True but its still only a 2000 tonne boat with a 6.3 diameter hull. Hardly a contender for SEA 1000 but as you say, the time. from concept to build is astounding.
RSN capabilities
- Thread starter SGMilitary
- Start date
Is quite astounding though some what not surprising. TKMS has a good history with building submarines and have grown them year on year from one variant to another quite successfully.
They are probably the best placed company in the world to be able to quickly grow or shrink a submarine to a particular customers needs.
You make that sound easy, its not. The 218 is further development from the 214 and 212, existing boats from 1,500 to 2,000 tonnes. Doubling that size is a greater challenge as we are all far too aware from the Collins experience.
However your point that they have the design experience is taken.
The Japanese design and build experience for a 4,000 tonne boat is extant.
Agree, was just impressed with the time it has taken, mind you it still has to sink and get back up yet
but with the amount of time we have had Sea 1000 out there in public and its requirements, I would be very interested to see what TKMS already has done up and presented to the Government ?I would guess, while still obviously only on paper, that the design would be pretty far along with a lot of effort on their part to de-risk the proposal.
But as you mentioned it is not as simple as up sizing an existing design, any chage in size basically requires a full re-design, even if it is based off an existing in water boat, and definitely a big challenge to double the tonnage.
I believe the Soryu's are around the 9.1 diameter, that is a total re-work just there to go from 6.3.
Anyway I digress from RSN to RAN
I will be interesting to see these boats come into RSN service, just the 2 seems an odd number though ? would have thought the RSN would have a requirement for more, but guessing there is still a fair bit of life left in the Challenger's and Archer's.
Cheers
At the last IMDEX, TKMS displayed a model of the Type 218SG that has the following dimensions:
More importantly, changing the posture of 171 squadron to move our submarines to an area of potential conflict, to monitor activities, can be done without provocation.
(i) 70 m in length;
(ii) 6.3 m in beam, and
(iii) displace approximately 2,000 tonnes.
(ii) 6.3 m in beam, and
(iii) displace approximately 2,000 tonnes.
There is life left in the two Archer class submarines (acquired second hand in 2005 and relaunched in 2009/2010) but the Challenger class (acquired second hand in 1995 to 1997) are very shagged. The Singapore Navy's 171 squadron currently operates 4 submarines. In the near future, they will operate two Type 218SGs and two Archer Class submarines.
Singapore tends to buy it's weapon systems in increments. Two Type 218SGs is a start; and there will be spiral developments for the next batch to be procured.
More importantly, changing the posture of 171 squadron to move our submarines to an area of potential conflict, to monitor activities, can be done without provocation.
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I imagine buying two gives them more option's, It's large enough order to make it viable for there need's but not so large that they risk being stuck with a dud submarine should issues arise. Best bet they will order there submarines in batches of 2 incorporating new tech as it becomes viable.Agree, was just impressed with the time it has taken, mind you it still has to sink and get back up yet
I would guess, while still obviously only on paper, that the design would be pretty far along with a lot of effort on their part to de-risk the proposal.
But as you mentioned it is not as simple as up sizing an existing design, any chage in size basically requires a full re-design, even if it is based off an existing in water boat, and definitely a big challenge to double the tonnage.
I believe the Soryu's are around the 9.1 diameter, that is a total re-work just there to go from 6.3.
Anyway I digress from RSN to RAN
I will be interesting to see these boats come into RSN service, just the 2 seems an odd number though ? would have thought the RSN would have a requirement for more, but guessing there is still a fair bit of life left in the Challenger's and Archer's.
Cheers
As to the life left in the remaining 2 Challengers and the Archer class, Well I wouldn't want to speculate considering they are already in service longer then the norm. By the time they receive there first 218 there currently youngest submarine will already be over 30 years old.
Does anyone know how much more life there is the Victory-class corvettes? I can't find any information on how long they were extended back in 2009. Now that the (younger) Fearless-class is being slowly replaced by the Independence-class, I'm wondering when the older corvettes will be getting a replacement.
Thanks
Thanks
On 5 May 2017, the Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN) commissions it's first littoral mission vessel (LMV), RSS Independence; and also celebrate it's Golden Jubilee. The 1,250-tonne vessel is the first of eight LMVs that are being acquired to progressively replace the RSN's fleet of 11 ageing Fearless-class patrol boats, which have been in service since the mid-1990s. The LMV will operate with the RSN's 182 Squadron as an operational component of the Singapore Armed Forces' Maritime Security Task Force (MSTF), which was established to deal swiftly with potential threats within Singapore's territorial waters and sea lines of communication.
