Russian Air Force News & Discussion

[Haavarla]

So in effect, both the Maunfactors and the end users haven't spoke a singel word until the final product was ready.... How brain dead is this?!

Everybody knew it was first and foremost intended for the platform Su-34.
But it makes no logic to not use the Su-35S..
omg, this is such an embarresment..

 

[Feanor]

So in effect, both the Maunfactors and the end users haven't spoke a singel word until the final product was ready.... How brain dead is this?!

Everybody knew it was first and foremost, the platform was THE Su-34.. omg, this is such an embarresment..

There was a funny incident regarding pylons for the Flanker series and carrying cruise missiles. The Su-30SM, derived from the MKI, has strengthened pylons and can carry cruise missiles. However the Su-35S does not. It's silly to put it mildly. There's no reason the Su-35S wouldn't have the same, but it just wasn't intended for them, and so nobody ever thought of doing it. I'm not sure whether the Su-34 can. So yes, silly stuff happens. I honestly think they could have developed a single heavy multirole fighter, and used it as a jack of all trades, instead of getting stupid with the Su-27SM. Su-35S, Su-30SM, Su-34...

 

[Haavarla]

If it is only the pylon, i guess the problem is salvageble. Not sure about re-wire and connection interfaces though..

 

[Feanor]

Some updates on the MiG-35. Apparently the current GPV does include MiG-35 purchases. At least two squadrons are currently planned, with deliveries to start in 2014. It will carry the Zhuk-A AESA radar, which will make it the first AESA fighter jet radar in VVS service.

Lenta.ru:

This further diversification is not going to help reduce maintenance costs...

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Thanks Feanor for your updates and explanation of the various SAM/AAA.

 

[Klaus]

Does it make sense to start the production of an aircraft of which you're planning to buy just 48? The MiG-35 may be quite similar to the MiG-29, but there are certain differences between them, and the aircraft is clearly inferior to the Su-35.
At least this justifies keeping other MiGs in service, too, e.g. the MiG-29SMT, as there will be a fleet of around 100 of them by 2020 (34 SMT/UBT, 24 K/KUB, 48 MiG-35), it makes more sense to invest in upgrades.

 

[Haavarla]

It now looks like the Indian FGFA version have been shelfed(for good).
Instead IAF will get an Su-50I version, the singel crew jet. With it, a few Indian made sub-systems.

http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/15/54/62/79/td110.jpg

Time and HAL abillity to handle such a large and complex program appair to be the problem here

 

[Bonza]

I think that was inevitable, unfortunately for India. It was certainly an ambitious project considering the issues they've had in the past with indigenous combat jet development. Probably better all round if they just go for the new Sukhoi.

They might not be admitting it but I have to agree with you Haavarla, I think there have to be questions around HAL's ability to deliver on as ambitious a project as that (no offence to them, but it's a big step).

 

[gf0012-aust]

They might not be admitting it but I have to agree with you Haavarla, I think there have to be questions around HAL's ability to deliver on as ambitious a project as that (no offence to them, but it's a big step).

I've worked in India 3-4 different contracts - the core problem has usually been cultural.

There's no shortage of qualified people, smart engineers, mil scientists etc... but what lets them down is fundamental project management and communication

IMO there is a defacto "caste" system within their workforces where comms is an abject failure - so when problems are identified it is much too late to do a graceful recover

The above gets worse when dealing with foreigners/foreign companies

I enjoyed my times in India, but the work practices frustrated me no end.

There's an unfortunate link between loss of face and saying "no" when things go pear shaped - and I believe that's a major factor in what kills their capacity to get major projects working smoothly...

 

[Haavarla]

If Russia and VVS didn't ditch the two seater T-50. This could have turned out differently though..

So why did VVS and Russian MoD decide to ditch this?

They all seen too much delay on the Pak-Fa program and decided to focus all resouces on this singel crew T-50 design, and try to avoid any further delays..

Or perhaps VVS really don't need a two seater T-50 in their arsenal, they do have Yak-130, Su-30SM, four Su-30M2, and a few older Su-27UB flying around for trainer purpose.
The Su-34 is ofcourse a two seater. Me thinks they got about what they need of two seater in VVS inventory.
And they might just follow US way of life, with program like F-22 and F-35(both singel crew jets).
I find this a bit interesting..

 

[alexkvaskov]

Also one of the EW pods for the Su-34 has completed development, but can't be mounted on the aircraft because it was developed without a mounting mechanism. In other words when ordering the OKR, the MoD didn't include a mounting mechanism in the tactical-technical requirements. They tried to sue the developer, but the court sided with the company. The whole situation borders on idiocy.

bmpd - "

Speaking of EW, which airborne systems and platforms does the RuAF currently operate?

 

[Haavarla]

Dedicated EW platform?
From the top of my mind.. i'm not sure. Can't think of any.
It looks like the different EW and Jammer pods have to do the job for now.

The A-50U is their latest on AWACS platform, and will use the 476 airframe later on.

 

[alexkvaskov]

Dedicated EW platform?
From the top of my mind.. i'm not sure. Can't think of any.
It looks like the different EW and Jammer pods have to do the job for now.

The A-50U is their latest on AWACS platform, and will use the 476 airframe later on.

What about the IL-20/22 aircraft?

 

[macman]

Does it make sense to start the production of an aircraft of which you're planning to buy just 48?

It does if they still wish to keep the Mig 29/35 as part of the export potfolio, (as well as what you said about keeping the upgrade path for development going).

