S. Arabia to buy French aircraft (Rafale)!!!

[SABRE]

I know King Fahad is still alive & kicking but Prince Abdulah is the real deal in KSA now days. He is the only Prince who is not intimidated by any one, atleast not so easily & he alone has issues with USA but not that much with Britain. But lets not discuss Saudi Royal Family here. Lets get back to the topic.

The final point is that KSA is yet to decide on AirSuperiority fighters to replace current fleet of F-15s. While F-16 seems to have won the multirole possition against Gripens & Mirages. We will have to wait & see the combined evaluation report from both the test pilots. (Both are suppose to agree on one single AC)

 

[adsH]

I know King Fahad is still alive & kicking but Prince Abdulah is the real deal in KSA now days. He is the only Prince who is not intimidated by any one, atleast not so easily & he alone has issues with USA but not that much with Britain. But lets not discuss Saudi Royal Family here. Lets get back to the topic.

The final point is that KSA is yet to decide on AirSuperiority fighters to replace current fleet of F-15s. While F-16 seems to have won the multirole possition against Gripens & Mirages. We will have to wait & see the combined evaluation report from both the test pilots. (Both are suppose to agree on one single AC)

There are very few ACs without Political Strings attached that the Saudi would prefer. at the moment (uncertain times) Saudi's can can do by staying clear off for the time being. i'd suggest the Raptors but the Saudi's have felt the Heat of the congress which would make them think twice before choosing anything American again. The F-15 might end up being replaced by J-XX you never know, way in the future!!!. Saudi's would definitely want a partnership in the longer term. there are very few capable Air Superiority fighters that could match the F-15 other then Sukhoi's and Raptors. boths have hidden thorns but are going to be made available to them (Saudi's) if requested. The Saudi's have been expunging at a slow Rate but are Removing American Equipment out of there services (all thanks to Congress). Swedish Data-links is something that they seem to be inclined towards in the future. i think Swedes have struck gold here.
Just wait for it!!!!

By the way Malik Fahad's Admin is still Active so "Dewan" is an Active institution which has Powers not available to Ameer Abdullah but yes Decisions are taken by Abdullah and his advisors, but the Ministers remain the same and the government is still headed by Malik Fahad. These brothers don't differentiate between each other as who came from which Mother they all came from One father so they are Brothers. Blood is irrelevant.

 

[highsea]

...there are very few capable Air Superiority fighters that could match the F-15 other then Sukhoi's and Raptors. boths have hidden thorns but are going to be made available to them (Saudi's) if requested.

I hope you are not serious, there is no way in hell the F-22 would be offered to any ME country, and that includes Israel. Congress would slam this so fast it would be political suicide even to mention it.

As of right now, it is under 100% export restriction. Unoffocially, it would be offered only to another ABCA country, that is, Australia, Britain, or Canada, and even then, only if there was a demonstrated need.

 

[P.A.F]

Quote:
Originally Posted by adsH
...there are very few capable Air Superiority fighters that could match the F-15 other then Sukhoi's and Raptors. boths have hidden thorns but are going to be made available to them (Saudi's) if requested.

I hope you are not serious, there is no way in hell the F-22 would be offered to any ME country, and that includes Israel. Congress would slam this so fast it would be political suicide even to mention it.

As of right now, it is under 100% export restriction. Unoffocially, it would be offered only to another ABCA country, that is, Australia, Britain, or Canada, and even then, only if there was a demonstrated need.

just what i was about to say. there is no way in hell that the saudis will get the raptor. if they did then israel will be pulling there hair out. there is no fighter jet in this world at present that can match the alround preformance of the raptor in anyway. and america is not that foolish to give away superior technology away to anyone.

 

[SABRE]

Raptors are for ABC as highsea stated. JSF is some thing KSA can count on in the future, but the requirements are to be full filled today, which also evaluates out the J-XX. Hence KSA has two ACs left EF-2000 & Rafale. Finaly we'll see the competition between two when they are tested practicaly by the two KSAAF pilots. Only than we'll come to know Saudis choices. Its nothing more than EF-2000 & Rafale. F-15 may be.

 

[adsH]

Raptors are for ABC as highsea stated. JSF is some thing KSA can count on in the future, but the requirements are to be full filled today, which also evaluates out the J-XX. Hence KSA has two ACs left EF-2000 & Rafale. Finaly we'll see the competition between two when they are tested practicaly by the two KSAAF pilots. Only than we'll come to know Saudis choices. Its nothing more than EF-2000 & Rafale. F-15 may be.

When it would come to A2A i think we all know the Limitations of the JSF. I really think F-15 would hold up better regardless of the Stealth issues in A2A. I think the Tornados with their JTIDS and the Capability they represent with the Sentry's puts the Saudi's a one of the top places (In terms of airforce). The Training may be lacking at worst. The Raptor will come arround Believe me guy its Hunch. An expensive Platform like this will need Forign Sales, Be it 20 years After.

