Status of the RAN Kaman SH-2G(A) helos?

[Aussie Digger]

The SH-2G has a greater power to weight ratio than the Seahawk,I've seen the RNZAF SH-2G display team on a No. of occasions + it is no slug in the air. Its also capable of being loaded with a variety of pylon stores, but these are dependant on the requirements of the user-The RNZAF worked jointly with kaman to enable the Seasprites in service to carry mavericks that we bought new(why didnt they use the stock left over from the A-4K's? can someone shed some light..?!?).

I cant vouch for the RAN birds, I do belive they were meant to have a more comprehensive sensor package than the kiwi ones.
The RNZAF SH-2G's dont utilise any kind of sonar(kinda like the wasps) instead they rely on the ANZAC(nz) class to provide sonar plots + detect conacts with their Sephiron B sonar system which is barely adequate for that kind of work.

RAN SH-2G(A)'s only have limited ASW capability with their radar system providing the primary targetting system. It's designed primarily for ASuW (ie: maritime strike in open ocean and littorals) and OTH targetting for RAN Harpoon II, ESSM and SM-I/II.

RAN doesn't need a greater ASW platform, it's got Seahawk, widely regarded as amongst, if not the best ASW helo's in the world.

 

[Boolag]

RAN SH-2G(A)'s only have limited ASW capability with their radar system providing the primary targetting system. It's designed primarily for ASuW (ie: maritime strike in open ocean and littorals) and OTH targetting for RAN Harpoon II, ESSM and SM-I/II.

RAN doesn't need a greater ASW platform, it's got Seahawk, widely regarded as amongst, if not the best ASW helo's in the world.

Dont worry, I was'nt trying to suggest that the seasprite is capable of upsurping the seahawk in its given roles, just that it is a capable( and well regarded) aircraft...when built properly!!!

 

[rossfrb_1]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19248168-31477,00.html
"Navy's $1bn copter deal back on board
Patrick Walters, National security editor
May 25, 2006
THE navy is now expected to press ahead with its troubled $1billion Seasprite helicopter program following a high-level defence review.

Defence Minister Brendan Nelson has received a departmental options paper on the future of the Seasprite program, which is running five years late.

It is understood Defence's preferred option is continuing with the program at an additional cost of between $100million and $200million, rather than junking the acquisition and looking for a new anti-shipping helicopter for the ANZAC-class frigates.

Dr Nelson told The Australian last week the time had come to look at what was involved in "getting out of the program", adding that software problems associated with the aircraft's flight system had led to its temporary grounding. "You could not have 100 per cent confidence in the software program that supports the pilot flying the helicopter to 100per cent safety," he said.

Dr Nelson's comments prompted an urgent high-level visit to Canberra this week by senior executives from the helicopter's manufacturer, US-based Kaman Aerospace Corporation. Dr Nelson declined to meet the delegation, which included the president of Kaman helicopters, Sol Borondaro, and engineering chief Michael Bowes.

But after three days of discussions with defence officials, including a robust exchange with Defence Materiel Organisation chief Stephen Gumley on Monday, Kaman executives are confident the Seasprites are on track for delivery in 2006-07.

Defence has received assurances from Kaman that software problems associated with the Seasprite's air data computer will be rectified within weeks.

"We expect to meet 100 per cent of what the commonwealth contracted," a Kaman executive said.

Ten Seasprites have been delivered to the navy's 805 Squadron based at Nowra, on the NSW south coast, with testing of the integrated software due to start next month.

A Kaman spokesman said: "We believe we could deliver the full mission capability this year."

I'm starting to wonder whether this whole episode has been stage managed by Minister Nelson, to put a rocket up Kaman and achieve a speedier resolution for the project. Interesting that he didn't meet with the Kaman delegation...

rb

 

[Aussie Digger]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19248168-31477,00.html
"Navy's $1bn copter deal back on board
Patrick Walters, National security editor
May 25, 2006
THE navy is now expected to press ahead with its troubled $1billion Seasprite helicopter program following a high-level defence review.

Defence Minister Brendan Nelson has received a departmental options paper on the future of the Seasprite program, which is running five years late.

It is understood Defence's preferred option is continuing with the program at an additional cost of between $100million and $200million, rather than junking the acquisition and looking for a new anti-shipping helicopter for the ANZAC-class frigates.

Dr Nelson told The Australian last week the time had come to look at what was involved in "getting out of the program", adding that software problems associated with the aircraft's flight system had led to its temporary grounding. "You could not have 100 per cent confidence in the software program that supports the pilot flying the helicopter to 100per cent safety," he said.

Dr Nelson's comments prompted an urgent high-level visit to Canberra this week by senior executives from the helicopter's manufacturer, US-based Kaman Aerospace Corporation. Dr Nelson declined to meet the delegation, which included the president of Kaman helicopters, Sol Borondaro, and engineering chief Michael Bowes.

But after three days of discussions with defence officials, including a robust exchange with Defence Materiel Organisation chief Stephen Gumley on Monday, Kaman executives are confident the Seasprites are on track for delivery in 2006-07.