This is the third vessel in Singapore Navy service to bear the proud name in it's 50 year history. Speaking at the commissioning ceremony, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong highlighted the significance and historic value of the name of RSS Independence. As PM Lee said:
"It is a significant and historic name. Significant, because protecting Singapore's independence has always been a core mission of the RSN. Historic, because the name "Independence" carries the legacy and spirit of the RSN pioneers starting from the first RSS Independence, the patrol craft, which played a key role during the Laju ferry hijacking in 1974.
I am very glad that the pioneers of the RSN, and members of the crews of the first and second RSS Independence ships are here today, to witness the commissioning of LMV RSS Independence, including Major (Ret) Alan Aw, the first Commanding Officer (CO) of Patrol Craft Independence, and Captain (Ret) Philip Tay, who was CO during the Laju hijacking, as well as members of the Singapore Division of the Malayan Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve and the Singapore Women Auxiliary Naval Service.
Some saw active service in Tawau in East Malaysia during Konfrontasi. Several were present at Telok Ayer Basin on the 5 May 1967, 50 years ago, when the Navy Ensign was hoisted for the first time. Your presence honours the new RSS Independence and its crew, and reminds us what the Navy is about: not just capable ships and up-to-date technology, but fighting spirit and dedication to the nation.
To the CO, Lieutenant Colonel Tay Choong Hern and the crew of the LMV RSS Independence, and to the men and women of the RSN, you inherit a proud history, and are entrusted with a vital mission. It is now your duty to sail the ships of the next generation Navy, and keep Singapore safe and secure, in peacetime as in war. "
Note on the LMV class:
RSS Independence has a length of 80 m, a beam of 12 m, and a draught of 3 m. The vessel has top speeds in excess of 27 kt, a standard range of 3,500 n miles at 15 kt, and an endurance of 14 days given a baseline crew of 23 including five officers.
- Thales NS100 3D Surveillance Radar
- Kelvin Hughes Sharpeye Navigation Radar
- STELOP 360 degree All-Round Surveillance System
- STELOP Compass D Electo-Optic Director
- MBDA MICA Anti-Air / Anti-Missile Missile System
- Oto Melara 76mm Gun
- Rafael 25mm Typhoon Gun
- Oto Melara 12.7mm Hitrole Gun
- Remote Control Long Range Acoustic Device and Xenon Light
- Water Cannon System
Note on the MSTF, which comprises of three groups:
a) The Comprehensive Maritime Awareness (CMA) Group builds and maintains a comprehensive maritime situation picture through its information-sharing networks. It works closely with national agencies, international partners and the shipping community (such as ship owners, ships charterers, agents and port operators) to share maritime information. The collated information helps in deciding the allocation of MSTF assets in day-to-day maritime operations and operational responses when required.
b) The Operations Group, comprising operations planners from the Army, Navy and Air Force, undertakes an integrated approach towards planning and execution of all maritime security operations. It conducts daily patrols, boarding and escort operations in the Singapore Strait and SLOC, to ensure maritime security and the protection of key installations and potential targets.
c) The Inter-Agency Coordination Group comprises representatives from the Police Coast Guard (PCG), the Maritime and Port Authority of Singapore (MPA), the Immigration & Checkpoints Authority (ICA), and the Singapore Customs (Customs). This group ensures close coordination in the execution of maritime security operations at the national level.
Upcoming Events Next Week
=======================
Multinational Group Sails - From 7 to 13 May 2017, in the lead-up to the International Maritime Review (IMR), group sails from the Malacca Strait and from the South China Sea, led by the RSN's Formidable-class frigates, will be conducted to bring the IMR participating warships to Singapore. As part of the group sails, three groups of warships from the South China Sea, led by RSS Stalwart, RSS Supreme and RSS Intrepid, will participate in the Western Pacific Naval Symposium Multilateral Sea Exercise (WMSX), where the RSN will lead in the exercising of the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES), aimed at enhancing interoperability and promoting trust amongst international navies.
International Maritime Review (IMR) - The Singapore Navy will host Singapore's first-ever IMR on 15 May 2017, with President Tony Tan Keng Yam as the Reviewing Officer. The IMR will comprise an IMR parade, a land review of warships in harbour and a sea review of warships at the anchorage. More than 4000 guests and participants, over 30 Chiefs of Navy and Directors-General of Coast Guard, and about 30 warships from 20 countries will be participating in the event.
