Russia - General Discussion.

[John Fedup]

The interesting part is the reason, the prices for exported electricity are now higher than internal Chinese prices. Chinese prices have remained static, it's Russian prices in the Far East that have increased due to an easing of controls on electricity prices and growing demand in the Russian Far East. Note the electricity that was exported previously was tied to a Russian hydro-electric dam. The article doesn't explain why there's a growth in domestic demand, and I can't think of an obvious reason myself.

 

[John Fedup]

Perhaps the growth isn't Russian but rather exports to NK for services rendered in Ukraine.

 

[Feanor]

Perhaps the growth isn't Russian but rather exports to NK for services rendered in Ukraine.

It's certainly possible, but the article mentions a "liberalization of prices" which suggests Russia has limited or ended subsidies.

 

[John Fedup]

IIRC China is planning a massive dam project in Tibet, albeit years away assuming it actually happens so future electricity exports should decrease. China also has a rapidly expanding nuclear power generation program.so perhaps mineral exports are Russia’s only revenue source wrt China in the next couple of decades.

 

[SolarisKenzo]

So, based on more research from russian sources:
- Russia had to stop subsidies in most regions. Reasons are various: less income from oil and gas (-25% according to the Russian Finance Ministry compared to January 2025) and no available resources. Electricity prices up almost 45% in some areas.
- Chinese electricity prices are static (slight slight increase but really not relevant) thanks to, for example, coal overcapacity in Inner Mongolia and near Regions.
- China, as reported by Kommersant (one of the major russian economic media), isn't even buying the minimum amount determined by contract, which is 12 MWe (basically nothing, the equivalent of a single large offshore wind turbine)...

 

[KipPotapych]

I will move this to the more appropriate thread.

It would be stuck in misery just like belarus or russia itself.

Your knowledge and understanding of the region is very limited and wrong.

I could not travel to Mariupol. Im spanish, i would be arrested there and possible disappear.

While an act of disappearance is a possibility, especially if you tell them what you write here (haha), you can travel to Mariupol and won’t be arrested for no reason.

There is a travel warning for ukrainian cities under russian occupation and not even Russia is save for europeans to travel.

Is there no exact same warning for other parts of Ukraine?

Just checked, out if curiosity, travel advisories on the Canadian government website. The advisory for Russia and Ukraine is the same - do not travel. Israel enjoys the same “rating”. Travel to Albania is completely green though, while advisory for Spain is to “exercise high degree of caution”, same as India, Jamaica, Honduras, etc. So not all green in paradise, it appears.

As for european or not, our cultures are fundamentally different to Russia. Both in mentality, religion, world view, art ect.

Is that why Spain is the preferred spot for the Russian organized Crime to set up shop, in spite of occasional (every few years) raids by the Spanish law enforcement?

Ukraine is also very different to Russia. Far more catholic, far more order ect.

Lol. More or less Catholic has nothing to do with anything. You should spend some real-life time with people from both places and then play the game of “find the difference”.

Care to explain then why large areas of Russia live in absolute misery and poverty?

Here is the thing. You need to educate yourself because you have a very rough and generally wrong idea about what you are talking about. Here is an example, from Wikipedia again:



or



It just happened to be of convenience that both, Russia and Spain, can be seen on the same screenshot.

Have you ever visited Russia`?

Yes, I have. Several places, including Moscow and a few villages around; Stavropol, but mostly the city itself with a few short trips outside; Barnaul and many places around, a short flight from Barnaul to some a place I cannot remember the name of and back, then taking a three-day long train ride to southern Kazakhstan from there; as well as Ufa (in the winter, to boot). I also know many people from all over Russia, Ukraine (including the occupied territories), and other Post Soviet republics, and all over the world. I also know many Canadian guys who went drilling for oil in some of the most remote places on earth (being in Russia) and many spent years living there before coming back to Canada for good.

I have, when i was 14 years old with my father in 2019. He was there on a business trip and took me with him. We were in Irkutsk and the living conditions outside the city centre looks dystopian.

You are young. That’s the thing that is sticking out most. It was also apparent from your previous posts.

Living conditions in sunny Spain, a place with better environmental conditions on the planet year round, a tourist destination for the warmth and ocean, are very different from those in Irkutsk Siberia. Outside of this thread, you said that in some remote villages they didn’t have fresh vegetables and fruit, mostly canned stuff and potatoes. I understand why it would be hard to grasp for a Spaniard why it would be the case. Realities in many places on Earth, however, are not such as they are in Spain, especially in the colder populated regions. The current foecast for Irkutsk:



Funny that the current 31 below is on the warmer side of things in the coming week.

You also said that even in Canada in remote places there was good stuff in the markets. Well, having lived in remote places in Canada myself for many years and having travelled to even more remote places as well, I can tell you that there are no markets with good stuff. If you are lucky to live in a more or less larger town and have a supermarket, you will have access to Mexican tomatoes and cucumbers, the leafy greens, potatoes and other root vegetables, as well as apples. Sometimes, it gets tiring walking into a store and seeing only apples for fruit, a whole bunch of varieties, but apples it is. Then, season changes and more things become available. Prepackaged stuff is always there though! We are way up there, compared to some village on Lake Baikal, but the point remains. I can guarantee you 100%, without a little doubt in my mind, that if I take you on a ride around the not really that remote places, yet still “in the boonies”, here in Alberta, Canada, you will say the exact same thing that “everything is sad and depressing” and it would become the second place you ever visited that you wouldn’t want to live in, your first admittedly being Russia. In fact, I can take you for a drive on Trans Canada Highway and you will see places that feel exactly the same in Eastern Canada. Driving towards Alaska and the past few hours before hitting the US border, you wouldn’t believe you are in Canada and might confuse it with Russia, actually. But it is one of the best drives a guy can take in their lifetimes, in my opinion.

What I can tell you is that even though you say you have visited 40 or whatever it was countries, and Russia is the only one of those you would not want to live in, you haven’t visited much. Mind you, I wouldn’t want to live in Russia either, though for different reasons. There are hardly any places in the United States, for example, where I would even consider living in and I have been to a great many. Some remote places, I also found to look sad and depressing, to use your wording. Same goes for other countries.

At 21 though, I also had some perspectives and opinions, as well as tonnes of knowledge, which I did not mind sharing, haha.

Was one of those trips where when you arrive back home you thank god. For all the shortcomings that Spain or the EU may have...we are so lucky...