An example of the Same Hardware we Used during an exercise with our Friends the USAF (Aggressors). we had Tornado F.3 with the Sentrys and the JTIDS (I know its a nato System) the Saudi Sentrys have gone through a recent upgrade so the fleet may be uptodate.

The US/NATO answer was JTIDS (Joint Tactical Information Display System) datalink and fighter displays. This was fitted to AWACS, some USAF F-15C, USN F-14D and RAF Tornado F.3. JTIDS was expensive and tried to present too much information on a 5x5 inch display with a range of 555 km(aircraft centred in middle). RAF Tornado F.3 fitted with JTIDS controlled by RAF AWACS fitted with ESM have defeated USAF F-15s in exercises using JTIDS. The AWACS would use its radar and ESM to detect targets, pass the information over JTIDS. The Tornado F.3 would stay passive (leave radars off) and get into AMRAAM launch parameters without activating radars. The USAF F-15s had little or no warning.

here it states the Range of the JTIDS was 555 km but this is Signal Propagation rather then detection range the Packet (Sentry) should only be able to detect no longer then 190-200+ km this is a guess but i have based this assertion on a very credible Guess work. LOL!!!! just trust me on this PLEASE!! pLEASE!!


The Saudi's could always ask BAE system to Build them a New A2A Superiority Fighter. if they need one Money is no issue Time would be well spent with other intermediate AC. Dasault Aviation has always taken up the challenge.

 

[SABRE]

When it would come to A2A i think we all know the Limitations of the JSF. I really think F-15 would hold up better regardless of the Stealth issues in A2A. I think the Tornados with their JTIDS and the Capability they represent with the Sentry's puts the Saudi's a one of the top places (In terms of airforce). The Training may be lacking at worst. The Raptor will come arround Believe me guy its Hunch. An expensive Platform like this will need Forign Sales, Be it 20 years After....................................

................The Saudi's could always ask BAE system to Build them a New A2A Superiority Fighter. if they need one Money is no issue Time would be well spent with other intermediate AC. Dasault Aviation has always taken up the challenge.

A2A of JSF is untested. So u can not judge it so quickly. There are alot of modifications going on (Saw it on Discovery..whole competition between X-35 & X-32 & X-35's selection along with Pentagon asking for some major modifications). JSF is going to be made available in 3 varients. An AC Carrier version of USNavy, A jump jet version for US Marriens & another one for USAF. The one USAF is going to use will definitly have better A2A capability other wise JSF would be un-worthy AC to replace F-16s & F-18s. Its A2A is going to better than F-16 & F-18 when its later versions come out.

About Raptors. YES even my believe is that they would be made available for export probably after 20 yrs. Either down graded versions would be produced or US would be using upgraded versions of F-22 than now & sell the current versions. e.g: export F-22 A/B while US be using F-22 C/D & E/F.

About KSA asking BAe to make them A2A AC...I think Saudis should invest money in their own aviation company. May be even have a joint venture. Pakistan would be more than happy, invite China & hire employees from US, UK, France etc. But its a good idea Saudis going for their own AC.

 

[SABRE]

I was discussing this topic with some one (one of my sources) & he said that France did send a RAFALE to KSA & the two pilots did actualy particaly evaluated it. The Pakistani one rejected it & what ever the Prince thought of it was only told to the royal authorities. The Rafale may still be in KSA untill EF-2000 is evaluated (may be KSA bought the single unit).

Considering the rejection by Pak-Saudi pilot, I doubt that the PAF would seriously consider Rafales. I think latest F-15s & F-16s are more worthy AirCrafts.

 

[kashifshahzad]

I was discussing this topic with some one (one of my sources) & he said that France did send a RAFALE to KSA & the two pilots did actualy particaly evaluated it. The Pakistani one rejected it & what ever the Prince thought of it was only told to the royal authorities. The Rafale may still be in KSA untill EF-2000 is evaluated (may be KSA bought the single unit).

Considering the rejection by Pak-Saudi pilot, I doubt that the PAF would seriously consider Rafales. I think latest F-15s & F-16s are more worthy AirCrafts.

I dont know why the Saudis need the planes they have already much of them so remin cool buy some planes from china they will be inexpensive and they can get the trainid pilots from pakistan and there is a chance for tech transfer too i am inexperience in this forum but i have expressed my view

 

[adsH]

The F-5s are a part of the Saudi Defense requirements, they played a Role in the Doctrine. Without them (after Retirements) there will be a gap that gap needs to be Filled up, with similar capability (or better depending on the Foe's recently acquired Abilities.). At the end of the Day its not the Test pilots that decide what to procure its the Experts at the Defense ministry that would have to do the Math and evaluate every aspect of Ac in the Near and long term future. Its entire procurement Cost Logistical cost etc would have to be calculated. its not just a matter of replacing unit for unit since the Rafael are more modern and are allot more capable. (force Multipliers) So every aspect would have to studied by the Defense procurement teams, usually by a capable set of thinkers (Capability Analysis Teams). The Test pilot are a sor of pare of eyes that can look for possible AC that match the requirements of the Force. they are there out in field evaluating the physical envelops of a platform and they work with Ground analysts.