Russian Air Force News & Discussion

[Feanor]

They probably are unable to produce smaller and larger airplanes sufficiently and on time. Plus the plant could possibly also produce Il-212 and Be-200.
Im not sure why didn't they choose to upgrade Il 76 further

They could end up using Il-76s where they really need smaller planes, because they're available, but I still think it's a strange decision. It seems likely the PD-8 engine will enter service, and at that point it should be possible to build a 2-engined smaller jet transport.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Yes, besides that, next decade Russia will end up with three turbofan transporters which are quite close to each other: Il-212, Il-276 and Il-76MD-90A, without a real replacement for the An-26, An-32 and An-140 turboprops.

 

[Terran]

Yes. But...why? What need is there for piles of additional Il-76s? There's already piles of airframes in storage. They don't really have an export market.

Most of those airframes would cost more to restore than build new. Wiring, structural members plus a lot of those aircraft have been canabilized especially in the post Soviet era. Either picked for parts to keep siblings in flight or to pay for vodka. Then you have conditions. In the US old airplanes are stored in Deserts the Dry climate reduces rust issues the regions of the Soviet Union which were close in climate are now other countries. The Russian Federation boneyards tend to be more temperate with wetter winters and summers leading to corrosion
. Questions on the Russian mothballs process and if it was done correctly can also factor in addition to the condition of the airframe before retirement. Russian airfields are generally rougher than western that places stress on the aircraft too.

On the plus side for Russia they didn’t dismantle the facilities to the same degree as other projects so they can build new though it will take time. On the Downside This war hasn’t helped the Russian military who was likely already owner the oldest of the air frames. The Recent Operation Spiders web may not have destroyed active Be 50 but blowing up drones on the source of spare parts is attributable.

Yes, besides that, next decade Russia will end up with three turbofan transporters which are quite close to each other: Il-212, Il-276 and Il-76MD-90A, without a real replacement for the An-26, An-32 and An-140 turboprops.

….
Considering the track record for Russian military procurement… that’s Optimistic.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Most of those airframes would cost more to restore than build new. Wiring, structural members plus a lot of those aircraft have been canabilized especially in the post Soviet era. Either picked for parts to keep siblings in flight or to pay for vodka. Then you have conditions. In the US old airplanes are stored in Deserts the Dry climate reduces rust issues the regions of the Soviet Union which were close in climate are now other countries. The Russian Federation boneyards tend to be more temperate with wetter winters and summers leading to corrosion
. Questions on the Russian mothballs process and if it was done correctly can also factor in addition to the condition of the airframe before retirement. Russian airfields are generally rougher than western that places stress on the aircraft too.

On the plus side for Russia they didn’t dismantle the facilities to the same degree as other projects so they can build new though it will take time. On the Downside This war hasn’t helped the Russian military who was likely already owner the oldest of the air frames. The Recent Operation Spiders web may not have destroyed active Be 50 but blowing up drones on the source of spare parts is attributable.
….
Considering the track record for Russian military procurement… that’s Optimistic.

Yes, maybe too optimistic. The Il-276 still only exist on paper.

 

[Ananda]

If the numbers and condition of Rusian Military Airlift is correct, then the need for more IL-76-90a seems justifiable. It is needed to replace not only older first gen IL-76, but also AN-22. Infact with the potential no replacement for AN-124, more IL-76-90a could be needed. After all it is the only big transport that will be keep on production line, let alone potential export.

It seems likely the PD-8 engine will enter service, and at that point it should be possible to build a 2-engined smaller jet transport.

Will there be enough PD-8 for military purpose? Looking on the need of SSJ-100 for Russian domestic airliners, seems it will take years before there will be enough PD-8 for military use. They seems will go for turboprop IL-112V first before enough PD-8 for IL-276.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

If the numbers and condition of Rusian Military Airlift is correct, then the need for more IL-76-90a seems justifiable. It is needed to replace not only older first gen IL-76, but also AN-22. Infact with the potential no replacement for AN-124, more IL-76-90a could be needed. After all it is the only big transport that will be keep on production line, let alone potential export.



