South Korean navy ship sunk by North?

[gf0012-aust]

The resolve of the man in the street in Korea will affect the future chess calculus.

and I think we're not seeing that there is enough public anger for the Govt to ramp up beyond rhetoric

And I ask that question again to you: Are the lives of S. Korean sailors are expendable? Just to get the thinking process started.

morally no - politically its a different question.

Note the I did not specify the nature of retaliation. I only suggested an escalation option, which is large scale civil defence exercises.

the NorK govt has a history of being able to successfully bluff their way in and out of UN imprimatur events.

do you strangle the population to strangle the govt?

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

To translate your statement/post = The lives of S. Korean sailors are expendable because of fear. Ironically, failure to retaliate increases the danger and likelihood of future N. Korean attacks.

Would you agree to the above simplification?

No, it has nothing to do with fear; it has everything to do with acting in South Korea's national interest. If this was a torp and not a mine then evidently this was a very deliberate act, and thus you have to consider the motive. What if Pyongyang ordered this SPECIFICALLY to elicit a military response purely for domestic consumption or as part of some internal power struggle? If that’s the case then not reacting militarily would weaken the regime rather than strengthen its resolve.

That’s what I mean I'm not sure if the normal rules of deterrence apply here, North Korea is a very unique security challenge. If a military reaction/escalation is what they want then why give it to them???

 

[OPSSG]

gf0012-aust thanks for the response on the policy dilemma.

...it has everything to do with acting in South Korea's national interest....

+1 that's what I did not get from reading the other posts. The recovery of strategic choices in service of national interest.

 

[fretburner]

I'd be dumbfounded if South Korea doesn't make ANY kind of response beyond making press conferences and crying to the UN. If they do nothing, the North will just keep on making these kinds of attacks. How many more lives are they going to give up before they actually retaliate?

At some point, one has to say, this cannot go on. Maybe they can drop a few bombs inside North Korea, maybe on the artillery pieces pointing at Seoul? They have new F-15Ks afterall. Or if that's way too loud, maybe sink a North Korean vessel with their own sneak attack?

The next move will be up to the North. Ugly chess game this is.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

The next move will be up to the North. Ugly chess game this is.

realpolitik allways is.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

+1 that's what I did not get from reading the other posts. The recovery of strategic choices in service of national interest.

Sorry, bit of a sore head at the moment. Putting coherent sentences together is surprisingly difficult.

 

[ccL1]

It's always been a chess game of global proportions - especially during the cold war. For me this incident a test for the citizens of S. Korea - it's their country and they have to decide their level of resolve. IMO, the resolve of the man in the street in Korea will affect the future chess calculus. S. Koreans need to decide what they can accept in N. Korean attacks and where is the line in the sand.

And I ask that question again to you: Are the lives of S. Korean sailors are expendable? Just to get the thinking process started.

Note that I did not specify the nature of retaliation. I only suggested an escalation option, which is large scale civil defence exercises.

To the government, they are expendable. Otherwise, in the face of all the evidence, they would have coordinated some kind of retaliatory response already and something harsher than public rebuke or cutting of economic/food aid. Peace has a high price (sometimes higher than even war), and I think we are seeing its costs right now.

Ask South Koreans on the street if they want to reunify. They definitely do, but not through a war. Same goes for the South Korean government. They have too much to lose and it's unfortunate that South Korea, a top 15 economy in the world, is bordering one of the poorest and most unstable countries in the world too. South Koreans and their government have long since prioritized peace and economics over militarism since the 1960s/1970s. For a good movie representing this, watch the movie Silmido. Great movie, based on a true story, and it's on Youtube as well!

 

[furymonkey]

Sorry for being off topic.

Does South Korea have any plan or solution to minimize the casualty from North Korea Artillery? Especially in major cities including Seoul.

 

[valice]

In the news have been response from the defence department and governmental responses.
What's the views of the men on the streets regarding the sinking?

 

[lopez]

if this is a north korean attack could that be indicative internal north koreran difficulties? could the regime in the north by tryig to provoke some form of retaliation (whatever the scale) to hold the nation together by giving the north korean regime some credibility?

or is the north seeing what it can get away with?

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

if this is a north korean attack could that be indicative internal north koreran difficulties? could the regime in the north by tryig to provoke some form of retaliation (whatever the scale) to hold the nation together by giving the north korean regime some credibility?

That’s what I’m thinking. This sort of thing doesn't usually happen by accident.

 

[dongsoola]

yah. this sort of things doesnt happen by accident.

Yah. this sort of things doesnt happen by accident.

But somebody is hiding the truth.

Guess who. The lier is South Korea and US military. They are in this together.

South Korea military is not fully showing the recording at the time of incident .

The reason they say is that the recording reveals some top military secret.

