Singaporean NS for oversea's people

[NS088]

Calling all Singaporeans that have served or are going to serve their NS that live OVERSEAS.

Few question's for some to answer

Which is a good site to look at the current induction process for overseas nationals?

How would someone go about in finding information on NS?

What is the process of the application of university in the overseas country while having to go to NS? (Do u apply first to the uni overseas then go to NS? or leave it till after?)

The current standards of fitness that the NS needs? (how far to run, how many pushups etc...)

Would the army try to put foreign nationals together in one group or would they split them up?

Would any credentials help in the process? (I personally am currently learning flying in the Royal Aero Club of Western Australia, would it help?)

I know that this may be a touchy subject for some, but as living overseas information doesn't really come over quickly to me. (if there are any threads on this, i'm sorry.)

 

[gf0012-aust]

I've sent an email to a Singaporean journo I know involved with mil issues. Hopefully he will see this and reply.

gf

 

[NS088]

Thank's for your helpgf0012-aust . They never seem to send the info quick enough for overseas citizens.:

 

[gary1910]

Here some websites that provide you with some answers:

The official SG Mindef website with links to matter regarding NS:

w w w.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/home.html

Here one local forum(unofficial) with all things abt NS for NSF, NSmen Regulars and even for pre-enlistee like you, maybe there will be someone there that could help you.

w w w.sgforums.com/?action=forum_display&forum_id=1390

PS:I just found out I could not post url, so you have to copy and paste the above url into your broswer and delete the spaces between w.

 

[gary1910]

Here the website of Singapore High Commission to Australia in Canberra, from there I think there will be someone that could help you too.

w w w.mfa.gov.sg/canberra/

 

[aniki]

Calling all Singaporeans that have served or are going to serve their NS that live OVERSEAS.

Few question's for some to answer

Which is a good site to look at the current induction process for overseas nationals?

How would someone go about in finding information on NS?

What is the process of the application of university in the overseas country while having to go to NS? (Do u apply first to the uni overseas then go to NS? or leave it till after?)

The current standards of fitness that the NS needs? (how far to run, how many pushups etc...)

Would the army try to put foreign nationals together in one group or would they split them up?

Would any credentials help in the process? (I personally am currently learning flying in the Royal Aero Club of Western Australia, would it help?)

I know that this may be a touchy subject for some, but as living overseas information doesn't really come over quickly to me. (if there are any threads on this, i'm sorry.)

all official info can be obtain from mindef as someone had already posted.

for the 'unofficial' part, you will first go for a simple medical checkup to determine fitness level, check for previous injuries/operations/allegies or current illness (asthma, heart problem etc). sex orientation will also be question, whether you are gay or not, that is. if you say you are they'll probably probe more into it and 'might' arrange constant counselling to 'straighten you up', since homosexual is illegal in the country.
some people may sometimes give fake info if they want to opt for a lighter posting, while some others may act tough to get to a serious unit. but be warned, false info could be penalised if found out.

after that you will be categorised accordingly, generally its A+ for commando/ranger fit, A for combat fit(trooper, PT trainer, tankie), B for combat fit with slight deficiencies (wear glasses or slightly overweight, usually get to go arty or armour), C for past illness or injuries (logistics, quartermasters, ammo store, medic store, vech mechanics etc, sometimes even the musical band if you can play an instrument or two), E for generally unfit (clerks, general store, CO's runner or maybe cooks). F grade and you are free from service, usually those with heart problem or mental illness.

all freshmen will go for a 3 mths basic training, same courses but difficulty level tuned according to fitness level. of course, they group people with similiar fitness together. example A+ to B people have to go obstacle courses with full gear(boots, backpack, rifle) while C people simply in tees and PT shoes. after that they will be posted to different units for further training. could be a few more months in the commando, almost a yr in Officer Cadet School, or 10 weeks or so for other vocations. But foreigners will usually be given lighter and less sensitive postings, common sense.

as for fitness exercise qualifications, no requirements before enlistment. but after you got in, they run simple tests to determine. 2400m run under 9 mins, 50 or more sit-ups/min, 12 or more pullups in one go will definitely get you top scores. over 12 mns in the running, or under 30 in situps, or under 6 in pullups will probably fail you, but they will give you extra training to improve on them. these are all for the locals and i have doubts whether foreigners will be subjected to equal requirements. one more thing, you got to know how to swim, at least 2 pool lengths will be good.

basically thats it. flying skills probably wont help cos i think they are not going to let foreigners fly their planes. but thats also an indication that you are fit for most things.

whether they arrange foreigners together or mixed them up with the locals, no idea...

 

[NS088]

But foreigners will usually be given lighter and less sensitive postings, common sense.

