Status of German K130 Corvettes
- Thread starter JBodnar39
- Start date
The "Braunschweig" (first of class) is conducting sea trials at the moment and will probably service early next year with her sisters following according to their delivery dates.
Official statements have not yet been made about when and how many Type 143A "Gepard" FACs will be phased out of service. The Marine says the K-130 doesn't replace the Gepard-Class but is an all new kind of vessel for the German navy.
Official statements have not yet been made about when and how many Type 143A "Gepard" FACs will be phased out of service. The Marine says the K-130 doesn't replace the Gepard-Class but is an all new kind of vessel for the German navy.
Official planning from last year puts two K130 (F260 Braunschweig and F261 Magdeburg) in service by the end of 2007. That presumably means December, so we'll see em in service 2008. 
Braunschweig and Magdeburg are both conducting sea trials. F262 Erfurt is being built, and should launch sometime this year. F263 Oldenburg and F264 Ludwigshafen are supposed to be laid down sometime this year. Planned full in-service time for all five units is sometime around 2009.
All 10 Type 143A "Gepard" will stay in service until at least 2011-2012. The current batch of five K130 are officially replacing the already decommissioned 10 Type 143 "Albatros".
Braunschweig and Magdeburg are both conducting sea trials. F262 Erfurt is being built, and should launch sometime this year. F263 Oldenburg and F264 Ludwigshafen are supposed to be laid down sometime this year. Planned full in-service time for all five units is sometime around 2009.
All 10 Type 143A "Gepard" will stay in service until at least 2011-2012. The current batch of five K130 are officially replacing the already decommissioned 10 Type 143 "Albatros".
Where did you get that information? It's pretty much contrary to what I read and I never heard this before.
And here a picture of the "Braunschweig".
[img=http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/2017/k130braunschweigbg8.th.jpg]
Nice little ship.
[img=http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/2017/k130braunschweigbg8.th.jpg]
Nice little ship.
that the Type 143A will stay in service? Bundeswehr Budget Plan 2007, from March 2006.
EDIT: dang, not allowed to post URLs before reaching 15 posts. The above plan was leaked to the press, and is available on geopowers [dot] com (in German).
Clearly states that all Type 143A stay in service well beyond the commissioning of the K130s. The Type 143 were decommissioned in the last 2-3 years, with 6 or so sold to Tunisia, and the other 4 kept as spare parts providers for the Type 143A.
Thanks for the link (at the moment I don't have the time to search it, however). My last information was that the Gepards will be in service until 2014 (2nd batch of K-130s?), but that remains very uncertain. The information policy of the Marine is as poor as ever
As to the picture: I can't help it, I think the Braunschweig looks cute somehow, not like a mean fighting machine...
I'm struggling a bit with this statement however. This may be correct from an organisational and financial point of view, but it is stated again and again that the K-130 is a whole new "Seekriegsmittel" for the Marine. So from an operational point of view I think it's not a replacement for the "Albatrros" FACs, but a whole new class of ships while another (outdated) is phased out. But perhaps I'm nitpicking nowkato said:
As to the picture: I can't help it, I think the Braunschweig looks cute somehow, not like a mean fighting machine...
Roughly what my information is too - 2nd batch of K130 or a different class to replace the Gepard. But before 2013, there definitely won't be any funding available for procuring these.
It's a "whole new thing" for the Marine since they have never operated ships of this size (not counting those British sloops used for training in the 50s and 60s).I'm struggling a bit with this statement however. This may be correct from an organisational and financial point of view, but it is stated again and again that the K-130 is a whole new "Seekriegsmittel" for the Marine. So from an operational point of view I think it's not a replacement for the "Albatrros" FACs, but a whole new class of ships while another (outdated) is phased out. But perhaps I'm nitpicking now
Effectively, the K130 are a replacement to the FACs since:
- they have the same primary mission - patrol in the Baltic Sea, and perhaps patrol support in peacekeeping operation (though technically the F125 will do that in the long run).
- they still have the same ASuW-focused armament that the Gepard and Albatros had, along with the same self-defence AAW suite pretty much, and "less" electronics than the frigates.
- they address the problem the Marine has always had with the FACs, which is that the Gepard and Albatros - especially for long overseas missions - were small and crowded.
I can definitely see enough similarities to rate it a "replacement" there
The K130 though will be a bit more capable of doing missions alone (with one K130 replacing an old FAC "Rotte" operationally). If they ever buy the drones, they'll also be capable of a far wider mission spectrum for surveillance/patrol tasks. And there's the dual-mode seeker on the RBS 15 for land-attack.
contedicavour
New Member
Any plans for export ?