This is strange, because they showed them all in the previous conflicts with North Korea at the west sea.

Only people who we can trust is the private investigator, but the military requested the court not to allow the lead of private investigators from participating.

All South Korean military ,US are trying to do right now is to find anything that can lead to the conclusion that its the North Korea who did it.

In other words, South Korean and US military is gonna conclude its the North Koreans' work no matter what happens.

Well. Then what really happened?

There are lots of strong evidences of what really happened especially on the wrecked ship.

But u will never hear it, because u are in US.

The ship first ran aground. This was already written on some kind of map that was made to explain the situation short time after the incident.

The captain of the sunken ship said that there was a sound of collision, not a sound of explosive. He also said there was no smell of explosive. just smell of gas.

The private investigators claim the ship made a collision with something very strong after it ran aground.

And guess what it is. its likely a US submarine.

US and Korean navy were doing some kind of exercise at the time, and they even found a picture of US submarine getting fixed a the time of incident.

So why are they doing this?

Anyone remember Korean airlines supposedly blown up by North Korea?

The evidence that this incident were done by North Korea were numerous.

Even the person who did it was caught and put on trial.

Well.. to explain why this was a total scam, its gonna require another page, but Korean airlines were definitely NOT blown up by North Korea.

The person who were caught were a young woman. She was forgiven and release after a while. She married a former Korean CIA agent, published even a book about it, and is living happily ever after. ( and she was a criminal who killed hundreds of innocent people )

Anyone with reasonable mind can see that Korean air line was total scam against North Korea.

But after that accident, North Korea suffered dearly.
North Korea was listed as one of terrorist countries.

It was used as a propaganda against North Korea all over the English world.

That's the same reason they are making this incident as from North Korea.

That's exactly what they are aiming for.

Dont follow blindly. Before u know it, u gonna be helping the Satan the Devil.

And dont tell anyone I said this, because 007 is going to find me and kill me in secret.

 

[Belesari]

Yah. this sort of things doesnt happen by accident.

LOL yea right so how is the dear reader these days lol.

North korea is a problem that shouldnt exist and wouldnt if not for the chinese protecting them. It ties down US forces we could use elsewhere and gives them a buffer zone.

Want to solve the nork problem look to china. Tell em to either get out of the way or help.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Yah. this sort of things doesnt happen by accident.

LOL yea right so how is the dear reader these days lol.

North korea is a problem that shouldnt exist and wouldnt if not for the chinese protecting them. It ties down US forces we could use elsewhere and gives them a buffer zone.

Want to solve the nork problem look to china. Tell em to either get out of the way or help.

Just let it go mate, it's not worth it.

 

[Belesari]

Just let it go mate, it's not worth it.

Yes but it feels so much like surrender......:mad

 

[dongsoola]

Just check out this map.

i wanna post the link to the map, but this board wont let me.

thisisgame.com/board/files/0/img/601-20100418005407_b5fcf03f.jpg

just add usual http www notation at the front.

that is the map that South Korean navy had drawn to explain the situation to the families of crews in the ship.

they even wrote what happened in Korean on the map.

it says "first run aground".

The US, and Australian people joined the investigation, and they are trying to conclude that this is something done by North Korea by whatever means.

Its terrible.

I feel like this news is going to shy away just like Robert Park's case. ha ha.

what a shame.

 

[dongsoola]

Yes but it feels so much like surrender......:mad

it's not surrender.

its about u are checking and checking again to see who u are shooting before u kill someone.

u wanna do something right and honorable.

if u dont do that its simply a wargame to kill innocent people.

 

[Preceptor]

it's not surrender.

its about u are checking and checking again to see who u are shooting before u kill someone.

u wanna do something right and honorable.

if u dont do that its simply a wargame to kill innocent people.

Please provide some credible proof or evidence of what you seem to claiming or suggesting.

At present, you have made the claim that the US and Australian governments are involved in a conspiracy to falsely 'prove' that North Korea is responsible for the loss of a South Korean naval vessel and personnel. This would also require the Canadian and Swedish personnel involved in investigating the incident to be at least complacent if not outright cooperation.

Given that Defence Talk is not a site for conspiracy theories, provide proof of these claims or retract them. Additionally, an image file located on a website with someone's finger pointing to ship positions does not consitute proof. If the file was hosted by an official South Korean government website, that would give some credibility. At present, it has none.
-Preceptor

 

[stryker NZ]

It looks like they may have found a torpedo prop fragment on the ship.

Metal fragments collected from ship sinking site

YONHAP NEWS

More evidence N.Korea behind ship sinking: reports - Yahoo! News

 

[dongsoola]

thats not just proof.

its an evidence that is fully presentable in court.

there are a lot more evidence like that actually.

u dont get to these stuff only because u are in US.

hold on. I will show u more later.