Russia successfully tests hypersonic ICBM

highsea

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redsoulja, well that's something of an oversimplification, but partially true. Any defensive system can be overwhelmed by sheer numbers, so if a country with a large enough arsenal were to fire everything, undoubtedly some would get through. Even so, it's better to intercept some than none.

The US isn't too worried about responsible countries that posess these weapons. They understand the consequesces of using them, and they are not threatening anyone with them. It's the rogue nations that we are most concerned about, those with unstable governments or governments that may think they "have nothing to lose".

In the case of nations that are hostile to the US, like North Korea or Iran, the idea is two-fold. The obvious goal is not just to be able to intercept a missile fired at the US or another nation, but also to deter these nations from going down that path to start with. If a country knows that such weapons can be countered, they may choose not to develop them in the first place, because their strategic value becomes questionable. These weapons are primarily blackmail weapons. If you take away the effectiveness of the weapon, you eliminate the ability of the regime to engage in the blackmail (see NorK's recent threats to Japan).

What I think we are going to see in the future, unfortunately, is a buildup of nuclear weapons in the Mid East, Korean peninsula and Japan. The US has 40,000 troops in South Korea, and these troops are very much in the line of fire. If North Korea does not come in line with the International community, the US will pull these troops back, which means that South Korea would need a nuclear deterrent to NorK. The same goes for Japan. I believe Saudi Arabia already has a couple Chinese nukes to counter Iran. And we all know about the Pak-India sutuation.

NMD is not just "National Missile Defence" anymore, in fact the acronym has been changed to GMD, which stands for Ground Based Missile Defence. It's really a global shield, not just restricted to North America. Most of the energy has gone towards boost phase interception, with THAAD, SM-3, and ABL getting the most attention. These systems would be employed far from US soil, and possibly even in situations that do not necessarily directly involve the US (such as Iran-Saudi Arabia or Iran-Israel). If the US detected a nuclear missile heading for any city in the world, and had the ability to stop it, I have no doubt we would.
 

omegasigma

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The US isn't too worried about responsible countries that posess these weapons. They understand the consequesces of using them, and they are not threatening anyone with them. It's the rogue nations that we are most concerned about, those with unstable governments or governments that may think they "have nothing to lose".
Highsea is right. The current NMD program of the US is to protect against rouge countries, primarily North Korea. That is why Japan is also interested. An effective NMD for Japan and US would have made it easy for the US to negotiate with North Korea (South Korea would still be in harms way.)
 

omegasigma

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srirangan said:
>> Russia successfully tests hypersonic ICBM
Aren't all ICBM's supposed to be hypersonic?
ICBMs in the USAF arsenal are subsonic or supersonic.

Boeing is currently working on a hypersonic ICBM based on the Titan platform. This will be a credible balancer against Russia.


Mod Edit: Gf: Layout fixed, "Running" posts merged.
 

Pathfinder-X

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Which brings back to where the world left off in the 1950's when the nuclear arm race started. The best way to counter ICBM is mutual assured destruction.
 

highsea

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omegasigma said:
srirangan said:
>> Russia successfully tests hypersonic ICBM
Aren't all ICBM's supposed to be hypersonic?
ICBMs in the USAF arsenal are subsonic or supersonic.
A MX or Minuteman is going about 15,000 mph at burnout, and accelerates on re-entry. Mach 20-23 is hardly subsonic.

All ICBM's are hypersonic. The current hypersonic projects under development (Hy-Fly and Falcon), are for delivering conventional weapons.
 

srirangan

Banned Member
Exactly.

The only thing that seperates this Topol III from the rest is the land mobility of the launcher. Shd be comparable if not better than Minuteman III.
 

highsea

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It's not much different than we have seen in the past, in real terms. Russia can't afford to keep a fleet of missile subs active, so the Topol-M gives them a mobile alternative. The US had a rail garrison in the Peacemaker (MX) days, with 2 missiles per train depot'ed in mountains and Air Force bases under SAC authority. The rail garrisons have since stood down (1991), but they could always be reactivated if needed. Right now all MX's are silo based, AFAIK.
 