But what if i go there, and they ask me to drop my aus citizenship (for sum reason - i know u can't drop it till your 21 i heard), will that help me in any way to go into more sensitive area's? or will i always be considered 'a foreigner'?

 

[dave_kiwi]

But what if i go there, and they ask me to drop my aus citizenship (for sum reason - i know u can't drop it till your 21 i heard), will that help me in any way to go into more sensitive area's? or will i always be considered 'a foreigner'?

Interesting dilemma

I face a similiar issue with my Singaporean born son. I am a 'PR", New Zealander, and my son was born in Singapore --> NZ Citizen.

If we stay in Singapore until he is 15 -- highly likely - he will as far as I can gather, be "tagged for NS. (As all second gen PRs are). I have alot of questions (though doing the actual NS doesnt worry me, think it will be good for him) - but its really hard to get any answers.

Just wish Singapore would sort out / come around to allowing dual citizenship

 

[NS088]

after that you will be categorised accordingly, generally its A+ for commando/ranger fit, A for combat fit(trooper, PT trainer, tankie), B for combat fit with slight deficiencies (wear glasses or slightly overweight, usually get to go arty or armour), C for past illness or injuries (logistics, quartermasters, ammo store, medic store, vech mechanics etc, sometimes even the musical band if you can play an instrument or two), E for generally unfit (clerks, general store, CO's runner or maybe cooks).

So if u have glasses, u can't get an A grade, even though your fit enough to get an A? - I'm allowed to fly with my glasses because its very minimal (only 125 degree's set for short sight) - So would it effect me?

 

[aniki]

But what if i go there, and they ask me to drop my aus citizenship (for sum reason - i know u can't drop it till your 21 i heard), will that help me in any way to go into more sensitive area's? or will i always be considered 'a foreigner'?

well, its up to the descrepancy of the bosses.

i would imagine a few scenarios, a) u get to mix with the locals and get normal postings like them, b) u get to mix with foreigners and get 'special posting' with them too. or c) maybe there's too little foreigners joining the SAF, so u get to mix with locals, but given special postings.

the third is highly possible i think, u probably end up a 'safe' post as the CO's runner or some clerk. but that's just my opinion basically, not necessary the truth. i bet they wouldnt want to cause a commotion if anything happens to a foreigner in the field.

if u are a graduate, however, it would be most certain that they'll give you a easy basic training and send you to officer course. see they dun often get graduates joining them, and it would be a waste to place he or she in some low level command.

and you are right, with glasses but good fitness, max u can go is B, and usually get posted to armour or arty (pretty tough, either u run in and out of the IFV multiple times or u carry shells, practice loading and reloading). and u cant be gunner too, cos glasses cant fit into the looking glass/periscope/optics whatever. maybe with contact lenses they may allow, but i wouldnt bet on that. i was A for fitness but was sent to logistics becos of very poor eyesight, even when i got 5mm groupings(yeah, the bullet holes overstack each other) at 100m. but it was pretty easy job and i went through it pretty relaxed.

As for the passport thingy, i think they dont allow dual citizenship, if u plan to stay there for some time. i would still think that u wont get into sensitive areas like the air force, or subs or the newest french frigates. but u might get to some other sensitive areas, for example the bosses offices in HQ mindef, if you are 'luckily' posted there. still 'sensitive' though, just not so much actions over there, unless u want to play james bond.

edit: missed the part u have only 125 degrees... wont get an A in my time but they have probably lowered the standards now. more and more singaporean wearing glasses u see. u might stand a slim chance. u want to go for it, just train up a bit and keep fit.

 

[aniki]

Interesting dilemma

I face a similiar issue with my Singaporean born son. I am a 'PR", New Zealander, and my son was born in Singapore --> NZ Citizen.

If we stay in Singapore until he is 15 -- highly likely - he will as far as I can gather, be "tagged for NS. (As all second gen PRs are). I have alot of questions (though doing the actual NS doesnt worry me, think it will be good for him) - but its really hard to get any answers.

Just wish Singapore would sort out / come around to allowing dual citizenship

well, wont happen due to historical background. anyway to the singaporean govt, people from 'more hostile' countries probably outnumbered those from 'less hostile' ones among long-term foreigners in singapore. they wouldnt want to risk it. chinese saying, throw away the melon for a few sesame...

 

[gary1910]

So if u have glasses, u can't get an A grade, even though your fit enough to get an A? - I'm allowed to fly with my glasses because its very minimal (only 125 degree's set for short sight) - So would it effect me?

If you are thinking of doing your NS as pilot , then I am sorry , RSAF pilot is only for regulars/professionals who have signed a contract, not for NSF.