See, when I came back home to the boonies in December, when it is steady -30-40 Celsius for 2-3 weeks straight (it literally does not get warmer than -30) from some much warmer place, I would often think it is great to be home. Then I hit the bush and the hills the next day, either hunting or just for a walk, and think that this is the best thing in the world, watching a herd of elk or a moose feeding, while you slowly grow icicles on your beard and mustache. Many people here in Canada too think this is insane (and way too cold). Many also think that it is insane to live where I did, even though there are many way more remote places. Alas, people are different, while they really are all the same.

So I would recommend to live longer, open your mind, and gain some perspective. Long life ahead. What you should have done is talk to the people, see what they think, how they feel about the places they live in and so on. That would probably help a bit with understanding different realities.

I am not even going to comment on your convictions of how different you and Euros are from the, what you called them, “Nigerians with snow” - that is, Russians - and that all they do is terrorize people all around. You say it is a European saying, by the way, but I have never heard of it having travelled through out Europe and knowing many Euros who moved here, to Canada. I understand the high horse you are sitting on is on the way of rationalizing things and seeing the reality, even as little as how racist and chauvinist your little saying there is. But you are also young, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I also understand, that being young and all (though there plenty of people here who are, I think, much older, who share similar views), you may not realize that Europe terrorized much of the world, beginning with Australia and heading all the way to the Americas, literally around the globe, for centuries. They have drawn up maps that are the cause of wars to this very day. They nearly exterminated populations of many native residents of Americas, caused great harm in Asia and Middle East. Africa is a complete mess. Slavery and atrocities attached to that (and still seeing yourself as superior to those that have been abused for centuries). And so on. It was the Europeans, including Russians, who were the core actors of both world wars.

Funny enough, it hasn’t even been much more than few decades since the real colonial shit took place, while a lot of echoes of it still remains. The last residential schools here in Canada were closed as late as 80s or even 90s and a whole bunch of natives still live worse than those people you met somewhere in Siberia. Ghettos in the United Stated are an abomination (but remember that there cannot be a racism problem because they had a black president and for two terms to boot!). I can really go on for a very long time. Somehow though, many of us “white people”, for the most part, got on this horse that is quite high and looking from there as some exceptional example of a better race or civilization, the Euros in your case, or “Trans-Atlantic community”, the westerners, or insert your own term. Better because more Catholic… That would be the train of thought of the times of Crusades, over a millennium ago.

 

[Beltrami2005]

I will move this to the more appropriate thread.


Your knowledge and understanding of the region is very limited and wrong.


While an act of disappearance is a possibility, especially if you tell them what you write here (haha), you can travel to Mariupol and won’t be arrested for no reason.


Is there no exact same warning for other parts of Ukraine?

Just checked, out if curiosity, travel advisories on the Canadian government website. The advisory for Russia and Ukraine is the same - do not travel. Israel enjoys the same “rating”. Travel to Albania is completely green though, while advisory for Spain is to “exercise high degree of caution”, same as India, Jamaica, Honduras, etc. So not all green in paradise, it appears.


Is that why Spain is the preferred spot for the Russian organized Crime to set up shop, in spite of occasional (every few years) raids by the Spanish law enforcement?


Lol. More or less Catholic has nothing to do with anything. You should spend some real-life time with people from both places and then play the game of “find the difference”.


Here is the thing. You need to educate yourself because you have a very rough and generally wrong idea about what you are talking about. Here is an example, from Wikipedia again:

View attachment 54194

or

View attachment 54195

It just happened to be of convenience that both, Russia and Spain, can be seen on the same screenshot.


Yes, I have. Several places, including Moscow and a few villages around; Stavropol, but mostly the city itself with a few short trips outside; Barnaul and many places around, a short flight from Barnaul to some a place I cannot remember the name of and back, then taking a three-day long train ride to southern Kazakhstan from there; as well as Ufa (in the winter, to boot). I also know many people from all over Russia, Ukraine (including the occupied territories), and other Post Soviet republics, and all over the world. I also know many Canadian guys who went drilling for oil in some of the most remote places on earth (being in Russia) and many spent years living there before coming back to Canada for good.


You are young. That’s the thing that is sticking out most. It was also apparent from your previous posts.

Living conditions in sunny Spain, a place with better environmental conditions on the planet year round, a tourist destination for the warmth and ocean, are very different from those in Irkutsk Siberia. Outside of this thread, you said that in some remote villages they didn’t have fresh vegetables and fruit, mostly canned stuff and potatoes. I understand why it would be hard to grasp for a Spaniard why it would be the case. Realities in many places on Earth, however, are not such as they are in Spain, especially in the colder populated regions. The current foecast for Irkutsk:

View attachment 54196

Funny that the current 31 below is on the warmer side of things in the coming week.

You also said that even in Canada in remote places there was good stuff in the markets. Well, having lived in remote places in Canada myself for many years and having travelled to even more remote places as well, I can tell you that there are no markets with good stuff. If you are lucky to live in a more or less larger town and have a supermarket, you will have access to Mexican tomatoes and cucumbers, the leafy greens, potatoes and other root vegetables, as well as apples. Sometimes, it gets tiring walking into a store and seeing only apples for fruit, a whole bunch of varieties, but apples it is. Then, season changes and more things become available. Prepackaged stuff is always there though! We are way up there, compared to some village on Lake Baikal, but the point remains. I can guarantee you 100%, without a little doubt in my mind, that if I take you on a ride around the not really that remote places, yet still “in the boonies”, here in Alberta, Canada, you will say the exact same thing that “everything is sad and depressing” and it would become the second place you ever visited that you wouldn’t want to live in, your first admittedly being Russia. In fact, I can take you for a drive on Trans Canada Highway and you will see places that feel exactly the same in Eastern Canada. Driving towards Alaska and the past few hours before hitting the US border, you wouldn’t believe you are in Canada and might confuse it with Russia, actually. But it is one of the best drives a guy can take in their lifetimes, in my opinion.

What I can tell you is that even though you say you have visited 40 or whatever it was countries, and Russia is the only one of those you would not want to live in, you haven’t visited much. Mind you, I wouldn’t want to live in Russia either, though for different reasons. There are hardly any places in the United States, for example, where I would even consider living in and I have been to a great many. Some remote places, I also found to look sad and depressing, to use your wording. Same goes for other countries.

