Sexy French MBT

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Wild Weasel

Defense Professional
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Aye, she's a looker, and on paper at least, she seems to be an impressive performer as well. In particular, the tank's FC suite and autoloader looks first rate when it's engaged and cycling rounds.
But I'll have to remain skeptical until the entire weapon sytem proves itself in battle.
I don't know when, or if, that will ever happen, ( I suppose one should not hope for such things. ) but that is the determining factor in my book.

The Russian T-34 deserves it's label as one of the best tanks in history of armor, because it was brutally effective in battle. So too was the Tiger, the Centurion, and the Abrams. They have all been key to winning a decisive victory over their counterparts.
As sexy as the LeClerc may be, I don't believe she has yet fired a shot in anger, nor has she been shot at.

I do thank you for the video, though. I love to watch videos of these things zipping around the test track like a car at Le Mans.
 
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Waylander

Defense Professional
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Some people I talked to, who were able to drive this babe, said that it is a dream in terms of handling and acceleration.
And the tech toys in it are also lovely.
On the other hand, the UAEs seem not to be totally satisfied with their Leclerc tropicaine.
With the introduction of the newest versions (T10 should be the newest in service) the little malfunctions and tech problems shall have ended for the french army at least.
 
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contedicavour

New Member
The latest batches of the Leclerc MBT are fully comparable with M1-A2 and more modern than most Leopard 2 (at least the A5, I'm not familiar with the A6) in terms of electronics and targeting systems.
However from an economic point of view, the programme is a disaster. Less than 400 have been built for France, and the 400 built for the UAE were sold at a unitary cost below production cost, just to keep GIAT alive. Unfortunately programmes with insufficient quantities (such as my country's Ariete MBT) are a drag on defense budgets. It would be better to buy off the shelf Leopard 2A5 and spare the R&D.
Each country could focus on what it does best : for Italy it is the Centauro 8x8 which exists in APC, cavalry tank buster version 105-mm gun and 120-mm guns (this one only in prototype) and has been bought by Spain and is being examined by the US (which have leased 18).

cheers
 
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Waylander

Defense Professional
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The problem of comparing one tank with another comes up here again.
For example, we just don't know the exact strenght of the different self developed modern armor used by the US, Russia, Germany, France, UK, China, India, Pakistan, etc. And we will never get to know in the near future.

But we can compare style and coolness factor!!! :D

I agree that the Leclerc is a really good looking beast. He seems to be the manifestation of mobility and speed.
 
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Big-E

Banned Member
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If Iran tries to close the Straights of Hormuz like they threatened last week that would mean an invasion of the UAE. Maybe then we could see this lady in action. I wonder how she will do against the Zulfiqar? :shudder
 
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Snayke

New Member
I sure like the speed of the tank and the skid it did. :p Firing while moving was a good thing too. Although I think many tanks can do that.
 
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cypress

New Member
Does not look like a "MBT". at the very start of the video the driver opens the hatch and the armor could not be much more than 1 inch thick. The M1 abrams has over 1ft (over 10cm) of armor in the front. It looks light and flimsy. More like a tank destroyer or a light tank. Reminds me of the old british crusader. Thats where everythings going though, light tanks that are fast but thin armor. I wouldent want to fight in one of those.
 
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Izzy1

Banned Member
Whilst there are a lot of cheaper, second-hand yet still highly-capable Leopard 2s around, tanks like the Le Clerc and Challenger 2E will have a hard time getting export orders.

But I agree, Le Clerc is a very nice piece of kit.
 
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Waylander

Defense Professional
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The main problems for the export of Leclerc, Abrams and Challi II are not the old Leo IIA4 but the new build Leo II like the spanish, swedish and greece ones.

@Snayke
That's right. Firing while on the move is not that big thing.

@cypress
The one you mean at the beginning of the video is not a Leclerc. There are two types of tanks in this video. The one you mean is an AMX-10C scout/cavallery tank with a 105mm gun and thin armor. It is for example in use with the light armored elements of the foreign legion.
 