Will there be enough PD-8 for military purpose ? Looking on the need of SSJ-100 for Russian domestic airliners, seems it will take years before there will be enough PD-8 for military use. They seems will go for turboprop IL-112V first before enough PD-8 for IL-276.

Wait, i thought they abandoned the original Il-112V design with the Klimov TV7-117ST turboprops. Or do you mean the Il-114-300?

 

[Ananda]

IL-114-300 is for regional airliner and IL-112V is for Military Transport. I see conflicting report on IL-112V future, between postponed or delay, but so far not completely abandoned.

I might be wrong, but twin turboprop military transport seems getting more priority against twin turbofan military transport. At least the priority lists for military transport that I can gather is IL-76-90a, then IL-112V and third priority goes tp IL-276. Thus IL-114-300 is different program lists.

 

[Ananda]

This video talk about using new light weight matterials to reduce weight of Russian engines. Interesting it is talk the materials will.also be use for PS-90a and not just new gen engines like PD-8, PD-14 and PD-35. Shown eventough it is older design engine, but Russia will continue retain that engine.

In my opinion it is not matter PS-90a already proven, but also there will be limited production capacity for new gen engines. Shown Il-76-90a, Il-96-400M, Tu-214M continue will be mainstay for both Russia military and commercial needs for at least until end of this to early next decade. All before enough capacities being build for new gen engines and planes.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

This video talk about using new light weight matterials to reduce weight of Russian engines. Interesting it is talk the materials will.also be use for PS-90a and not just new gen engines like PD-8, PD-14 and PD-35. Shown eventough it is older design engine, but Russia will continue retain that engine.

In my opinion it is not matter PS-90a already proven, but also there will be limited production capacity for new gen engines. Shown Il-76-90a, Il-96-400M, Tu-214M continue will be mainstay for both Russia military and commercial needs for at least until end of this to early next decade. All before enough capacities being build for new gen engines and planes.

Besides that, a new engine also means that those three aircraft types need again a modification/modernisation.

 

[Ananda]

From the progress, got impression that SSJ with PD-8 and this IL-114-300 are more ready them MC-21. This seems why Tu-214 with PS-90a still being produce.

 

[Feanor]

From the progress, got impression that SSJ with PD-8 and this IL-114-300 are more ready them MC-21. This seems why Tu-214 with PS-90a still being produce.

The Tu-214 production is a different factory from the MS-21 production. And the MS-21 is in an... unclear state. Tu-214 is available and is being made for government services primarily. Also Tu-214 production is proceeding at a snails pace.

I wouldn't be surprised if the SSJ with PD-8 was ready first, KnAAPO has now over a decade of experience in producing passenger aircraft, and the Sukhoi design bureau is probably the most substantial such organization in Russian aerospace. As to the Il-114, it's mostly just an engine problem. The Il-114 itself is a Soviet-era project that was initially completed in the mid-'90s. There's no reason Russia can't produce an updated version of it. In a pre-sanctions world it wouldn't have been economically viable but now it's less about competing in open markets and more about meeting domestic needs when alternatives aren't available.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

They are working for years on the UZGA LMS-901 Baikal, as a replacement for the An-2, but how is the situation with the Myasishchev M-101T? It is smaller than the LMS-901, with only a capacity of 7 passengers and it uses the Czech Walter M601F engine. I understand that from 2022 it is very hard for Russia to buy foreign aircraft engines, but the Wikipedia page gives me the impression that only a handfull of M-101Ts are built before 2022.

 

[Ananda]

Seems officialy Russian acknowledge their Airlines don't have much more time to operate Airbus and Boeing in the fleet. High costs of parts already increase the cost of flying and canibalisation. All indication shown their Airlines and commercial aviation is the biggest sector that being hit by Western sanctions.

All this because domestic commercial industry is the biggest sector that being neglected after the fall of USSR. Trying to revive it will be daunting tasks, and even if Tu-214, IL-114 and SSJ-100 are in considerable population in next three years, it is still won't be enough to replace all their Boeing and Airbuses.

Well Iran manage to operate their old Airbus and Boeing aftee 40 years of sanctions. Russia in my opinion need at least a decade for their domestic commercial airliners replacing all their airlines narrow body Airbus and Boeing. Just don't see enough intention from Russia to build enough IL-96-400M to replace all their A330 let alone A350 and 777. Seems they have to wait China to build non western version of C929 and C939 later on.