At 21 though, I also had some perspectives and opinions, as well as tonnes of knowledge, which I did not mind sharing, haha.


See, when I came back home to the boonies in December, when it is steady -30-40 Celsius for 2-3 weeks straight (it literally does not get warmer than -30) from some much warmer place, I would often think it is great to be home. Then I hit the bush and the hills the next day, either hunting or just for a walk, and think that this is the best thing in the world, watching a herd of elk or a moose feeding, while you slowly grow icicles on your beard and mustache. Many people here in Canada too think this is insane (and way too cold). Many also think that it is insane to live where I did, even though there are many way more remote places. Alas, people are different, while they really are all the same.

So I would recommend to live longer, open your mind, and gain some perspective. Long life ahead. What you should have done is talk to the people, see what they think, how they feel about the places they live in and so on. That would probably help a bit with understanding different realities.

I am not even going to comment on your convictions of how different you and Euros are from the, what you called them, “Nigerians with snow” - that is, Russians - and that all they do is terrorize people all around. You say it is a European saying, by the way, but I have never heard of it having travelled through out Europe and knowing many Euros who moved here, to Canada. I understand the high horse you are sitting on is on the way of rationalizing things and seeing the reality, even as little as how racist and chauvinist your little saying there is. But you are also young, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I also understand, that being young and all (though there plenty of people here who are, I think, much older, who share similar views), you may not realize that Europe terrorized much of the world, beginning with Australia and heading all the way to the Americas, literally around the globe, for centuries. They have drawn up maps that are the cause of wars to this very day. They nearly exterminated populations of many native residents of Americas, caused great harm in Asia and Middle East. Africa is a complete mess. Slavery and atrocities attached to that (and still seeing yourself as superior to those that have been abused for centuries). And so on. It was the Europeans, including Russians, who were the core actors of both world wars.

Funny enough, it hasn’t even been much more than few decades since the real colonial shit took place, while a lot of echoes of it still remains. The last residential schools here in Canada were closed as late as 80s or even 90s and a whole bunch of natives still live worse than those people you met somewhere in Siberia. Ghettos in the United Stated are an abomination (but remember that there cannot be a racism problem because they had a black president and for two terms to boot!). I can really go on for a very long time. Somehow though, many of us “white people”, for the most part, got on this horse that is quite high and looking from there as some exceptional example of a better race or civilization, the Euros in your case, or “Trans-Atlantic community”, the westerners, or insert your own term. Better because more Catholic… That would be the train of thought of the times of Crusades, over a millennium ago.

I want counter your arguments with a simple question...

Why as all russian elite living in Europe...but no European elites in Russia?

Lawrows daughter in London and Barcelona
Slovjev son in London.
Putins daughters in Zurich and Munich..
Medvedevs son in Paris and Rome.

Why do you think they had all their Superyachts in Spain, Italy and France...why not at their own areas at the black sea? Why you believe the had their palaces and villas build here?

It appears incredible onsided since obviously there is little to no wish from us to be there but they have extreme high wishs to be here.

You know in the countries i visited were also poor ones like Bolivia or Madagascar and both were not as dystopian as Irkutsk. The cold cant be the reason for it to look so depressing. In 2024 we were on a cruise at Greenland. Ilulissat, Sisimiut, Nuuk and i assure you the people there were the kindest you can image.

 

[crest]

I want counter your arguments with a simple question...

Why as all russian elite living in Europe...but no European elites in Russia?

Lawrows daughter in London and Barcelona
Slovjev son in London.
Putins daughters in Zurich and Munich..
Medvedevs son in Paris and Rome.

Why do you think they had all their Superyachts in Spain, Italy and France...why not at their own areas at the black sea? Why you believe the had their palaces and villas build here?

It appears incredible onsided since obviously there is little to no wish from us to be there but they have extreme high wishs to be here.

You know in the countries i visited were also poor ones like Bolivia or Madagascar and both were not as dystopian as Irkutsk. The cold cant be the reason for it to look so depressing. In 2024 we were on a cruise at Greenland. Ilulissat, Sisimiut, Nuuk and i assure you the people there were the kindest you can image.

The fliers living were they do has a few answers
1 sanctions why would a European move to Russia were his wealth is limited in what he can buy?
2 many oligarchs move when they fall out of favour with Putin or to keep there non Russian business from being sanctioned out of existence
3 this one I'm not to sure on but I think most of the big business in Russia is already Russian controled Russia itself not being a exceptional travelers destination makes it unlikely the mega rich would want to permanently move there.

 

[KipPotapych]

I want counter your arguments with a simple question...

Why as all russian elite living in Europe...but no European elites in Russia?

“All Russian elite lives in Europe”. Well, of course, the absolute majority of them live in Europe because over 2/3 of the Russian population resides in Europe. It’s like asking why are poodles dogs, but dogs are not poodles.

Lawrows daughter in London and Barcelona
Slovjev son in London.
Putins daughters in Zurich and Munich..
Medvedevs son in Paris and Rome.

I don’t know whose kids live where. I know that Medvedev’s son is most definitely in Russia, having attended Moscow State University, as well as Moscow State Institute of International Affairs and now works in Russia.

Dmitry Medvedev's Son Works For Russian Military Giant, RFE/RL Finds

www.rferl.org

No idea about Lavrov’s daughter in London or elsewhere. Google provides mostly Ukrainian sources that I didn’t read, as well some UK sanctions on some probably daughter… not exactly interested in soap operas myself.

Putin’s daughters are certainly in Russia.

Why Putin’s Family Is Stepping Into the Limelight

After years in the shadows, Putin’s family is increasingly visible in Russia, and making its mark on business and government.

carnegieendowment.org

No idea about Solovyov’s son and don’t particularly care to find out. He also is not exactly Oprah Winfrey, but a mix of Sean Hannity and Alex Jones, neither rof which are what you call “elite”.

To return to your question, “all Russian elite” is most certainly not outside Russia, but is in Europe. Many send their kids to the UK and EU to study, this is the main reason. They send them to private schools upon graduation from which those kids get enrolled into some of the most prestigious universities. Consider this: beside the obvious benefits for the individuals themselves, they also get to form friendships and relations, sometimes marriage, with their equals of the Euro/British elite studying in this same schools, etc.

I will ask you a question here as well (though you are not very good at answering questions, it seems), why do they choose Europe, not the US (yes, sometimes they do) or China (some of the elite universities, especially in science, are located in China nowadays, not in Europe)?