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Zombie Krupp

New Member
contedicavour said:
The latest batches of the Leclerc MBT are fully comparable with M1-A2 and more modern than most Leopard 2 (at least the A5, I'm not familiar with the A6) in terms of electronics and targeting systems.
However from an economic point of view, the programme is a disaster. Less than 400 have been built for France, and the 400 built for the UAE were sold at a unitary cost below production cost, just to keep GIAT alive. Unfortunately programmes with insufficient quantities (such as my country's Ariete MBT) are a drag on defense budgets. It would be better to buy off the shelf Leopard 2A5 and spare the R&D.
Each country could focus on what it does best : for Italy it is the Centauro 8x8 which exists in APC, cavalry tank buster version 105-mm gun and 120-mm guns (this one only in prototype) and has been bought by Spain and is being examined by the US (which have leased 18).

cheers
Click to expand...
The US Centauro lease is only for the purpose of training crews for Stryker Mobile Gun System. It really is a shame, since Centauro is a better vehicle, and while its not C-130 transportable, neither is any version of Stryker thanks to all the weight additions, especially the slat armor.
 
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Zombie Krupp

New Member
cypress said:
Does not look like a "MBT". at the very start of the video the driver opens the hatch and the armor could not be much more than 1 inch thick. The M1 abrams has over 1ft (over 10cm) of armor in the front. It looks light and flimsy. More like a tank destroyer or a light tank. Reminds me of the old british crusader. Thats where everythings going though, light tanks that are fast but thin armor. I wouldent want to fight in one of those.
Click to expand...
That’s because the crew must be able to lift them! AFV hatches are often made of armor grade titanium alloys in ordered to get better protection for the limited allowed weight, but its still a weak spot on any vehicle.

1ft is 25.4cm BTW, and the M1 most certainly does not have that thickness on the drivers hatch, the front hull armor is significantly thinner then the front turret armor in any case.
 
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cypress

New Member
Yeah that was my point, that it is more like a AFV even though it is in a tank configuration. It looks like a heavy tank, until you see it how thick the hull is. A .50 call Barret with DU rounds could probly knock one out.
 
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PeoplesPoster

New Member
cypress said:
Does not look like a "MBT". at the very start of the video the driver opens the hatch and the armor could not be much more than 1 inch thick. The M1 abrams has over 1ft (over 10cm) of armor in the front. It looks light and flimsy. More like a tank destroyer or a light tank. Reminds me of the old british crusader. Thats where everythings going though, light tanks that are fast but thin armor. I wouldent want to fight in one of those.
Click to expand...

Wee first post. The vehicle at the beginning of the video wasen't the Leclerc. If you look closely it's one of the other wheeled armor vehicles shown.
 
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Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Did anyone read my post? ;)

@cypress
The one you mean at the beginning of the video is not a Leclerc. There are two types of tanks in this video. The one you mean is an AMX-10C scout/cavallery tank with a 105mm gun and thin armor. It is for example in use with the light armored elements of the foreign legion.
Click to expand...
Here are some pics of it:

[img=http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5631/amx10rc28gv.th.jpg]

[img=http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/7633/amx10rc4yl.th.jpg]

The Leclerc weights 56 tons. You cannot really think you are getting through it with 12,7mm. It may be lighter armored than some other tanks (Challi II, M1A2SEP, etc) but nevertheless it is a real Main Battle Tank.
Or do you think an Leopard 2A4 or an M1 is not a MBT?
 
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long live usa

New Member
Waylander said:
Some people I talked to, who were able to drive this babe, said that it is a dream in terms of handling and acceleration.
Click to expand...
i hope that they can throw that sucker in reverse fast!!!:dance3
 
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cypress

New Member
Waylander said:
Did anyone read my post? ;)



Here are some pics of it:

[img=http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5631/amx10rc28gv.th.jpg]

[img=http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/7633/amx10rc4yl.th.jpg]

The Leclerc weights 56 tons. You cannot really think you are getting through it with 12,7mm. It may be lighter armored than some other tanks (Challi II, M1A2SEP, etc) but nevertheless it is a real Main Battle Tank.
Or do you think an Leopard 2A4 or an M1 is not a MBT?
Click to expand...

You are right about the Leclerc, it is a real MBT, but those photos are not of the AFV at the start of the video. Where is the hatch on the left side? Different altogether.
 
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DoC_FouALieR

New Member
Exactly.
The armored vehicle we can see at the beginning of the video is an ERC-90 "Sagaie" light armored recon vehicle. It has a distinguishable side door to access the driver post, 6 wheels, a 90mm rifled gun and amphibious capability.
They are being retrofitted with a new engine to accept common diesel fuel, and new protection and fire control system.
 
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