Pathfinder-X

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highsea said:
It's not much different than we have seen in the past, in real terms. Russia can't afford to keep a fleet of missile subs active, so the Topol-M gives them a mobile alternative. The US had a rail garrison in the Peacemaker (MX) days, with 2 missiles per train depot'ed in mountains and Air Force bases under SAC authority. The rail garrisons have since stood down (1991), but they could always be reactivated if needed. Right now all MX's are silo based, AFAIK.
One of the few things I notice is that U.S doesn't seems to deploy wheel-vehicle based ICBM launchers. That could lead to greater loss of ICBM force strength if attacked.
 

highsea

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50% of the US strategic warheads are SSBN based. 14 Ohio class boats each carrying 24 Trident 2 missiles with up to 8 warheads each should provide enough deterrent, don't you think? The US has no need for wheeled-vehicle based ICBM's.
 

omegasigma

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highsea said:
omegasigma said:
srirangan said:
>> Russia successfully tests hypersonic ICBM
Aren't all ICBM's supposed to be hypersonic?
ICBMs in the USAF arsenal are subsonic or supersonic.
A MX or Minuteman is going about 15,000 mph at burnout, and accelerates on re-entry. Mach 20-23 is hardly subsonic.

All ICBM's are hypersonic. The current hypersonic projects under development (Hy-Fly and Falcon), are for delivering conventional weapons.
Subsonic and supersonic are about speed. Hypersonic is not about speed. Hypersonic propulsion systems use air-breathing technology. It uses RAM-jet or SCRAM-jet technology for propulsion. So they do not have to carry liquified compressed oxygen.
 

omegasigma

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Here is some more info:

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001053.html

HYPERSONIC MISSILE'S NEXT STAGE
The Pentagon's project to build a hypersonic missile that can hit targets a continent away has just shifted into a higher gear. The initial, design phase of the Falcon (short for "Force Application and Launch from the Continental United States") project is now done. And Lockheed Martin has been given the beginnings of a $105 million contract to develop systems that will form the building blocks of the faster-than-sound weapons.

By 2010, the Defense Department wants a bunker-busting missile that can fly into near-space, and then come crashing down on a target 3,000 miles away, at four times the speed of sound. (Currently, the military's Tomahawk cruise missiles lollygag around at measly 550 miles per hour, about three-quarters of sound's speed.) The idea is to be able to wipe out a bad guy as soon as he's detected. But there's an added bonus to having long-range, super-fast missiles: it could make the U.S. military less dependent on bases overseas. That means fewer unstable allies to piss off.

To bring Falcon along, Lockheed is leading a team that's developing "durable, high temperature materials, thermal protection systems, advanced guidance, navigation and control, efficient aerodynamic configurations, and innovative propulsion concepts," according to a press release from Darpa, the Pentagon's mad science division. It'll take about three years to put these systems together, Darpa figures. And then, it's on to Phase III of the Falcon project: flight testing the new, hypersonic killers.
 

highsea

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omegasigma said:
Subsonic and supersonic are about speed. Hypersonic is not about speed.
That is incorrect by the current use of the term. Hypersonic flight is generally accepted as any flight in excess of Mach 5. The way you get there is irrelevant. The Space Shuttle, Rockets, etc. are all hypersonic vehicles. Scramjet propulsion is being developed to achieve hypersonic speeds in an atmospheric vehicle.

Look at your OP. The Topol-M uses a solid rocket booster, not a scramjet, yet you still refer to it as a hypersonic missile.

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Theories_of_Flight/Hypersonics/TH23.htm
 

omegasigma

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highsea said:
omegasigma said:
Subsonic and supersonic are about speed. Hypersonic is not about speed.
That is incorrect by the current use of the term. Hypersonic flight is generally accepted as any flight in excess of Mach 5. The way you get there is irrelevant. The Space Shuttle, Rockets, etc. are all hypersonic vehicles. Scramjet propulsion is being developed to achieve hypersonic speeds in an atmospheric vehicle.

Look at your OP. The Topol-M uses a solid rocket booster, not a scramjet, yet you still refer to it as a hypersonic missile.

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Theories_of_Flight/Hypersonics/TH23.htm
I am sorry. You are right. Thank you.
 
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