This is the third vessel in Singapore Navy service to bear the proud name in it's 50 year history. Speaking at the commissioning ceremony, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong highlighted the significance and historic value of the name of RSS Independence. As PM Lee said:
"It is a significant and historic name. Significant, because protecting Singapore's independence has always been a core mission of the RSN. Historic, because the name "Independence" carries the legacy and spirit of the RSN pioneers starting from the first RSS Independence, the patrol craft, which played a key role during the Laju ferry hijacking in 1974.
I am very glad that the pioneers of the RSN, and members of the crews of the first and second RSS Independence ships are here today, to witness the commissioning of LMV RSS Independence, including Major (Ret) Alan Aw, the first Commanding Officer (CO) of Patrol Craft Independence, and Captain (Ret) Philip Tay, who was CO during the Laju hijacking, as well as members of the Singapore Division of the Malayan Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve and the Singapore Women Auxiliary Naval Service.
Some saw active service in Tawau in East Malaysia during Konfrontasi. Several were present at Telok Ayer Basin on the 5 May 1967, 50 years ago, when the Navy Ensign was hoisted for the first time. Your presence honours the new RSS Independence and its crew, and reminds us what the Navy is about: not just capable ships and up-to-date technology, but fighting spirit and dedication to the nation.
To the CO, Lieutenant Colonel Tay Choong Hern and the crew of the LMV RSS Independence, and to the men and women of the RSN, you inherit a proud history, and are entrusted with a vital mission. It is now your duty to sail the ships of the next generation Navy, and keep Singapore safe and secure, in peacetime as in war. "
Note on the LMV class:
RSS Independence has a length of 80 m, a beam of 12 m, and a draught of 3 m. The vessel has top speeds in excess of 27 kt, a standard range of 3,500 n miles at 15 kt, and an endurance of 14 days given a baseline crew of 23 including five officers.
- Thales NS100 3D Surveillance Radar
- Kelvin Hughes Sharpeye Navigation Radar
- STELOP 360 degree All-Round Surveillance System
- STELOP Compass D Electo-Optic Director
- MBDA MICA Anti-Air / Anti-Missile Missile System
- Oto Melara 76mm Gun
- Rafael 25mm Typhoon Gun
- Oto Melara 12.7mm Hitrole Gun
- Remote Control Long Range Acoustic Device and Xenon Light
- Water Cannon System
Note on the MSTF, which comprises of three groups:
a) The Comprehensive Maritime Awareness (CMA) Group builds and maintains a comprehensive maritime situation picture through its information-sharing networks. It works closely with national agencies, international partners and the shipping community (such as ship owners, ships charterers, agents and port operators) to share maritime information. The collated information helps in deciding the allocation of MSTF assets in day-to-day maritime operations and operational responses when required.
b) The Operations Group, comprising operations planners from the Army, Navy and Air Force, undertakes an integrated approach towards planning and execution of all maritime security operations. It conducts daily patrols, boarding and escort operations in the Singapore Strait and SLOC, to ensure maritime security and the protection of key installations and potential targets.
c) The Inter-Agency Coordination Group comprises representatives from the Police Coast Guard (PCG), the Maritime and Port Authority of Singapore (MPA), the Immigration & Checkpoints Authority (ICA), and the Singapore Customs (Customs). This group ensures close coordination in the execution of maritime security operations at the national level.
Upcoming Events Next Week
=======================
Multinational Group Sails - From 7 to 13 May 2017, in the lead-up to the International Maritime Review (IMR), group sails from the Malacca Strait and from the South China Sea, led by the RSN's Formidable-class frigates, will be conducted to bring the IMR participating warships to Singapore. As part of the group sails, three groups of warships from the South China Sea, led by RSS Stalwart, RSS Supreme and RSS Intrepid, will participate in the Western Pacific Naval Symposium Multilateral Sea Exercise (WMSX), where the RSN will lead in the exercising of the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES), aimed at enhancing interoperability and promoting trust amongst international navies.
International Maritime Review (IMR) - The Singapore Navy will host Singapore's first-ever IMR on 15 May 2017, with President Tony Tan Keng Yam as the Reviewing Officer. The IMR will comprise an IMR parade, a land review of warships in harbour and a sea review of warships at the anchorage. More than 4000 guests and participants, over 30 Chiefs of Navy and Directors-General of Coast Guard, and about 30 warships from 20 countries will be participating in the event.
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Joe Black
Active Member
Singapore Navy to add 2 more submarines to fleet
Singapore Navy to add 2 more submarines to fleet
SINGAPORE: Two more Type-218SG submarines from Germany's ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems will be added to the Republic of Singapore Navy’s (RSN) fleet from 2024.