It has been quoted in a number of places that not having it in the Russian Airforce as being a major factor in it's failure in the Indian tender, & this would likely be the same other tenders.
By having it fully supported in the Russian Airforce it's sales prospects are still pretty good in a number of places - Africa, Central Asia, some of smaller Asian & South American countries...

The recent Kazakhstan Mig-29M & Myanmar sales show that there is still a good future for the Mig if it's supported, & a two-tier fighter sales program keeps Russia in markets that they are at risk of being frozen out of by the old US F-16 'free' resale program (which will end up costing close to the price of a Mig-29M) as well as the Chinese resource exchange deals. A number of countries seem likely to be keen on a proven alternative without political strings that can't afford to run a squadron of Flankers.
(Also Iran would likely be a major customer if the current mess dies down a bit.)

 

[Feanor]

Speaking of EW, which airborne systems and platforms does the RuAF currently operate?

There is an EW Su-24M variant, namely the Su-24MP (Су-24MП), not to be confused with the Su-24MR (Су-24МР) which is a recon bird. Also there are EW assets on the Il-20 airframes. As far as I know that's about it. There are pods under development and in experimental exploitation for the Su-34 (Sorbtsiya, and Tarantula come to mind).

The recent Kazakhstan Mig-29M & Myanmar sales

Myanmar got MiG-29SE, and MiG-29B, as far as I know. Not MiG-29M. I haven't heard anything about Kazakhstan sales. Do you have a source?

If Russia and VVS didn't ditch the two seater T-50. This could have turned out differently though..

So why did VVS and Russian MoD decide to ditch this?

They all seen too much delay on the Pak-Fa program and decided to focus all resouces on this singel crew T-50 design, and try to avoid any further delays..

Or perhaps VVS really don't need a two seater T-50 in their arsenal, they do have Yak-130, Su-30SM, four Su-30M2, and a few older Su-27UB flying around for trainer purpose.
The Su-34 is ofcourse a two seater. Me thinks they got about what they need of two seater in VVS inventory.
And they might just follow US way of life, with program like F-22 and F-35(both singel crew jets).
I find this a bit interesting..

I think it's simply a matter of money. The MoD has discovered that although their budget for the next decade is huge, it's not that huge. And this means that they need to make realistic plans. Hence they have slashed many expensive programs, that are just not doable with the funds available.

 

[Klaus]

MiG will join Sukhoi in developing an unmanned combat aircraft. Both companies have come to an agreement, according to which they will develop a heavy UCAV (probably 10 to 20 tons).
Sukhoi and Transas are already working on an armed UAV, which will have a weight of about 5 tons, similar to the American Reaper.

MiG and Sukhoi have signed a cooperation agreement in the network of development of UAVs - News - Russian Aviation - RUAVIATION.COM

 

[StobieWan]

I've worked in India 3-4 different contracts - the core problem has usually been cultural.

There's no shortage of qualified people, smart engineers, mil scientists etc... but what lets them down is fundamental project management and communication

IMO there is a defacto "caste" system within their workforces where comms is an abject failure - so when problems are identified it is much too late to do a graceful recover

The above gets worse when dealing with foreigners/foreign companies

I enjoyed my times in India, but the work practices frustrated me no end.

There's an unfortunate link between loss of face and saying "no" when things go pear shaped - and I believe that's a major factor in what kills their capacity to get major projects working smoothly...

I've not worked in India but a lot of our support comes from there and one of the worst issues is trying to get anyone to step off the script - if it said the server had to be started at such a time, that's when it happened, if you needed a config change, even if it was to set the thing to a known standard, no way no how without four emails confirming it, and even then only reluctantly.

I don't know it's cultural or simply the fact that there are so many people ready to take the job if you are seen to be screwing up...

Then they drive home with such a devil may care attitude

It's certainly hard to get folk to volunteer ideas and discuss them freely in that background.

 

[Eeshaan]

I've worked in India 3-4 different contracts - the core problem has usually been cultural.

IMO there is a defacto "caste" system within their workforces where comms is an abject failure - so when problems are identified it is much too late to do a graceful recover

The above gets worse when dealing with foreigners/foreign companies

Being an indian, living in India and seeing exactly what you're talking about on a day-to-day basis, I hope that will not discourage you from coming to do business or work in India in the future. The finger-pointing and blame game/politics are the biggest issue here. But work practices and the environment will improve gradually, I'm sure.

Now regarding the Russian air force, I have to ask, have the Tu-95's noise issues been adressed yet ? Also, any upgrades, or new variants to see service in the next few years ? IMHO that's the most beautiful bomber aircraft ever built, and I would be a bit sad to see them put away or considered obsolete in the near future.

 

[Haavarla]

Hopefully you are right.

If you fancy the Bear, then you gonna love this vid:

Engl02 - YouTube

Especially around 0:50min when the Bear emerging through the cloudsope
Regarding the props on Tu-95MSM, they have seen some alteration on the two Propellers distance(less noise). I'm not sure, but they might even newer prop blades as well..
I'll try to search for sources.

On a slightly different note, Pilots and crew on Russian Bombers located at Engels AB report flying 150hour on a year basis. They sure have come a long way now.. looking back to the 90's.

http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=11436633@egNews

 

[Eeshaan]

Thanks, nice video, Haavarla. I find it a little funny that the Tu-95 looks like it's using windmills instead of propellers. Looks awesome nonetheless.

Also, is it just me who finds Russian made aircraft to be moreaesthetically pleasing than US & Eu made aircraft ?