Why do you think they had all their Superyachts in Spain, Italy and France...why not at their own areas at the black sea? Why you believe the had their palaces and villas build here?

I will let you tackle this one out on your own. I will provide you with some hints though. For example, most of the world’s super yachts are parked off the coasts of France, Monaco, Italy, Spain, Dubai, Florida, etc? Not in New York, Los Angeles, Busan, Tokyo, etc. There must be some magic there that can be (easily) worked out.

Why are they purchasing real estate in Spain, France, etc? Well, probably for the same reasons. The UK and New York for different reasons. You do not hear them buying much of the property in Norway, Germany, or Canada, for example. If I lived in Toronto, my “villa” would likely be in Florida or southern Europe (definitely not Florida in my case, if such existed), not in Hawaii or New Zealand, for example.

It appears incredible onsided since obviously there is little to no wish from us to be there but they have extreme high wishs to be here.

Of course, other reasons for real estate purchases include, for example, parking money out of Russia and real assets instead of (or in addition to) a Swiss/Cyprus bank account. If things were to go sour, which they did for many of the “elite”, they can split and be set for the rest of their lives, as well as the next generation, and so on. Something called hedging.

You know in the countries i visited were also poor ones like Bolivia or Madagascar and both were not as dystopian as Irkutsk. The cold cant be the reason for it to look so depressing.

Well, I will say again, to a young Spaniard with sun usually in his face, a place like Irkutsk may appear to be quite dystopian and depressing. Why Madagascar wasn’t much more so is the question you should ask yourself. I mean probably (my wild guess here) over 70% of the population in Madagascar would dream of having a readily available potato with some preserves to eat at their will. Likely widespread disease, etc. No?

Ok, I just went on and googled the Madagascar situation, from the EU website: poverty, starvation, widespread disease, and so on.

Madagascar’s forgotten crisis: poverty and hunger on the front line of climate change

Each year, Madagascar faces recurring droughts, floods and cyclones, which devastate the crops of subsistence farmers, who make up a significant portion of the population,

civil-protection-humanitarian-aid.ec.europa.eu

Why didn’t you feel depressed? You should ask yourself that question. Maybe your shrink can help to work that out too. I know for myself, visiting similar countries (or better) and seeing those skinny (I guess beyond skinny would be more appropriate) kids with swollen bellies living in shattered sheds covered with cloth or some remains of a tarp… Seriously, dude, wtf are you even talking about? Am I being trolled? Certainly feels like it.

In 2024 we were on a cruise at Greenland. Ilulissat, Sisimiut, Nuuk and i assure you the people there were the kindest you can image.

Were people in Russia that organized a trip to lake Baykal for you and your dad in 2019 not as kind?


I am failing to see the point of your post. No one here can help you with how you feel about one place or another.

 

[Beltrami2005]

“All Russian elite lives in Europe”. Well, of course, the absolute majority of them live in Europe because over 2/3 of the Russian population resides in Europe. It’s like asking why are poodles dogs, but dogs are not poodles.


I don’t know whose kids live where. I know that Medvedev’s son is most definitely in Russia, having attended Moscow State University, as well as Moscow State Institute of International Affairs and now works in Russia.

Dmitry Medvedev's Son Works For Russian Military Giant, RFE/RL Finds

www.rferl.org

No idea about Lavrov’s daughter in London or elsewhere. Google provides mostly Ukrainian sources that I didn’t read, as well some UK sanctions on some probably daughter… not exactly interested in soap operas myself.

Putin’s daughters are certainly in Russia.

Why Putin’s Family Is Stepping Into the Limelight

After years in the shadows, Putin’s family is increasingly visible in Russia, and making its mark on business and government.

carnegieendowment.org

No idea about Solovyov’s son and don’t particularly care to find out. He also is not exactly Oprah Winfrey, but a mix of Sean Hannity and Alex Jones, neither rof which are what you call “elite”.

To return to your question, “all Russian elite” is most certainly not outside Russia, but is in Europe. Many send their kids to the UK and EU to study, this is the main reason. They send them to private schools upon graduation from which those kids get enrolled into some of the most prestigious universities. Consider this: beside the obvious benefits for the individuals themselves, they also get to form friendships and relations, sometimes marriage, with their equals of the Euro/British elite studying in this same schools, etc.

I will ask you a question here as well (though you are not very good at answering questions, it seems), why do they choose Europe, not the US (yes, sometimes they do) or China (some of the elite universities, especially in science, are located in China nowadays, not in Europe)?


I will let you tackle this one out on your own. I will provide you with some hints though. For example, most of the world’s super yachts are parked off the coasts of France, Monaco, Italy, Spain, Dubai, Florida, etc? Not in New York, Los Angeles, Busan, Tokyo, etc. There must be some magic there that can be (easily) worked out.

Why are they purchasing real estate in Spain, France, etc? Well, probably for the same reasons. The UK and New York for different reasons. You do not hear them buying much of the property in Norway, Germany, or Canada, for example. If I lived in Toronto, my “villa” would likely be in Florida or southern Europe (definitely not Florida in my case, if such existed), not in Hawaii or New Zealand, for example.


Of course, other reasons for real estate purchases include, for example, parking money out of Russia and real assets instead of (or in addition to) a Swiss/Cyprus bank account. If things were to go sour, which they did for many of the “elite”, they can split and be set for the rest of their lives, as well as the next generation, and so on. Something called hedging.


Well, I will say again, to a young Spaniard with sun usually in his face, a place like Irkutsk may appear to be quite dystopian and depressing. Why Madagascar wasn’t much more so is the question you should ask yourself. I mean probably (my wild guess here) over 70% of the population in Madagascar would dream of having a readily available potato with some preserves to eat at their will. Likely widespread disease, etc. No?

Ok, I just went on and googled the Madagascar situation, from the EU website: poverty, starvation, widespread disease, and so on.

Madagascar’s forgotten crisis: poverty and hunger on the front line of climate change

Each year, Madagascar faces recurring droughts, floods and cyclones, which devastate the crops of subsistence farmers, who make up a significant portion of the population,

civil-protection-humanitarian-aid.ec.europa.eu

Why didn’t you feel depressed? You should ask yourself that question. Maybe your shrink can help to work that out too. I know for myself, visiting similar countries (or better) and seeing those skinny (I guess beyond skinny would be more appropriate) kids with swollen bellies living in shattered sheds covered with cloth or some remains of a tarp… Seriously, dude, wtf are you even talking about? Am I being trolled? Certainly feels like it.