Defence has received assurances from Kaman that software problems associated with the Seasprite's air data computer will be rectified within weeks.

"We expect to meet 100 per cent of what the commonwealth contracted," a Kaman executive said.

Ten Seasprites have been delivered to the navy's 805 Squadron based at Nowra, on the NSW south coast, with testing of the integrated software due to start next month.

A Kaman spokesman said: "We believe we could deliver the full mission capability this year."

I'm starting to wonder whether this whole episode has been stage managed by Minister Nelson, to put a rocket up Kaman and achieve a speedier resolution for the project. Interesting that he didn't meet with the Kaman delegation...

rb

It's about time someone put a rocket up them. Despite Defence's well publicised procurement problems, at the beginning of this they put out a tender with certain specific requirements. Kaman replied that they could meet it with this helo. The onus IS on them to get it right.

Now defence might have written a contract that was barely worth the paper it was written on and put people in charge of this program who couldn't organise a shag in a brothel with a "fist full of fifties", however Kaman have said they COULD do it. Time to put the "helo" where there mouth is, or admit failure and give defence it's Billion dollars back...

If it didn't seem possible that they could, RAN would be flying Lynx's by now...

 

[erich hartman]

i dont understand why there would be any software probs afterall, this is nothing new, all modern aircraft have sophisticated computer systems and fly by wire stuff.

one of the probs with the seasprite is that it's a medium sized helo of 6 tons compared to a seahawk's 10 tons.
their trying to stuff so much electronic junk and computer systems and sensors into a limited space and they cant fit everything in so they had to modify and rearrage everything...............this may be where all the probs started.

the original people who made the decision to get this helo didn't think things thru.

 

[rossfrb_1]

http://tinyurl.com/nxg8e

[SIZE=-1]Date Posted: 28-Jul-2006 [/SIZE]​

[SIZE=-1] JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - AUGUST 02, 2006 [/SIZE] Kaman 'close to completing' RAN Seasprites

Michael J Gething Jane's Air Desk Contributing Editor
London
US helicopter manufacturer Kaman has brushed aside recent adverse comments from the Australian government and insists it will be ready to offer the SH-2G(A) Super Seasprite for acceptance by the end of 2006.
Despite having 10 SH-2G(A)s grounded in Australia, Kaman 'is very close to completing its contractual requirements' to the Royal Australian Navy (RAN), Mel French of Kaman Helicopters told Jane's on 19 June.
The aircraft were grounded in May 2006, with Australia's Defence Minister Brendan Nelson citing continuing software and technical problems, which, he said, had degraded safety to a point where flight operations had to be banned.
The RAN SH-2G(A) programme's troubles have centred around delays in the development of fully compliant software for the Integrated Tactical Avionics System (ITAS). However, the ITAS entered Formal Qualification Testing at Kaman's subcontractor, CSC-Australia, in Sydney on 8 June. The testing, which is being witnessed by the customer, is going well and, according to French, is expected to be completed 'in a matter of weeks'.
The ITAS offers an impressive system and weapon-management capability that will enable a two-man crew to perform complex missions that would otherwise require a crew of three or four to complete.
'The state-of-the-art sensors and the weapon system have been tested through full flight testing,' French said.
'We are working very closely with the [government] to complete the remaining tasks of the contract.'
Referring to the 'anomalous flight condition' attributed to the aircraft's airspeed sensor that resulted in grounding of the aircraft, French is adamant that it had no connection with the ITAS. The cause of the anomaly has been traced to a hardware glitch and replacement components are now being installed on the 10 aircraft in Australia.
Meanwhile, Kaman has the full through-life support system for the helicopter in place in Australia, much of it coming through the Australian Industry Involvement (AII) element of the contract. According to French, the company will come in AUD100 million (USD185 million) over its AUD230 million AII commitment.
In addition, Kaman has borne the full cost overruns on the whole programme, which French declined to quantify. However, local industry sources suggest this to be in the region of USD100 million.
Following resolution of the airspeed sensor issue and completion of final flight acceptance testing, French told Jane's that 'a full mission-capable capability helicopter will be presented to the [Australian Government] for acceptance this year'.
Australia's Super Seasprite saga
The Royal Australian Navy (RAN) selected Kaman's SH-2G(A) Super Seasprite, to be remanufactured from ex-US Navy SH-2F models, in January 1997 for use on its eight new ANZAC-class frigates. The first helicopter made its first flight on 6 January 2000 and was delivered in early March 2001. Deliveries began on a pre-acceptance basis in March 2001 with provisional acceptance by October 2003.
However, development of fully compliant mission software was delayed by technical problems with the Integrated Tactical Avionics System (ITAS) encountered by originator Litton. Kaman then contracted with Northrop Grumman and CSC-Australia to complete the ITAS software development. Although passing its critical design review in March 2003, leading to delivery of fully compliant mission system in late 2004, there were still integration problems.
The first aircraft was provisionally accepted into RAN service for initial pilot and shipboard interface training, along with logistics integration, on 18 October 2003.
By July 2004, the RAN had received 10 Super Seasprites and Kaman reported "completing delivery" in March 2005. Eight aircraft then became operational in ITH (interim training helicopter) configuration, with handover of first fully operational machine then targeted for mid-year. However, by October 2005 the in-service date had slipped again to first quarter 2006 due to the need for additional testing of avionics software.
In May, Australian Defence Minister Brendan Nelson told said that Super Seasprite flight operations had been banned.
Not-so-spritely Seasprite plan still off course (jdw.janes.com, 01/08/05)