 

[Ananda]

IL-114-300 already being revealed officially on the tech specs. It will be enter commercial market by 2026 and later on improve version (lighter weight) will be at 2028. The 2026 version will have max range of 1000 km with 66 passangers while the 2028 improve version close to 1500km with 66 passanger.

The 2028 version is the one that going to close in toward ATR72-600 performance. Still with this and PD8 SSJ-100, Russia begin to churn domestic Airliners with non western components. Early steps to cut western dependence on their commercial airliners.

 

[Ananda]

PD-35 prototype being shown publicly conducting static test. Unlike PS-90A, PD-8 and PD-14, no specific aircraft being choosen yet for this engine. Altough it is speculate Russia will give this engine as non western option to China C929, or use it for supposedly AN-124 replacement.

Russia patents new widebody airliner design after withdrawal from CR929 program - Air Data News, it is being talk Russia already prepare their own widebody design. However I personally suspect in the end they are working with China again on C929. They are afterall involve with design from the scratch.

 

[Ananda]

I put this Russian channel video more on Russia development on industrial gas turbine usage. Gas Turbine makers actualy make good margin not only through airlines industry, but combine with energy deliveries and shipping industries. If Russia due to sanctions manage to be independent toward Gas Turbine needs, then it is just matter of time they are moving to Global South market as cheaper alternatives.

https://en.topcor.ru/63730-schedryj-podarok-stoit-li-perenosit-v-kitaj-proizvodstvo-pd-14-i-pd-8.html

Putin already offer Xi for PD8 and PD14 usage on C909/ARJ21 and C919. This as potential China also need to build non western version of their airliners as Russia already force to do with domestic version of SSJ-100 and MC-21. Both of them should put their ego and work closely better, if they really hope to get chances against Duopoly.

 

[Terran]

Putin already offer Xi for PD8 and PD14 usage on C909/ARJ21 and C919. This as potential China also need to build non western version of their airliners as Russia already force to do with domestic version of SSJ-100 and MC-21. Both of them should put their ego and work closely better, if they really hope to get chances against Duopoly.

In the Cold War the Soviets had a captive market for their airliners and engines with some limited inroads into western civil aviation. However the picture today is a bit different. Back then the line between west and east in technical and industrial development wasn’t as dramatically different.
I have been hearing the line about putting Russian engines on Comac jets for about a decade now but three problems I think come up. First the 909 and 919 engines are set. It would take a lot of engineering to integrate Russian engines. Engine integration isn’t like legos you can’t just swap them around. The fuel system, structural components even dimensions of the engine all have to be worked into design.
pulling a NEO build isn’t easy.
For the next problem C919’s engines are not the only western part. To make a sanctions proof 919 you would have to basically redesign the whole aircraft. Global times give the conservative 40% imported parts others are 60% to even 90% by the CSIS.
Even if you use the Chinese numbers (Global Times) many of those are critical systems beyond the power plants. Again these are not LEGO swaps. Everything has to fit inside the mold lines of the aircraft. So even if you have a theoretical replacement you have to now redesign it to fit inside the 919. It’s part of why the Superjet Russification started back in 2018 and is only now officially had a full up maiden flight.
Then comes the economics. The C919 is already facing an uphill battle to get into production and sales. China is still buying Airbus A320 and Boeing 737 Max birds primarily due to the well established global supply and support market. CFM, P&W, RR, GE They have global support networks. Just about anywhere on the planet if your check engine light comes on in the cockpit they can get someone to fix it.
Can the Russians or Chinese say the same? They are both basically starting or restarting from scratch. The PD 14 just entered mass production (at least the Russians claim it to have). Thing is the Chinese also claim the CJ1000A is pretty far along. So if Comac is supposed to reengineer the C919 to be future proof against unreliable foreign policies do they buy the Russian Import and open themselves to unreliable foreign supply and partners like they did with the failed CRIAC scheme or do they just use their own? They might have to put up with Imported Western engines for a while but the existing order book is already built on CFM LEAP.
longer term similar story the C929 with the PD35 hits the wall of known delays on it with the CJ2000 also on the way.