Were people in Russia that organized a trip to lake Baykal for you and your dad in 2019 not as kind?


I am failing to see the point of your post. No one here can help you with how you feel about one place or another.

I assume you are russian or of russian ancestry. Only other option is serbian ^^

1. They are all out of Europe now because sanctions. You wont find any of them left here now.
2. Most of their property yachts and villas got taken away so i doubt it was smart of them to store evrything here. I guess they underestimated how Europe responds?

3. Let me tell you i said Madgascar is very very poor yes. But its not like Russia. It has amazing nature, lemurs. The people are poor yes but have happiness. Its hard to describe in english but they were cheerful and you could joke with them alot. You could see they try to get through life.

Irkutsk was different. Outside the center were mostly rotten down wood houses. You saw many many people who had obvious alcoholic problems. I tried to find the right word and think i found it, what you had in Irkutsk was absolute apathy. Its like a shroud that covers evrything.

And yes the women who guided our tour was very kind and she said exactly that, most people are "dead inside" with apathy. They wait that someone comes and helps them but nobody comes and they themself dont have the will to do something.

Dont attempt to talk like there are not russian people who know that and who critisize that extreme apathy as well. Also interaction with normal people is almost zero. Nobody there spoke another language (the team aside) and most had no interest to interact with foreigners anyways.

And i did not ask to get help how i feel about a place. I shared my experience that i had in russia. Which happens to be a enemy nation of my own country. No need to convince you. We just happen to have different opinions.

 

[KipPotapych]

1. They are all out of Europe now because sanctions. You wont find any of them left here now.

That is not true. They are not “all out of Europe”. Would you like me to provide sources for that? Because I can.

This is, of course, beyond the point that even if they “all” moved to Russia, most would still be in Europe, haha.

2. Most of their property yachts and villas got taken away so i doubt it was smart of them to store evrything here. I guess they underestimated how Europe responds?

I do not believe those people you are referring to had any sway in the decision making process, so their expectations of the response had no relevance whatsoever.

3. Let me tell you i said Madgascar is very very poor yes. But its not like Russia. It has amazing nature, lemurs. The people are poor yes but have happiness. Its hard to describe in english but they were cheerful and you could joke with them alot. You could see they try to get through life.

We can certainly agree that there are no lemurs in Russia. So like I said, something familiar hits closer to home and Madagascar is certainly not like Russia.

Of note, having visited the Lake Baikal and not be impressed with nature is quite odd, but, again, nature comes in different flavours. I imagine a 14-year old kid could not care less about most of it. Lemurs would certainly be impressive though.

Irkutsk was different. Outside the center were mostly rotten down wood houses. You saw many many people who had obvious alcoholic problems. I tried to find the right word and think i found it, what you had in Irkutsk was absolute apathy. Its like a shroud that covers evrything.

And yes the women who guided our tour was very kind and she said exactly that, most people are "dead inside" with apathy. They wait that someone comes and helps them but nobody comes and they themself dont have the will to do something.

Again, you are basing your said experience on a 6-7-year old memory of a 14-year old kid who may have listened to the “adult conversation”. Furthermore, I am going to reference the AI here (and I am not insisting on the information being correct or not, most probably know this stuff anyway; it has no relevance to the topic at hand, but is served to simply make the point):

At 14, the brain is rapidly maturing, with increased neural connections (myelination) boosting speed, but the logic-focused prefrontal cortexis still developing, leading to more complex thought alongside heightened emotions, risk-taking, and intense peer focus, as the limbic system (emotions) often overpowers the still-maturing judgment center.

So there is also that (and will still be the case for the few years).

Dont attempt to talk like there are not russian people who know that and who critisize that extreme apathy as well. Also interaction with normal people is almost zero. Nobody there spoke another language (the team aside) and most had no interest to interact with foreigners anyways.

You are seeing it all completely wrong. I am not arguing that there are no problems because there are, though not what you necessarily think they are. I am telling you that what you are posting is simply wrong, whether it is the level of poverty you imply, depression, economic development, pretty much you name it. Your impression of Russia is completely wrong, which is completely fine with me.

In the part quoted above, you say that you could not talk to “normal people” (whatever that means) because no one speaks another language. A few things here. First, it isn’t likely some random Russian (or a reasonable adult from any other nation) would be interested in discussing matters of life with a 14-year old Spanish kid even if they spoke another language you could understand (which they could have, but you never talked to them to find out; they could also speak another language that wouldn’t be a common language you would share with them, as you may have seen some Buryats, for instance). This is complete nonsense. A 14-year old kid would also not be interested in talking about apathy and whatever else. This is also nonsense. Next, the base of your opinion is listening to a camp lady allegedly telling stories to the members of your group and she, allegedly, happened to think that every one in Russia is dead inside. I am not sure if you are seeing the problem with this, but this is also nonsense. Next, according to the same camp lady (or you), everyone is waiting for someone to come and help them. Help them with what? Had anyone expressed any need for help? The people themselves have no will to do something, you allegedly heard the lady say. Again, to do what? So, I am going to claim nonsense once again.

To come back to the “another language”. You come to another country, a place deep within, what they call “glubinka” in Russian, meaning a remote, “deep-inside” kind of place, and you expect to be able to speak to them in some language other than Russian (or some other native tongue they may speak). This is a very weird expectation. Most (if not all) of the places I traveled to, once you hit the country road and head deeper into the country, looking for a “real” authentic experience, you are going to have trouble explaining yourself unless you know the language they speak there. This is just reality of life. In fact, travelling to Quebec here in Canada, driving an hour east off Quebec City, you may very well find yourself not being able to explain what you want to find because people straight up do not speak English. If you are a French speaker, on the other hand, you better be prepared to not be understood in most of the country because, aside from their native tongue, most only speak English. Both, French and English are official languages in Canada. Head to the US and see how they feel about your thoughts of hardly anyone speaking language other than English, for the most part.

And i did not ask to get help how i feel about a place.

I didn’t say you needed help, I suggested that you may want to figure out why one of the poorest places on Earth appears to you to be better than one with significantly above average living standards.

I shared my experience that i had in russia.

Yes, exactly, an experience of a 14-year old kid who does not speak the language, in a few-day long visit, listening to a camp lady in some village at Lake Baikal.