According to a statement from the Ministry of Defence (MINDEF), the new submarines boast design innovations to optimise training, operation and maintenance costs. They will also be equipped with "significantly improved capabilities" like modern combat systems and Air Independent Propulsion systems.
The ministry's contract with the shipbuilders includes a logistics package and a crew training arrangement in Germany.
Calling the move “another important step in the RSN’s modernisation effort”, Dr Ng said that the RSN needed to keep pace with the growth of other navies in Asia – spurred by the need to protect trade and other maritime interests.
“ASEAN countries, Australia, China and India have all increased the strength of their navies, with naval budgets in the Asia Pacific region expected to increase by 60 per cent through 2020,” he said. The minister also highlighted a report by naval defence market analysts AMI International, which estimated that approximately 800 more warships and submarines will operate in the Asia Pacific region by 2030.
“To be effective, the RSN needs to keep pace with this growth of navies in Asia. At steady state, the four Type-218SGs in service will complement each other in maintenance, logistics and operations, and have better capabilities to protect our sea lines of communication,” he said.
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Why order more when the first boat is yet to hit the water. Perhaps TKMS is really in need of more work and is giving Singapore a great deal.
Singapore Navy to add 2 more submarines to fleet
SINGAPORE: Two more Type-218SG submarines from Germany's ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems will be added to the Republic of Singapore Navy’s (RSN) fleet from 2024.
According to a statement from the Ministry of Defence (MINDEF), the new submarines boast design innovations to optimise training, operation and maintenance costs. They will also be equipped with "significantly improved capabilities" like modern combat systems and Air Independent Propulsion systems.
The ministry's contract with the shipbuilders includes a logistics package and a crew training arrangement in Germany.
Calling the move “another important step in the RSN’s modernisation effort”, Dr Ng said that the RSN needed to keep pace with the growth of other navies in Asia – spurred by the need to protect trade and other maritime interests.
“ASEAN countries, Australia, China and India have all increased the strength of their navies, with naval budgets in the Asia Pacific region expected to increase by 60 per cent through 2020,” he said. The minister also highlighted a report by naval defence market analysts AMI International, which estimated that approximately 800 more warships and submarines will operate in the Asia Pacific region by 2030.
“To be effective, the RSN needs to keep pace with this growth of navies in Asia. At steady state, the four Type-218SGs in service will complement each other in maintenance, logistics and operations, and have better capabilities to protect our sea lines of communication,” he said.
------
Why order more when the first boat is yet to hit the water. Perhaps TKMS is really in need of more work and is giving Singapore a great deal.
Couple possibilities.
1. They are looking to expand the size of there submarine force
2. They have decided to cough up the extra funds to get an all new fleet sooner and retire the Archer class which are already 29 and 30 years old for each submarine.
3. Long term cost savings. Ordering these 2 extra 218's early enough for them to flow on seamlesly to the build of the current 2 will allow for savings in the build while also cheaper maintenance compared to trying to keep 30 year old submarines working.
^^Thanks to both of you in keeping the thread going (with very little posts in this thread since 2015).
Let me try and explain Singapore's need for more capable submarines.
By way of background, I would like to take note of three points to frame the geo-political context and the evolving security picture before discussing Singapore's new submarine acquisition:
One, the greatest threat to the freedom of commercial navigation arises out of the ungoverned spaces in tri-border area of the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia; and the slim possibility of intra-ASEAN hostilities arising from conflicting sea border claims. We should note that in relation to the recurring kidnapping incidents since 2000, Indonesia does not share a maritime border with Philippines in the Sulu Sea but Malaysia does. Indonesia shares a maritime border with Malaysia in Sulawesi Sea. However, this may be complicated by outstanding territorial and other disputes between (a) Indonesia and Malaysia, and (b) the Philippines and Malaysia; with Indonesia (operating 2 old submarines, with 3 improved Chang Bogo class submarines on order) and Malaysia (operating 2 Scorpène-class submarines) as submarine operators. To add to the temperature, fellow ASEAN member and South China Sea claimant Viet Nam, recently took delivery of 6 Improved Kilo or Project 636 submarines; with Thailand signing a US$393 million agreement in May 2017 with Beijing for 3 Yuan-class submarines.