Originally R&D and fixed costs were planned to be shared on many more than 5 ships. If the German Navy can't buy more, then there's only one way out : export it...
cheers
Originally R&D and fixed costs were planned to be shared on many more than 5 ships. If the German Navy can't buy more, then there's only one way out : export it...
cheers
The K130 is a modified Meko A-100 design, which has also been sold to Malaysia (Kedah class) and Poland (Project 621, Gawron class).
The Malaysian ships are outfitted as OPVs with a lot of "fitted for but not with" (including RAM and Exocet; they'll only carry a 76mm and a 30mm gun). Two units built in Germany are in service, four more units are building in local yards. The order has been troubled by the quality control issues in the locally built units (apparently two of those failed their sea trials). Malaysia has allocated something like 7.5 billion dollar to the project for a total of 27 planned units. They're smaller than the K130, at 1650 tons.
The Polish units are outfitted similarly to the K130 (heavier armament: VLS with 32 ESSM, 8 Harpoon, 76mm + 35mm CIWS) and will apparently have a similar role. 2 units ordered, 3 more on option. Slightly larger than K130 at 2050 tons, and the hangar supports a light helicopter (which was specifically omitted in the K130 in favour of drones).
look at it like this, planned potential procurement only went from 47 to 37 units.
The K130 is a modified MEKO A-100, which has sold to Poland (1 unit, planning for 5 more, similar outfit to K130) and Malaysia (2 units, 4 building, 20 more planned, outfitted as OPV).
Make it 2xRAM
Is there something particular you're referring to? I couldn't find too much about the K-130's electronics besides the TRS-3D/16.
mmm... AFAIK at least a second batch of 5 is planned in the next decade.contedicavour said:
As far as export is concerned I think that in it's current configuration the K-130 is too expensive and not multi-role enough for export.
The K-130 is a very advanced ship: a highly capable (and very complex) combat management and fire control system, the very advanced integrated monitoring and control system with its battle damage control system, very high degree of automation, integrated bridge, ship intranet, data links 11 and 16, very strong firepower against surface (and land) targets with the RBS 15 Mk3, very, very strong self defence with the weapon systems mentioned above plus the all new multi ammonition softkill system and the UL-5000K ECM system. It's mainly made for anti surface warfare in high intensity conflicts with a secondary land attack role.
At the same time it doesn't have a hangar that's large enough to handle a Lynx-class helicopter, it is not exactly made for offshore patrol duties.
I think that many of these features will influence future MEKO designs, but for many countries I believe this ship represents a capability (and cost) overkill. Competition is strong in this segment. On the one side there are the classical off-the-shelf FACs and small corvettes, on the other side there are the multi-role capable light frigates. And there are the other (not as advanced but cheaper) corvettes like the Commandante-class and last but not least the bigger OPVs which are perfectly suitable for many roles.
I think those countries who can afford a ship like the K-130 build their own designs.
But perhaps we'll see a downgraded version on the export market some day...
The K130 is a modified MEKO A-100. Which went rather good as exports goes - the Polish Project 621 corvette is also based on it (similarly high-grade version as the K130), as well as the Malaysian Kedah class (low-grade version as OPVs, planned for 26 units!).
The Project 621 is slightly heavier, and carries Harpoon, VLS ESSM, and similar combat management systems to K130 (a lot of Thales hardware iirc). And, unlike for the K130, their hangar is rated for a light helo. One unit is building, original planning was for 6 units - though its doubtful more than 2 will be built iirc.
The Kedah class is basically a MEKO A-100 stripped of anything but the bare minimum. Will carry a 76mm and a 30mm gun regular, and "fitted for but not with" RAM and Exocet. Malaysia has allocated an awesome amount of money for the project, around 5 billion euro iirc (meaning these OPVs aren't really that much cheaper than the K130 - Germany is spending 1.2 billion on the first batch of 5). Two Kedahs are commissioned, two in sea trials, two are building, about 20 more planned.
I'm pretty sure contedicavour knows that and was referring particularly to the K-130.
I wouldn't wonder if these were reclassified as "light frigates", I remember the A-200 SANs being called "corvettes" in the first place
Mods, sorry for double-posting.
If your numbers are correct, that means 240 million € per unit for the K-130 and about 190 million € for the Kedah (which is truely awesome for a country like Malaysia). If that ain't expensive, I don't know. If I take into account that much of the K-130's technology is derived from the F124, the ECM system is derived from the F100's system, the radar is "off-the-shelf" and the hull is based on the MEKO A-100, that sounds even more to me.