Which happens to be a enemy nation of my own country.

Perhaps, this conviction has something to with perceptions formed in a young mind, don’t you think?

No need to convince you. We just happen to have different opinions.

In order to convince someone, one needs to have fairly deep understanding of the subject matter at hand, being able to back their opinion with facts, provide rational thoughts if the evidence is missing or not easy to come by, and so on. Otherwise, their opinion has no relevance at all. Not because it is different, but because it has no base to support its validity. While we can all be impressed by lemurs, especially out in the wild, most of us, I would think, would like to know why you think what you think, if you are out here sharing your thoughts and convictions, trying to have a debate, what metrics you use to measure a country’s economic activity to (incorrectly) declare it being equal to that of another, the criteria you use to (incorrectly) compare naval, as well other military capabilities of one country to another, and so on.

So far, you have either, and mostly, avoided the questions asked or provided answers based on your own thoughts, which, I believe, were shown to be, at best, questionable and, in many cases, simply wrong (with facts directly contradicting the said thoughts provided).


Either way, I think I hit my limit here on this type of debate and will be bowing out from further discussion of the subject, unless something you (or someone else) post tickles my interest.


P. S. and a fun fact: if my memory serves me right, Mil and Kamov (those after whom the Mi- and Ka- helis are named) both were born in Irkutsk, during tsarist Russia, with Irkutsk population, maybe, 10 times less of what it si today (don’t quote me on that number as it is a wild (though somewhat educated guess)). Strangely, not in Moscow or, among the lemurs, in happy Madagascar.

 

[Beltrami2005]

That is not true. They are not “all out of Europe”. Would you like me to provide sources for that? Because I can.

This is, of course, beyond the point that even if they “all” moved to Russia, most would still be in Europe, haha.


I do not believe those people you are referring to had any sway in the decision making process, so their expectations of the response had no relevance whatsoever.


We can certainly agree that there are no lemurs in Russia. So like I said, something familiar hits closer to home and Madagascar is certainly not like Russia.

Of note, having visited the Lake Baikal and not be impressed with nature is quite odd, but, again, nature comes in different flavours. I imagine a 14-year old kid could not care less about most of it. Lemurs would certainly be impressive though.


Again, you are basing your said experience on a 6-7-year old memory of a 14-year old kid who may have listened to the “adult conversation”. Furthermore, I am going to reference the AI here (and I am not insisting on the information being correct or not, most probably know this stuff anyway; it has no relevance to the topic at hand, but is served to simply make the point):

At 14, the brain is rapidly maturing, with increased neural connections (myelination) boosting speed, but the logic-focused prefrontal cortexis still developing, leading to more complex thought alongside heightened emotions, risk-taking, and intense peer focus, as the limbic system (emotions) often overpowers the still-maturing judgment center.

So there is also that (and will still be the case for the few years).


You are seeing it all completely wrong. I am not arguing that there are no problems because there are, though not what you necessarily think they are. I am telling you that what you are posting is simply wrong, whether it is the level of poverty you imply, depression, economic development, pretty much you name it. Your impression of Russia is completely wrong, which is completely fine with me.

In the part quoted above, you say that you could not talk to “normal people” (whatever that means) because no one speaks another language. A few things here. First, it isn’t likely some random Russian (or a reasonable adult from any other nation) would be interested in discussing matters of life with a 14-year old Spanish kid even if they spoke another language you could understand (which they could have, but you never talked to them to find out; they could also speak another language that wouldn’t be a common language you would share with them, as you may have seen some Buryats, for instance). This is complete nonsense. A 14-year old kid would also not be interested in talking about apathy and whatever else. This is also nonsense. Next, the base of your opinion is listening to a camp lady allegedly telling stories to the members of your group and she, allegedly, happened to think that every one in Russia is dead inside. I am not sure if you are seeing the problem with this, but this is also nonsense. Next, according to the same camp lady (or you), everyone is waiting for someone to come and help them. Help them with what? Had anyone expressed any need for help? The people themselves have no will to do something, you allegedly heard the lady say. Again, to do what? So, I am going to claim nonsense once again.

To come back to the “another language”. You come to another country, a place deep within, what they call “glubinka” in Russian, meaning a remote, “deep-inside” kind of place, and you expect to be able to speak to them in some language other than Russian (or some other native tongue they may speak). This is a very weird expectation. Most (if not all) of the places I traveled to, once you hit the country road and head deeper into the country, looking for a “real” authentic experience, you are going to have trouble explaining yourself unless you know the language they speak there. This is just reality of life. In fact, travelling to Quebec here in Canada, driving an hour east off Quebec City, you may very well find yourself not being able to explain what you want to find because people straight up do not speak English. If you are a French speaker, on the other hand, you better be prepared to not be understood in most of the country because, aside from their native tongue, most only speak English. Both, French and English are official languages in Canada. Head to the US and see how they feel about your thoughts of hardly anyone speaking language other than English, for the most part.


I didn’t say you needed help, I suggested that you may want to figure out why one of the poorest places on Earth appears to you to be better than one with significantly above average living standards.


Yes, exactly, an experience of a 14-year old kid who does not speak the language, in a few-day long visit, listening to a camp lady in some village at Lake Baikal.


Perhaps, this conviction has something to with perceptions formed in a young mind, don’t you think?


In order to convince someone, one needs to have fairly deep understanding of the subject matter at hand, being able to back their opinion with facts, provide rational thoughts if the evidence is missing or not easy to come by, and so on. Otherwise, their opinion has no relevance at all. Not because it is different, but because it has no base to support its validity. While we can all be impressed by lemurs, especially out in the wild, most of us, I would think, would like to know why you think what you think, if you are out here sharing your thoughts and convictions, trying to have a debate, what metrics you use to measure a country’s economic activity to (incorrectly) declare it being equal to that of another, the criteria you use to (incorrectly) compare naval, as well other military capabilities of one country to another, and so on.

So far, you have either, and mostly, avoided the questions asked or provided answers based on your own thoughts, which, I believe, were shown to be, at best, questionable and, in many cases, simply wrong (with facts directly contradicting the said thoughts provided).


Either way, I think I hit my limit here on this type of debate and will be bowing out from further discussion of the subject, unless something you (or someone else) post tickles my interest.