Two, for more than a decade, Asian countries have been on a submarine spending spree. With the growth of China's submarine fleet, Japan has been forced to double its very capable submarine fleet from its current 14. Some countries are updating obsolete vessels while others are purchasing submarines for the first time. This trend has largely been driven by growing concerns nations have over maintaining a deterrent against an increasingly assertive China broadly, but also rivalries with neighbors and a desire to maintain technological parity in submarine enabled capabilities with rivals. To illuminate the point, let us discuss threat perception versus a long term structural change to regional submarine enabled capabilities. For example, Viet Nam's threat perception (where its submarine program is designed as an asymmetric counter to the Chinese naval threat in the South China Sea). To a lesser extent, Malaysia’s submarines serve the same function. However, for the majority of the ASEAN navies like Indonesia, Singapore and Thailand, in acquiring new and more capable submarines, the primary motivation is structural (rather than threat perception-based). In the case of Singapore, it is a sense of geopolitical uncertainty that drives us to acquire submarines as a force multiplier to bolster our omni-directional deterrence and also to grow navy's submarine enabled capabilities. In particular, I note that Malaysia's two submarines are armed with anti-ship missiles. Further, in terms of submarine enabled capabilities mentioned above, there is a growing appetite in submarine-launched land-attack cruise missiles – this pattern being most prevalent in South and Northeast Asian navies and, to a much lesser extent, for ASEAN navies.
Three, let me elaborate on the growing ASEAN unease with regard to China, more specifically: (a) in the 2014 Haiyang Shiyou 981 standoff with Viet Nam, when China sent a oil rig to drill in disputed waters; and (b) in 2012 when China took control of Scarborough Shoal after a standoff with the Philippine Navy. The Scarborough Shoal standoff began in April 2012 when the Philippine Navy tried unsucessfuly to arrest Chinese fishermen who were operating in the shoal’s lagoon. After receiving a distress call, two China Marine Surveillance (CMS) vessels arrived on the scene, to prevent the arrest of the Chinese fishermen. After the fishing boats left the shoal, however, government ships from both sides remained. In early June, the Philippines announced that an agreement had been reached with China for a mutual withdrawal of ships. Although China never publicly confirmed the existence of such an agreement, ships from both sides left in mid June as a typhoon approached the area. Later, however, Chinese ships returned and maintained a permanent presence in the waters around the shoal since then. China gained effective control of the shoal and the surrounding waters, thereby altering the status quo in this dispute in its favor. Further, Woody Island, occupied by China since 1956, has undergone a major expansion of its runway and airport facilities, including a new concrete runway measuring 2,920 meters in length. Apart from the air defense systems that were recently uncovered, there is also significant Chinese military activity on other parts of Woody Island. A key feature of the base is its runway, which gives China the ability to send and receive combat aircraft. In November 2015, J-11 fighter jets were reportedly deployed to the base. China’s deployment of missiles and the rotation of J-11 fighters in Woody is a triggering factor that intensifies this security dilemma. Eighty kilometers southwest of Woody, on Duncan Island (seized by China from Viet Nam in 1974) satellite images show landfill that has increased the size of the island by approximately 50 percent since April 2014. While China, does not have a long tradition of submarine operations at a high level of competence, it is improving rapidly. Given that China's key objective would be finding and killing US aircraft carriers in the event of a dispute over Taiwan, it needs to improve the broad area targeting and reach of its force. Beijing also has its ballistic missile submarines as a strategic nuclear deterrent.
Returning to our discussion on the Type 218SG submarines and as stated in the press release and news reports, Singapore signed a contract with ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems GmbH (TKMS) to acquire two additional Type 218SG submarines with a crew size of 28. The contract includes a logistics package and a crew training arrangement in Germany. The submarines will also have air-independent propulsion in addition to the regular diesel-electric propulsion system, with the onboard combat system tailored to Singapore’s requirements being developed by Germany’s Atlas Elektronik in conjunction with Singapore’s ST Electronics.
Thies Stüber, the project manager of the Type 218SG program at TKMS, told Defense News that the decision was a big sign of trust Singapore has in the Type 218SG design, calling it the “result of the excellent cooperation between TKMS, DSTA (Singapore’s Defence Science and Technology Agency) and the Republic of Singapore Navy."
The first two Type 218SG submarines, which were acquired in 2013, have commenced construction following their steel-cutting in 2014. They are projected for delivery in 2021 and 2022. Together with the two additional Type 218SG submarines, they are part of the RSN's submarine force renewal programme to meet operational requirements. With newer submarines with the first of class to be delivered in 2021, the number of sea days on patrol will go up, when all four are delivered (around the 2024 or 2025 time frame). As these four new Type 218SGs are more capable and having new MTU engines. I would assume the Type 218SGs to be either using the MTU Series 396SE or the 4000 submarine engines (the latter of which has an improved power range of 1115 to 1500kw), they will be able to stay on station longer and have a marginally improved indiscretion ratio (as they are equipped with the HDW Fuel Cell AIP System) than the Swedish submarines, which have served us well. Very grateful to the Swedish Navy and their help to develop our undersea capabilities (on how our submarines should fit in our littoral strategy). With this new fuel cell, there is no exhaust gas production at all (when compared against the Archer Class' AIP system), the HDW fuel cell system can be performed in a closed boat, irrespective of diving pressure, which enables long duration deeper diving and bottom sitting with a lower signature.