As a NSF, your eventual vocation will be decided by Mindef, depending on your educational level, your performance during BMT, i.e. fitness level,leadership quality, aptitude etc.

If you really want to be a pilot , the only way is to sign on, I am not sure what is the miminum duration, I think it is a 8 years contract.

Even if you sign on, the drop out rate for pilot are pretty high and you may even be promoted as a officer depending on what stage of training that you are forced to drop out.

I am not very sure abt the whole thing, but I do know one who did not make it as a pilot and the contract was voided and he just serve what ever remaining time so to fulfil his NS obligation.

For more info, the best is to check out the Mindef website above.

Here the link for the requiremenet needed for pilot:

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/mindef_websites/atozlistings/air_force/careers/opportunities/pilot.html

 

[aniki]

yup thats right, pilots and possibly a large portion of the navy crew are for regulars. u have to sign on for a few years (max 12 if i'm not wrong). and again as a foreigner there is a chance u might end up with a 'not so much glory' trainer jet instead of a F16 or F15. but anyway the latter are for the most experienced pilots.

after ur service, if u actually succeeded in applying in the first place, u could get a job in commercial airlines, not a bad thing altogether.

 

[NS088]

and you are right, with glasses but good fitness, max u can go is B, and usually get posted to armour or arty (pretty tough, either u run in and out of the IFV multiple times or u carry shells, practice loading and reloading). and u cant be gunner too, cos glasses cant fit into the looking glass/periscope/optics whatever. maybe with contact lenses they may allow, but i wouldnt bet on that. i was A for fitness but was sent to logistics becos of very poor eyesight, even when i got 5mm groupings(yeah, the bullet holes overstack each other) at 100m. but it was pretty easy job and i went through it pretty relaxed.

Nice work shooter. So the jobs i would like to do in the armed forces are pretty much out of the question - bugger. But would the forces pay for laser eye surgery? - i would expect only if they really wanted you in a particular posting they would do it - coz i heard that if u can get into the RAAF, n your eye sight is still in the reasonable limit for flying, that they will most likely pay for laser eye surgery (a mate's brother - RAAF P3 pilot - heard of it happening quite alot - but only after you go past basic flying training)

 

[aniki]

ermmm, no, in fact it's probably out of question... the national service in singapore is an obligation, or 'compulsory'. so its the citizens responsibility to do it. if u cant make it on ur side, they'll just dump u to wadever position that fits ur profile. they are never short of personnel, since basically everyone, including the prime minister's son, got to do it.

i am not sure whether u signed on and they would pay for it, unless u are exceptionally good, maybe it could happen. but they wouldnt do it without any guarantee from u that u would stick with them. the government dont do business at losses...

and the other thing about lasec is that i'm pretty doubtful about it. one of my friends went to have one but suffers infections in one eye after that. operation is easy but recovering part has to be really carefull. 150 degrees is still pretty ok, u could probably see most things without glasses. i would seriously reconsider about taking the risk if i were u.

 

[gary1910]

Nice work shooter. So the jobs i would like to do in the armed forces are pretty much out of the question - bugger. But would the forces pay for laser eye surgery? - i would expect only if they really wanted you in a particular posting they would do it - coz i heard that if u can get into the RAAF, n your eye sight is still in the reasonable limit for flying, that they will most likely pay for laser eye surgery (a mate's brother - RAAF P3 pilot - heard of it happening quite alot - but only after you go past basic flying training)

Yes, I believe they are providing it now.

Here one link

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/safti/pointer/back/journals/2001/Vol27_3/1.htm

and I quote:

Another initiative is our pilot selection process. Singapore faces a serious myopia problem among its youth, with as many as 8 in 10 enlistees wearing glasses. To avail ourselves of a larger resource pool, we reviewed our eyesight criteria. The eyesight requirement used to be 100 degrees and below for all aircraft types. Now, we have different eyesight requirements for different aircraft types. The revised standard is 150 degrees for fighter and helicopter pilots and 300 degrees for transport pilots. In addition, we are now exploring laser eye surgery to correct the eyesight of some potential pilot trainees.

 

[aniki]

if it is so, then 150 degrees shouldnt be a problem, since the criteria is lowered. the only 2 barriers would probably be 'signing on' as regulars and the 'passport issue'. but ns008 would have an advantage since he is already having some training.

 

[kotay]

and you are right, with glasses but good fitness, max u can go is B, and usually get posted to armour or arty

I'm not quite sure this is correct. Wearing glasses (within a normal range) has no bearing on your PES status although it may restrict you from joining certain vocations that require good uncorrected vision. (eg. Pilots, Naval Divers, PAra Training)

Also the use of the term fitness to categorise PES status is misleading. IPPT or "Individual Physical Proficiency Test" measures your fitness. PES or "Physical Employment Status" is not a measure of your fitness but rather your medical/physical ability to perform certain groups of activities. The grouping of activities is defined by the following general PES levels:

PES A = Fit for all operational vocations.
PES B = Fit for most operational vocations. (Full BMT)
PES C = Fit for some operational vocations. (Modified BMT)
PES E = Fit for administrative duties only.
PES F = Unfit for any form of service. NS not required.