P. S. and a fun fact: if my memory serves me right, Mil and Kamov (those after whom the Mi- and Ka- helis are named) both were born in Irkutsk, during tsarist Russia, with Irkutsk population, maybe, 10 times less of what it si today (don’t quote me on that number as it is a wild (though somewhat educated guess)). Strangely, not in Moscow or, among the lemurs, in happy Madagascar.

Russia isnt Europe. We already cleared that. Same reason Turkey isnt Europe. They have no european culture and mentality. You have a different opinion, thats ok.

As for lake baikal. Lake baikal is impressive landscape but not impressive nature. Biological speaking lake baikal region has very few species. When you visit the lokobe forest on madagascar there are lemurs, hundreds of different orchids, geckos, snakes. Wherever you look, life is booming. Baikal is a huge lake and lots of trees but not that bio diversity.

As for the apathy, i think what she meant and what i saw is they just let evrything fall apart. Why do you allow houses to collapse like this?

They just throw trash infront the house, evrything falls apart. Its like they wait for someone to come and repair their house or remove the trash.

Also i dont expect anyone want discuss politic witha 14 year old kid. But being able to take a order in a restaurant or cafe would be good. Almost nobody spoke english. Thats definitly not the case in Europe. Here you get far when you speak english. I dont expect anyone to speak spanish in eastern europe. I speak 2 world languages, spanish and english and it felt odd when you get nowhere with that.

As for Russia being an enemy of Spain and Europe in general thats their choice not ours. They attacked an allied nation (Ukraine) and damaged our infrastructre like sea cables. Their bizarre leadership spew hateful propaganda nearly evry day, stuff that nobody can even take serious anymore. Its up to them to chose a path of peace.

That said and to say something positive, i liked that stuff that is like empanadas. I dont know what it was called in russian but it was tasty.

So peace, you have your opinion, i have mine.

 

[Hoover]

Beltrami, I really not a fan of Russia and his dictator Putin, but those houses I found in remote areas in Greece, Spain, France, too.
That is no valid example for your theorie.

 

[KipPotapych]

Ok, I said I was done, but I will take another crack.

Russia isnt Europe. We already cleared that. Same reason Turkey isnt Europe. They have no european culture and mentality. You have a different opinion, thats ok.

We did, indeed. As for Turkey, some 10% of its total population lives in Europe (ie the continent) vs three quarters or more in Russia.

Do you have the same mentality as an average dude from Bosnia? Or how about Serbs, that you have mentioned as obviously being different? Maybe neither of those are Europeans either? A dude from Poland or Hungary? I remember staying at some… I don’t know what they call it, camping perhaps? In Milan. Basically a bunch of trailers you can rent to sleep in. A lot of different tourists stayed there, including Russians. All (that I saw) were young people - young adults, if you will (so was I, in my early or mid 20s) - as that is the kind of place, lets you travel on the cheap side and a place to party. You know who was the worst, constantly complained about, broke a trailer (they occupied a few), and generally acted like a bunch of donkeys every single evening, sticking out like a thorn from everyone else? It was the Brits. Every single day that I stayed there. I then learned that it was actually widely known through out Europe. Everyone else was more or less the same, found common language, got drunk and partied together, etc. The Brits were overly aggressive, looking for a confrontation and fight. Mind you, I had a few drinks with them too, broke up a couple of fights to be, etc.

I already commented on different opinions.

As for lake baikal. Lake baikal is impressive landscape but not impressive nature. Biological speaking lake baikal region has very few species.

I know ignorance is a bliss, but… If you go to the UNESCO website and read about Baikal, the first thing you will find is that they call it the “Galapagos of Russia”. Here is a bit more info:

The flora and fauna of the lake are unique and very diverse. There is no other lake in which three of the four animal species are not found anywhere else. No other place is home to such a large number of living creatures that are extinct in all other places.

Formed 25 million years ago, it provides a refuge for a wide variety of plant and animal species. About 2000 species of birds nest here and also, a unique marine mammal, the Baikal seal that lives only here. In the mountainous part of Baikal Region the smallest deer in the world is found, musk deer.

The oxygen rich water allows a large number of living organisms to live here; there are over 2,600 species and subspecies of aquatic inhabitants, most of them endemics.

The water column of Baikal is inhabited by more than 58 fish species, such as omul, grayling, whitefish, taimen, baikal sturgeon, lenok and golomyanka, a unique fish consisting of 30% of fat.

Of these plants and animals, 75% are found only in the Lake Baikal region, which makes its conservation crucial.

You can read more here:

Lake Baikal Fauna and Flora – Lake Baikal

www.lakebaikal.org

Amazing to have visited such a place and not knowing where you have been.

When you visit the lokobe forest on madagascar there are lemurs, hundreds of different orchids, geckos, snakes. Wherever you look, life is booming. Baikal is a huge lake and lots of trees but not that bio diversity.

This is rather funny because see above.

As for the apathy, i think what she meant and what i saw is they just let evrything fall apart. Why do you allow houses to collapse like this?

They just throw trash infront the house, evrything falls apart. Its like they wait for someone to come and repair their house or remove the trash.

See what Hoover is telling you above and he is no fan of Russia, for obvious reasons. I had also provided you with the economic indicators in the other thread showing the same, but worse for Spain. You need to take your head out of the sand. It is also funny that you see that image to be a disaster, but thought Madagascar was alright, haha. Especially the trash part.

Hard to kind of skip that (or perhaps the opposite, very easy?) while looking for Lemurs. The weirdness of and denial in your posts is at the next level, to be honest.

Also i dont expect anyone want discuss politic witha 14 year old kid. But being able to take a order in a restaurant or cafe would be good. Almost nobody spoke english. Thats definitly not the case in Europe. Here you get far when you speak english. I dont expect anyone to speak spanish in eastern europe. I speak 2 world languages, spanish and english and it felt odd when you get nowhere with that.

Some years ago in Italy, off the beaten path, looking for “classic authenticity”, the only reason we were able to order a pizza was because my wife speaks Spanish and they can understand each other with the Italians. Most Italians even in Florence, Pisa, etc did not speak anything but Italian. Many more people spoke English in Switzerland, but it was still extremely easy to run into someone who speaks only German or another language (in other regions) and when you got out of the municipal centres, the easier it was to meet such people. In Austria, it seemed even more people spoke English, but I haven’t been much outside of the touristy places, so can’t comment much. Belgium is about the same as Switzerland. Netherlands felt more like Austria, if not better in terms English-speaking population. France was a mix, depending on where you are. Felt like everyone speaks English in Luxembourg, but it was a very short visit. And so on. But here is the thing:

Also, while Russia has Russian as being as the only federal official language, there are 25 other regional official languages in Russia. The EU has 24 in total, I believe. But yes, hardly anyone speaks English in Russia compared to an average European country and there are reasons for it.