Jane's also reports that the Type 218SG design combines the "best features" of the Type 212A-class and the Type 214-class platforms. For example, the Type 218SG features an X-rudder stern configuration similar to the Type 212A, which offers enhanced manoeuvrability in confined littoral waters, as opposed to the Type 214's cruciform rudder arrangement. "The Type 218SG will also use the same air independent propulsion [AIP] system found in the Type 214 submarine," a company source earlier told Jane's.
Let me try and explain Singapore's need for more capable submarines.
By way of background, I would like to take note of three points to frame the geo-political context and the evolving security picture before discussing Singapore's new submarine acquisition:
One, the greatest threat to the freedom of commercial navigation arises out of the ungoverned spaces in tri-border area of the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia; and the slim possibility of intra-ASEAN hostilities arising from conflicting sea border claims. We should note that in relation to the recurring kidnapping incidents since 2000, Indonesia does not share a maritime border with Philippines in the Sulu Sea but Malaysia does. Indonesia shares a maritime border with Malaysia in Sulawesi Sea. However, this may be complicated by outstanding territorial and other disputes between (a) Indonesia and Malaysia, and (b) the Philippines and Malaysia; with Indonesia (operating 2 old submarines, with 3 improved Chang Bogo class submarines on order) and Malaysia (operating 2 Scorpène-class submarines) as submarine operators. To add to the temperature, fellow ASEAN member and South China Sea claimant Viet Nam, recently took delivery of 6 Improved Kilo or Project 636 submarines; with Thailand signing a US$393 million agreement in May 2017 with Beijing for 3 Yuan-class submarines.
Two, for more than a decade, Asian countries have been on a submarine spending spree. With the growth of China's submarine fleet, Japan has been forced to double its very capable submarine fleet from its current 14. Some countries are updating obsolete vessels while others are purchasing submarines for the first time. This trend has largely been driven by growing concerns nations have over maintaining a deterrent against an increasingly assertive China broadly, but also rivalries with neighbors and a desire to maintain technological parity in submarine enabled capabilities with rivals. To illuminate the point, let us discuss threat perception versus a long term structural change to regional submarine enabled capabilities. For example, Viet Nam's threat perception (where its submarine program is designed as an asymmetric counter to the Chinese naval threat in the South China Sea). To a lesser extent, Malaysia’s submarines serve the same function. However, for the majority of the ASEAN navies like Indonesia, Singapore and Thailand, in acquiring new and more capable submarines, the primary motivation is structural (rather than threat perception-based). In the case of Singapore, it is a sense of geopolitical uncertainty that drives us to acquire submarines as a force multiplier to bolster our omni-directional deterrence and also to grow navy's submarine enabled capabilities. In particular, I note that Malaysia's two submarines are armed with anti-ship missiles. Further, in terms of submarine enabled capabilities mentioned above, there is a growing appetite in submarine-launched land-attack cruise missiles – this pattern being most prevalent in South and Northeast Asian navies and, to a much lesser extent, for ASEAN navies.