Now if you look at the chronology of this, the initial technologies involved would be from 1999.
Granted there has been a lot of tinkering done since, but are the legacy systems still circa 99?
If the RAN is lucky, it may have an operational fleet in 2007. I would imagine that technologically a lot has changed in eight years?



rb

 

[flyboyEB]

I can update the status:
Seasprites cancelled on safety grounds (The Australian, 5 March 2008)

'A DECISION to cancel the troubled Seasprite helicopter project, after it has already cost taxpayers up to $1.3 billion, was made on safety grounds alone, Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon said today.

Mr Fitzgibbon said that after a review, the Government had concluded it had no real choice but to cancel the deal, which is now running 10 years late.

"The project had to be cancelled on safety grounds alone," he said.

"The airworthiness and crash worthiness of the aircraft was not up to 21st century standards and it was pretty clear the capability was not likely to be delivered in full.

"Even if it were, it would be another three years and therefore a decade late.

"Capability has moved on so much since then. It's like going to the 2018 Bathurst race with a 2008 Holden."

Under the deal signed in 1997, the navy was to acquire 11 Kaman Seasprite helicopters equipped with modern flight control systems and advanced radar and weapons systems. The first were to be delivered in 2001.

They were to operate from the navy's Anzac frigates.

The helicopters would have had old but refurbished airframes, some dating from the 1960s.

But developing the advanced combat system proved difficult, as did fitting the flight control system, and the project was plagued by delays.

Mr Fitzgibbon said the former coalition government made a decision in May last year to persevere with the project, placing its own political interests ahead of the interests of defence and the taxpayer.

"Importantly, $26 million has been spent on the project since May last year," he said.

"I questioned whether they followed the process which delivered the best value for the taxpayer and the Australian Defence Force."

Mr Fitzgibbon said Australia had already spent $950 million on the project.

"When you add the Penguin missile project to it, we are getting up towards around $1.3 billion," he said.

Australia has already bought the missiles, which are in storage.

Mr Fitzgibbon said that as an interim measure, efforts would be made to boost the navy's fleet of 16 Seahawk helicopters.

The upcoming defence White Paper would examine future options, with the naval version of the NH-90 helicopter, now entering army service, a strong contender to replace the Seahawks, Seasprites and Sea Kings.

Opposition defence spokesman Nick Minchin said the Opposition accepted today's decision, although some important questions remained about the costs of exiting the contract and the potential gap to naval aviation capability.

He said the Seasprite project was initiated by the Keating Labor government in 1994, with tenders let in 1995. The Howard government inherited the project in 1996 and the contract was signed in 1997.

"Over time the government became increasingly concerned about the prime contractor's ability to deliver the contracted capability."

Senator Minchin said former defence minister, now Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson, recommended to the National Security Committee (NSC) of Cabinet last year that the project be cancelled.

"Given the near $1 billion that had been invested in the project, NSC reluctantly decided to continue with the project with strict performance milestones," he said.

"If Mr Fitzgibbon is correct in his view that those performance milestones have not been met, the opposition supports his decision to cancel the contract."'

So there you go, the Seasprite is gone. Not sure whether to :lol2 or :wah

 

[gf0012-aust]

Senator Minchin said former defence minister, now Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson, recommended to the National Security Committee (NSC) of Cabinet last year that the project be cancelled.

"Given the near $1 billion that had been invested in the project, NSC reluctantly decided to continue with the project with strict performance milestones," he said.

"If Mr Fitzgibbon is correct in his view that those performance milestones have not been met, the opposition supports his decision to cancel the contract."'

Minchins a smart boy, he knows that the milestones have been met and that it leaves him (ipso facto, Nelson) in the clear. Kaman will seek legal redress if they can also point out that there has been no milestone failures since the NSC obligos were set.

Fitzgibbon has just given himself a headache - even though the view was leaning towards kaman being a sacrificial cow....

 

[alexsa]

Fitzgibbon has just given himself a headache - even though the view was leaning towards kaman being a sacrificial cow....

and a yawning capability gap given thye don't seem to have a solution that will be in place any time soon.

I think the "Keating Seaspite" will prove to be more of an embarassment to the ALP than they currently realise, particularly givne the money that has been spent. I could be wrong but they would have been better off getting it into service (if Karman were to be beleived that was quite close with the exception of the dual digital FCS) and replacing it sooner rather than later. This would at least allow time for the NH90 to be assessed and provide the extra capability for the ANZAC.