Sexy French MBT

Waylander

Defense Professional
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You French really like light armored but powerfull armed vehicles definitely more than most of the other european countrys. I think this could be because of your experience in Africa.
Is this right?
 

tatra

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
cypress said:
Does not look like a "MBT". at the very start of the video the driver opens the hatch and the armor could not be much more than 1 inch thick. The M1 abrams has over 1ft (over 10cm) of armor in the front. It looks light and flimsy. More like a tank destroyer or a light tank. Reminds me of the old british crusader. Thats where everythings going though, light tanks that are fast but thin armor. I wouldent want to fight in one of those.
That's because the first few images show a crewman getting into a 6x6 WHEELED armoured vehicle, not the LeClerc MBT.
 

DoC_FouALieR

New Member
You French really like light armored but powerfull armed vehicles definitely more than most of the other european countrys. I think this could be because of your experience in Africa.
Is this right?
It is partially right. In France we have light armored divisions that are parts of our "foreign legion". Historically, these forces were created to recruit men from our settlements and to protect them.
Since we haven't lost all of them and since we are in good terms with a lot of african countries, we still need light cavalry that can be quickly deploied by air or naval means. So the light vehicles are now a "tradition" and our engagement in Ivory Coast shows that the AMX-10 P 105mm and the ERC-90 Sagaie "light tank" are particularly well-fitted to an african-type ground.
 

Waylander

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How many ERC-90 do you have in the french army?
The Lègion Entrangère has the 1. REC and one squadron in the 13. DBLE equipped with AMX-10 right?
 

DoC_FouALieR

New Member
We have approximatively 200 ERC-90 and 300 AMX-10 P, they are all likely to be retrofited, before the introduction of the "EBM" (engin blindé médiant).

The Lègion Entrangère has the 1. REC and one squadron in the 13. DBLE equipped with AMX-10 right?
That must be right, but I'm not really sure... Others divisions are equipped with, apart from the Légion Etrangère.
Often, our light cavalry is used as a support weapon for motorized/recon infantry while our armoured division (equipped with Leclercs) lead the way for the mechanized infantry.
 

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Wild Weasel said:
The Russian T-34 deserves it's label as one of the best tanks in history of armor, because it was brutally effective in battle. So too was the Tiger, the Centurion, and the Abrams. They have all been key to winning a decisive victory over their counterparts.
As sexy as the LeClerc may be, I don't believe she has yet fired a shot in anger, nor has she been shot at.
If you are going to mention Abrams you must also mention Challenger. From what I have read it is a proven performer and is descibed as the most heavilly armoured western tank in wikipecia.
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
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Wikipedie is not the source of choice for armor estimates of modern MBTs. ;)

But you are right, is is said to be heavily armored.
 

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Waylander said:
Wikipedie is not the source of choice for armor estimates of modern MBTs. ;)

But you are right, is is said to be heavily armored.
Wikipedia is a very good general reference source but is is not authorituve, however, the point remains the C2 is heavily armoured and I understand harder to kill than an Abrams. It has also seen combat in the second gulf war while challeger I was in the first.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Waylander said:
The Leclerc weights 56 tons. You cannot really think you are getting through it with 12,7mm. It may be lighter armored than some other tanks (Challi II, M1A2SEP, etc) but nevertheless it is a real Main Battle Tank.
Or do you think an Leopard 2A4 or an M1 is not a MBT?
Not much lighter armoured. It weighs slightly more than a basic M1 or Leopard 2 (56.5 tons, vs 54-55 tons), but is about 10% smaller. An M1A2 weighs about 62-63 tons (or about 70 of those 907 kg American "tons"), a Leopard 2A6 about the same. That gives a weight/volume ratio only very slightly higher than the Leclerc.
 

Bfn42

New Member
alexsa said:
Wikipedia is a very good general reference source but is is not authorituve, however, the point remains the C2 is heavily armoured and I understand harder to kill than an Abrams.

Says who Wikipedia........? There's no way you could prove the M1a2 sep armors better than the c2 or vice versa......
 
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KWSN-Men

New Member
A few years back, when Greece was going to buy it's new MBT's, they put in the same test track the M1, the Leo2, the Leclerc, the Challenger and the T-80. Latest versions at the time (about 6 years ago I think).

The results were a bit surprising. The T-80 was waaay back, the Leclerc came out 4th, quite close to the Challenger. Quite a bit front were the Leo 2 and the Abrams, very close. The Leo scored slightly better overall, but insignificant lead really. It all came down to the, to put it midly, problematic US after sales service and the turbine engines against the always available German parts and diesel engines. I do remember that the Lecrlerc had done really good in mobility though...
 

beleg

New Member
KWSN-Men said:
A few years back, when Greece was going to buy it's new MBT's, they put in the same test track the M1, the Leo2, the Leclerc, the Challenger and the T-80. Latest versions at the time (about 6 years ago I think).

The results were a bit surprising. The T-80 was waaay back, the Leclerc came out 4th, quite close to the Challenger. Quite a bit front were the Leo 2 and the Abrams, very close. The Leo scored slightly better overall, but insignificant lead really. It all came down to the, to put it midly, problematic US after sales service and the turbine engines against the always available German parts and diesel engines. I do remember that the Lecrlerc had done really good in mobility though...
We had similar results in the tests back in 2000. Today GIAT is offering an up armored AZUR like version of Leclerc for TSKs MBT needs.. I wonder whose assistance will be sought GIAT , Rheinmetal&KMW or Korea..
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I'm shocked.
A Discovery Channel documentation with the Leo in front of the Abrams. :D
I really would like to see those battlefield management systems on our german Leos.
 

rattmuff

Lurk-loader?
KWSN-Men said:
By the way, I discovered this little video, don't know how many of you have seen it, but it does have some nice moves :D

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KxdEtyxa7Ao&search=exocet
"Greatest tank ever"
1. Leopard 2 A5S
2. M1A1 Abrahams
3. T-34
4. Merkava MK 4
5. Centurion
6. Stridsvagn 103 (the S-tank)
7. T-72
8. Panther/Pzkpfw V
9. M-551 Sheridan
10. M-4 Sherman

There are some notes about this.

1. Jury: Discovery Channel, Tom Clancy(writer, historian), Jaques Littlefield(historian/collector), Peter Caddie Adams(historian), Simon Parker, John Gillman and James Brown(technicians/design engineers), Wolfgang Sterner(german Panther-driver), Brian Carpenter and Ken Tout(Sherman driver/commander). They also based this on interviewing about 100 "tank-knowers" and various experts. USA-dominated jury!

2. They didn't consider the tanks armor and protection!

3. Discovery channel have made two "greatest tank ever" shows. This one where the L2A5S (strv 122) won and in the other show the T-34 won.

4. That video-clip was made in January 2005 at P4 in Skövde.

(I got much more of info regarding this Discovery Channel documentary) :p:
 
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KWSN-Men

New Member
I am not saying that I agree with Discovery Channel views (or that I don't for that matter :D ) but the clip has some nice Leo 2 driving.
 

rattmuff

Lurk-loader?
KWSN-Men said:
I am not saying that I agree with Discovery Channel views (or that I don't for that matter :D ) but the clip has some nice Leo 2 driving.
Same here, just threw in some useless info about the documentary. :D
 
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