Three, let me elaborate on the growing ASEAN unease with regard to China, more specifically: (a) in the 2014 Haiyang Shiyou 981 standoff with Viet Nam, when China sent a oil rig to drill in disputed waters; and (b) in 2012 when China took control of Scarborough Shoal after a standoff with the Philippine Navy. The Scarborough Shoal standoff began in April 2012 when the Philippine Navy tried unsucessfuly to arrest Chinese fishermen who were operating in the shoal’s lagoon. After receiving a distress call, two China Marine Surveillance (CMS) vessels arrived on the scene, to prevent the arrest of the Chinese fishermen. After the fishing boats left the shoal, however, government ships from both sides remained. In early June, the Philippines announced that an agreement had been reached with China for a mutual withdrawal of ships. Although China never publicly confirmed the existence of such an agreement, ships from both sides left in mid June as a typhoon approached the area. Later, however, Chinese ships returned and maintained a permanent presence in the waters around the shoal since then. China gained effective control of the shoal and the surrounding waters, thereby altering the status quo in this dispute in its favor. Further, Woody Island, occupied by China since 1956, has undergone a major expansion of its runway and airport facilities, including a new concrete runway measuring 2,920 meters in length. Apart from the air defense systems that were recently uncovered, there is also significant Chinese military activity on other parts of Woody Island. A key feature of the base is its runway, which gives China the ability to send and receive combat aircraft. In November 2015, J-11 fighter jets were reportedly deployed to the base. China’s deployment of missiles and the rotation of J-11 fighters in Woody is a triggering factor that intensifies this security dilemma. Eighty kilometers southwest of Woody, on Duncan Island (seized by China from Viet Nam in 1974) satellite images show landfill that has increased the size of the island by approximately 50 percent since April 2014. While China, does not have a long tradition of submarine operations at a high level of competence, it is improving rapidly. Given that China's key objective would be finding and killing US aircraft carriers in the event of a dispute over Taiwan, it needs to improve the broad area targeting and reach of its force. Beijing also has its ballistic missile submarines as a strategic nuclear deterrent.
Returning to our discussion on the Type 218SG submarines and as stated in the press release and news reports, Singapore signed a contract with ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems GmbH (TKMS) to acquire two additional Type 218SG submarines with a crew size of 28. The contract includes a logistics package and a crew training arrangement in Germany. The submarines will also have air-independent propulsion in addition to the regular diesel-electric propulsion system, with the onboard combat system tailored to Singapore’s requirements being developed by Germany’s Atlas Elektronik in conjunction with Singapore’s ST Electronics.
Thies Stüber, the project manager of the Type 218SG program at TKMS, told Defense News that the decision was a big sign of trust Singapore has in the Type 218SG design, calling it the “result of the excellent cooperation between TKMS, DSTA (Singapore’s Defence Science and Technology Agency) and the Republic of Singapore Navy."
+1, a follow on build on a hot production line makes sense from seller (TKMS), buyer (Mindef's agent DSTA) and operator (RSN) perspectives. Good deal for both the Germans and the Singaporeans.
The first two Type 218SG submarines, which were acquired in 2013, have commenced construction following their steel-cutting in 2014. They are projected for delivery in 2021 and 2022. Together with the two additional Type 218SG submarines, they are part of the RSN's submarine force renewal programme to meet operational requirements. With newer submarines with the first of class to be delivered in 2021, the number of sea days on patrol will go up, when all four are delivered (around the 2024 or 2025 time frame). As these four new Type 218SGs are more capable and having new MTU engines. I would assume the Type 218SGs to be either using the MTU Series 396SE or the 4000 submarine engines (the latter of which has an improved power range of 1115 to 1500kw), they will be able to stay on station longer and have a marginally improved indiscretion ratio (as they are equipped with the HDW Fuel Cell AIP System) than the Swedish submarines, which have served us well. Very grateful to the Swedish Navy and their help to develop our undersea capabilities (on how our submarines should fit in our littoral strategy). With this new fuel cell, there is no exhaust gas production at all (when compared against the Archer Class' AIP system), the HDW fuel cell system can be performed in a closed boat, irrespective of diving pressure, which enables long duration deeper diving and bottom sitting with a lower signature.
Jane's also reports that the Type 218SG design combines the "best features" of the Type 212A-class and the Type 214-class platforms. For example, the Type 218SG features an X-rudder stern configuration similar to the Type 212A, which offers enhanced manoeuvrability in confined littoral waters, as opposed to the Type 214's cruciform rudder arrangement. "The Type 218SG will also use the same air independent propulsion [AIP] system found in the Type 214 submarine," a company source earlier told Jane's.
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Been having a few Singapore related things pop up in my surfing of late
Singapore's first Littoral Mission Vessel, RSS Independence reached FOC earlier in the month, great milestone for ST Marine, interesting little vessel
Singapore's first Littoral Mission Vessel goes fully operational | Jane's 360
Also for ST Electronics who have showed of their wares at IMDEX 2017, with Jane's reporting that they have finished their development of the Mercury AUV. Things in this area are moving at a rapid rate world wide, very interesting where this will take us.
IMDEX 2017: ST Electronics completes development of Mercury AUV | Jane's 360
And lastly, not specifically RSN related, but also shown at IMDEX Singapore, SAAB has unveiled a modified A26 with 3 cylinders, each containig 6 vertical launch cells
Saab A26 submarine gets vertical launched Tomahawks
Cheers
Singapore's first Littoral Mission Vessel, RSS Independence reached FOC earlier in the month, great milestone for ST Marine, interesting little vessel
Singapore's first Littoral Mission Vessel goes fully operational | Jane's 360
Also for ST Electronics who have showed of their wares at IMDEX 2017, with Jane's reporting that they have finished their development of the Mercury AUV. Things in this area are moving at a rapid rate world wide, very interesting where this will take us.