And, I will add (again), if you travel in Quebec, Canada, as a Spanish and English speaker, you will 100% run into difficulties outside of the cities communicating with people, ordering in restaurants, inquiring in stores, etc. And, that is being that English and French share the Latin alphabet, a good chunk of vocabulary, etc. And English is one of two official languages in Canada, the other being French.

So, you are posting weird stuff. Like I said in one of my other posts, you claim to have travelled, but you have surely hardly visited.

spew hateful propaganda nearly evry day, stuff that nobody can even take serious anymore

This is rather rich coming from you, don’t you find? I mean read your own posts, mate.

That said and to say something positive, i liked that stuff that is like empanadas. I dont know what it was called in russian but it was tasty.

Pirozhki, perhaps.

Good luck on your endeavours!

 

[Beltrami2005]

Beltrami, I really not a fan of Russia and his dictator Putin, but those houses I found in remote areas in Greece, Spain, France, too.
That is no valid example for your theorie.

I think it is. Russia is a very poor country and if i had to chose to live there or to be dead...i honestly dont know what to do...I found it very very bad there, not matching the way i want to live in any sort or form. Im also big supporter to have it break up..

 

[Beltrami2005]

Ok, I said I was done, but I will take another crack.


We did, indeed. As for Turkey, some 10% of its total population lives in Europe (ie the continent) vs three quarters or more in Russia.

Do you have the same mentality as an average dude from Bosnia? Or how about Serbs, that you have mentioned as obviously being different? Maybe neither of those are Europeans either? A dude from Poland or Hungary? I remember staying at some… I don’t know what they call it, camping perhaps? In Milan. Basically a bunch of trailers you can rent to sleep in. A lot of different tourists stayed there, including Russians. All (that I saw) were young people - young adults, if you will (so was I, in my early or mid 20s) - as that is the kind of place, lets you travel on the cheap side and a place to party. You know who was the worst, constantly complained about, broke a trailer (they occupied a few), and generally acted like a bunch of donkeys every single evening, sticking out like a thorn from everyone else? It was the Brits. Every single day that I stayed there. I then learned that it was actually widely known through out Europe. Everyone else was more or less the same, found common language, got drunk and partied together, etc. The Brits were overly aggressive, looking for a confrontation and fight. Mind you, I had a few drinks with them too, broke up a couple of fights to be, etc.

I already commented on different opinions.


I know ignorance is a bliss, but… If you go to the UNESCO website and read about Baikal, the first thing you will find is that they call it the “Galapagos of Russia”. Here is a bit more info:

The flora and fauna of the lake are unique and very diverse. There is no other lake in which three of the four animal species are not found anywhere else. No other place is home to such a large number of living creatures that are extinct in all other places.

Formed 25 million years ago, it provides a refuge for a wide variety of plant and animal species. About 2000 species of birds nest here and also, a unique marine mammal, the Baikal seal that lives only here. In the mountainous part of Baikal Region the smallest deer in the world is found, musk deer.

The oxygen rich water allows a large number of living organisms to live here; there are over 2,600 species and subspecies of aquatic inhabitants, most of them endemics.

The water column of Baikal is inhabited by more than 58 fish species, such as omul, grayling, whitefish, taimen, baikal sturgeon, lenok and golomyanka, a unique fish consisting of 30% of fat.

Of these plants and animals, 75% are found only in the Lake Baikal region, which makes its conservation crucial.

You can read more here:

Lake Baikal Fauna and Flora – Lake Baikal

www.lakebaikal.org

Amazing to have visited such a place and not knowing where you have been.


This is rather funny because see above.


See what Hoover is telling you above and he is no fan of Russia, for obvious reasons. I had also provided you with the economic indicators in the other thread showing the same, but worse for Spain. You need to take your head out of the sand. It is also funny that you see that image to be a disaster, but thought Madagascar was alright, haha. Especially the trash part.

Hard to kind of skip that (or perhaps the opposite, very easy?) while looking for Lemurs. The weirdness of and denial in your posts is at the next level, to be honest.


Some years ago in Italy, off the beaten path, looking for “classic authenticity”, the only reason we were able to order a pizza was because my wife speaks Spanish and they can understand each other with the Italians. Most Italians even in Florence, Pisa, etc did not speak anything but Italian. Many more people spoke English in Switzerland, but it was still extremely easy to run into someone who speaks only German or another language (in other regions) and when you got out of the municipal centres, the easier it was to meet such people. In Austria, it seemed even more people spoke English, but I haven’t been much outside of the touristy places, so can’t comment much. Belgium is about the same as Switzerland. Netherlands felt more like Austria, if not better in terms English-speaking population. France was a mix, depending on where you are. Felt like everyone speaks English in Luxembourg, but it was a very short visit. And so on. But here is the thing:

Also, while Russia has Russian as being as the only federal official language, there are 25 other regional official languages in Russia. The EU has 24 in total, I believe. But yes, hardly anyone speaks English in Russia compared to an average European country and there are reasons for it.

And, I will add (again), if you travel in Quebec, Canada, as a Spanish and English speaker, you will 100% run into difficulties outside of the cities communicating with people, ordering in restaurants, inquiring in stores, etc. And, that is being that English and French share the Latin alphabet, a good chunk of vocabulary, etc. And English is one of two official languages in Canada, the other being French.

So, you are posting weird stuff. Like I said in one of my other posts, you claim to have travelled, but you have surely hardly visited.


This is rather rich coming from you, don’t you find? I mean read your own posts, mate.


Pirozhki, perhaps.

Good luck on your endeavours!

I guess you are russian or russian ancestry but thats ok. Its ok you stand for your heritage. Doesnt make me need to like it. I will always be anti russia and im happy that Europe cut off from it. I made my points you made yours. Our current european policies luckily stand for my pov. So no need to argue.

 

[KipPotapych]

Its ok you stand for your heritage.

World heritage, you mean, as Baikal is a UNESCO world heritage site. Laughing.

Insane stuff in the previous post though.

Also, to make a proper argument, one needs to have a clue, otherwise it is not an argument. But I digress and really am done now.

Good luck with the insanity!