There are some finer subdivisions in the above scale but for simplicity I will not go into it.

Generally, even down to PES C, Servicemen are still considered eligible for field deployable units and even for front line duties. Although they will more likely be deployed to Combat Support Units (eg. Engineers, Arty) rather than Line Infantry units.

From my personal experience, examples of medical conditions that may excuse you from an infantry vocation may be something as simple as chronic sweaty palms. They fear you hand may slip on the trigger OTOH Poor eyesight requiring "Coke Bottle" glasses doesn't seem to cut it ... I had someone in my platoon with near 1000deg vision ... go figure.

At the end of the day, your PES grading is a subjective exercise. Factors such as manning requirements, size of your cohort, the mood of the reviewing Medical Officer and your ability to produce case history(s) from expensive specialist all play a part.

For example, I am bespectacled and asthmatic but am still PES A/IPPT Gold and in a Guards unit.

I also know of PES A people who can't pass their IPPT ... meaning that they are medically sound but physically unfit. I also know of PES C/E personnel who get Gold on their IPPT and play basketball after hours every day. Those bastards. Medically unfit my ass

 

[kotay]

But what if i go there, and they ask me to drop my aus citizenship (for sum reason - i know u can't drop it till your 21 i heard), will that help me in any way to go into more sensitive area's? or will i always be considered 'a foreigner'?

The gist of a discussion on a Singapore "expats" forum seems to be that while the official stand is that Dual citizenship is not allowed, in practice it seems to be a case of "don't get caught" and "ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies"

Do a google search for "Singapore dual citizenship" ... third entry down "Singapore Expats Forum".

 

[aniki]

I'm not quite sure this is correct. Wearing glasses (within a normal range) has no bearing on your PES status although it may restrict you from joining certain vocations that require good uncorrected vision. (eg. Pilots, Naval Divers, PAra Training)

Also the use of the term fitness to categorise PES status is misleading. IPPT or "Individual Physical Proficiency Test" measures your fitness. PES or "Physical Employment Status" is not a measure of your fitness but rather your medical/physical ability to perform certain groups of activities. The grouping of activities is defined by the following general PES levels:

PES A = Fit for all operational vocations.
PES B = Fit for most operational vocations. (Full BMT)
PES C = Fit for some operational vocations. (Modified BMT)
PES E = Fit for administrative duties only.
PES F = Unfit for any form of service. NS not required.

There are some finer subdivisions in the above scale but for simplicity I will not go into it.

Generally, even down to PES C, Servicemen are still considered eligible for field deployable units and even for front line duties. Although they will more likely be deployed to Combat Support Units (eg. Engineers, Arty) rather than Line Infantry units.

From my personal experience, examples of medical conditions that may excuse you from an infantry vocation may be something as simple as chronic sweaty palms. They fear you hand may slip on the trigger OTOH Poor eyesight requiring "Coke Bottle" glasses doesn't seem to cut it ... I had someone in my platoon with near 1000deg vision ... go figure.

At the end of the day, your PES grading is a subjective exercise. Factors such as manning requirements, size of your cohort, the mood of the reviewing Medical Officer and your ability to produce case history(s) from expensive specialist all play a part.

For example, I am bespectacled and asthmatic but am still PES A/IPPT Gold and in a Guards unit.

I also know of PES A people who can't pass their IPPT ... meaning that they are medically sound but physically unfit. I also know of PES C/E personnel who get Gold on their IPPT and play basketball after hours every day. Those bastards. Medically unfit my ass

well, if u want to know, beyond 400 and thats B. thats during my time. dont know if they changed it now. beyond 800 thats usually C, or even C2, which is my case. free from all exercises just becos i'm wearing glasses. i remember my platoon commander tried to 'help us improve our fitness' but was beaten by us during training. he thought pes C were all sick chickens. in the end he tried to upgrade us but failed. eyesight an other issues just couldnt meet the criteria.

as for those u called 'unfit', they are probably ex-sportsmen in high school and had some form of past injuries. 2 rugby guys were pes C under me, both mascular 6ft fellas, but had either broken kneecaps or dislocated arms in the past. also some other guys were national team players and the bosses dont want them to get unnecessary injuries during national service. most of my teammates in high school were volleyball players for the national team, and yeah, they play and have fun thruout NS.