IMDEX 2017: ST Electronics completes development of Mercury AUV | Jane's 360
And lastly, not specifically RSN related, but also shown at IMDEX Singapore, SAAB has unveiled a modified A26 with 3 cylinders, each containig 6 vertical launch cells
Saab A26 submarine gets vertical launched Tomahawks
Cheers
Ananda
The Bunker Group
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/imps-news/imdex-asia-st-marine-lifts-veil-new-platforms/
According to this article, ST already acknowledge that there's potential customer for the design. In my view this indicated the design more or less close to final ones.
I suspect the potential customers is Singapore Navy it self, but question whether this LHA will teplace all 4 endurance class LPD or as additional..
OPSSG,do you have more info that can be share on this ?
According to this article, ST already acknowledge that there's potential customer for the design. In my view this indicated the design more or less close to final ones.
I suspect the potential customers is Singapore Navy it self, but question whether this LHA will teplace all 4 endurance class LPD or as additional..
OPSSG,do you have more info that can be share on this ?
Sorry, not for detailed sharing in a public forum and more importantly lacking the time to write a proper post with the proper context, as comments on a preliminary design can be easily misunderstood.
IIRC the Minister did announce that the JMMS will replace an existing capability; and I can't speculate at this time.
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t68
Well-Known Member
This might give you a clue,
ST Marine teaming with ADSB to Propose Endurance-class LHD to UAE Navy
ST Marine also pitched the design to the UAE at NavDex 17,I'm also hope NZ look at the design as an expansion JATF
Agreed, it is quite interesting to see the evolution and compromises made (e.g. with regard to speed). With 5 helicopter landing spots on the full-length 4,200m² flight deck, plus a below-deck hangar deck can accommodate ten medium-sized helicopters, the Endurance 170 (link to Shepherd news article again) has a full load displacement of 19,000ton, is 170m in length and 30.8m in width. Its ship crew numbers 140 plus 150 for the air crew. It can also carry up to 400 troops. Maximum speed is listed as 20kt, its range as 7,000nm and an endurance of 30 days. The well deck can accommodate four landing craft plus up to 17 tanks on the vehicle deck. Another deck can fit 16 30ton armoured vehicles. A 1,000m² medical facility, with three operating theatres, 10 intensive care unit beds and 17 beds in the hospital wards, is integral to the design.
Not sure how preliminary this 170 design is, or if the longer length is intended to address 160 limitations for a specific sales prospect or to provide optionality. IMO the design may still change and evolve as they mature the concept.
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A fair bit more capable from what I have been able to tell, B capable from my understanding. Very interesting indeed
Cheers
With the announcement of the two additional Type 218SGs, for a squadron of 4, the pending JMMS decision and the commissioning of RSS Independence (as the first of eight in the class), the Singapore Navy's recent evolution is certainly interesting. But important to keep in mind the limitations of this small but capable navy as it evolves its littoral strategy; and not over estimate its nascent capabilities as it embarks on this exciting growth path.
I will try to track the development of the SAF's HADR capabilities and MINDEF has released pictures of container medical modules deployed on the Endurance Class 140 flight deck that would nicely fit in the belly of the JMMS for onward deployment to disaster relief areas (in addition to medical facilities on this Endurance 170 design).
I have seen some discussions elsewhere where some locals are a little too enthusiastic in making claims without understanding the context. However, it is understandable, as I am guilty of that too. In this regard, I am specifically thinking about task group speed operating limitations with the JMMS (and the potential need for more S-70B Seahawks beyond the current 8) and the lack of a dedicated air search radar on the Formidable Class.
From a people development perspective, the JMMS is exciting news as it will give our air force pilots and air controllers sea-legs and a career path forward in working on a navy ship in a joint force context for the SAF.
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t68
Well-Known Member
No doubt ST are evolving and tweaking the design but both the 160-and 170 from what I can find online are pretty much the same, I imagine the 170 will be using the extra size to increase bunkerage magazine and slightly larger hanger space. That Seasheaperd article is the only peice of infomation I can find on the variant which is pretty much say identical 160 in capabilty terms.
http://www.stengg.com/media/30764/endurance-class-landing-platform-dock.pdf
If someone can point me into a better site showing the difference between the two that would be appreciated.