And IIRC the Baynunah class were to cost around 140 million $ per unit and the Super Vitas for Greece around 180 million $ each. Both are smaller but provide good capabilities, I think.
Last edited:
The Fixed-Prize Contract for the 27 planned Kedahs, was RM24.3 billion under the 1998 contract apparently. The yard is trying to get another RM1.8 billion.
1998 exchange rate was 4.2 ringgit per dollar, meaning a total of 5.7 billion dollar for the contract, or 212 million for each ship. Definitely including development costs, plus a transfer payment to Blohm & Voss, and probably some initial support package, as well as missile outfits for at least some, i'd say.
The contract for the actually ordered units so far (6 units, first 2 built in Germany, assembled in Malaysia; the other 4 building in Malaysia) was RM5.6 billion, or 1.3 billion dollar - 220 million per ship approximately. Ordering for the second batch of six, despite problems with the first ships, is very likely.
Afaik, the RMN wants to replace about all their (two dozen?) FACs and (one dozen?) corvettes with these OPVs.
As for the cost of the K130, what's keeping it down (in comparison) is that a lot of the development cost was completely shafted to other projects (F124 in particular), budgetwise. And as for export of the specific K130 design itself... doubt it very much. The project was originally planned for 15 units just for Germany, and a second batch of 5, with modifications, is still extremely likely (the Gepard FACs really needs to be replaced next decade, they're approaching 40 years by then, no way to put that off).
As German ships go (recently), the K130 can be considered cheap. Very cheap.
And going back to the "K130 is not a replacement for Albatros operationally": The K130 is planned to fill the exact same roles that the Albatros and Gepard did in the last decade. Patrol, embargo control within peacekeeping missions, limited surveillance, ASuW. They were even designed/specified especially to address the shortcomings of the FACs in these roles (cramped accomodations, bad seakeeping in open water, problems with operations in warm high-salt water), which were evaluated after the Horn of Africa mission, in which three Albatros and three Gepard (iirc) took part. What's added to that is a - minor - land-attack/fire-support capability, mostly with RBS-15.
edit: oh, and K130 electronics...
The K130 is supposed to have:
- Thales TRS-3D/16 (as known)
- Thales Mirador (electro-optical sensor suite; infrared/optical horizon search, plus tracking, mostly iirc; two systems per ship)
- a "Combat Direction System" (integrates the various ship management functions; includes a redesigned Mission Planning & Control System from the F124)
- a EADS EW system (unspecified)
- an active ECM jammer (unspecified)
- Link 11, Link 16; NATO MCCIS and CaS integration
- an ESM system (UL5000K, modified from "Aldebaran" on Spanish F100 frigates)
- Rheinmetall MASS (soft-kill chaff)
- SPERRY Marine Bridgemaster E series navigation radar (2 units per ship?)
the only things that apparently changed in the above list from the original specs is the UL5000K ("new requirements"), some changes in the Link 11/16 hardware ("modernized version available, use new version"), modified IFF/AIS ("new safety standards since 2004"), and of course the land-attack capability for the RBS-15 (Mk 4 seeker, yet to be developed).
Last edited:
AFAIK the UL-5000K system integrates both EW and ECM jammer functions (at least that's what they say in "Marineforum 7/8-2006").
I'd put the term "Combat Direction System" in quotes, too... and decided I find combat management and control system much more accurate. The old question of how to translate terms like "FüWeS"
Hmm, right, didn't notice that. The newest ETMS (the Thales/EADS joint venture developing it) brochure lists the UL-5000K twice, once as ECM (under effectors), once as ESM (under sensors).
K130-CDS is a bit more than that. According to ETMS, it integrates as subsystems "FüWeS", "FüInfoSys", "LogInfoSys", internally, and connects to all communication systems, ship automation (ICMS) and logistics (PCLOA) systems through firewalls.I'd put the term "Combat Direction System" in quotes, too... and decided I find combat management and control system much more accurate. The old question of how to translate terms like "FüWeS"
Of course, that's already been the case in the F124 and F123, so it's technically not really been a FüWeS anyway :wink:
Intention of the modularity of CDS is of course to keep the cost down - by using as many commercial off-the-shelf subsystem products as possible. Basis for the CDS is the same architecture (Thales Sigma Splice or w/e) as used on F124, and over half the subsystems are identical.
Sorta interesting btw is that the F122/F123 won't get Sigma Splice when they get their upgrades in a few years - understandable though, they'd probably have to pretty much rip it apart just to remove the components (F124 and K130 hardware is on semi-fixed modules).
as for a translation... EADS uses "Command & Control and Weapons Deployment System". rather unwieldy :wink:
(and, dang, this post turned long again >_>)