Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[Warhawk]

I will agree that going with an all OPV naval patrol force would be a compromise, but I would disagree that it would be a solution of any sort.

After all, if the RNZN were to find itself without any naval combat forces, NZ would be incapable of escorting vessels and would be forced to rely upon friends/allies.

The entirety of the NZDF's ASuW and ASW capabilities would rest upon the P-8 Poseidons and possibly any armed naval helicopters, if there were to get acquired. Also, if the RNZN is left without surface combatants, the utility and value of naval helicopters like the MH-60R 'Romeo' Seahawk or NFH90 is significantly if not entirely diminished, which in turn would mean it would make little sense spending so much coin on a platform where 80% of the capabilities cannot be utilized.

From my POV, GBAD and land-based AShM would be an expensive way to waste significant coin, coin that the NZDF has never had enough of over the last 30+ years. Such capabilities would really only possibly become useful if NZ were to get directly threatened or attacked following an outbreak of hostilities. Even if NZ were to suddenly become a target though, these land-based systems would also need to be positioned somewhere within NZ where both the sensors could detect and track potential targets, and the launched missiles could then hit those targets. A unit based in Auckland would be of little use in defending Wellington, never mind anywhere on South Island. By the same token, if there was a unit based in/near Christchurch, then Auckland would not be covered, never mind ports and harbours further north like Whangaroa or Whangarei.

Also, any land-based units would be worth SFA in keeping the SLOC to NZ open and/or protecting essential merchant marine shipping traffic like tankers. All a hostile force would need to do would be to intercept or interdict NZ-bound tankers say 300 n miles away from NZ ports and NZ would be effectively unable to do anything about it. All the while Kiwi petroleum supplies would begin to dwindle. If enough such tankers get lost along the SLOC leading to NZ, then NZ could effectively run out of power and have little ability to do anything.

Did read anything above land based Sam unit in update have I missed this .

 

[swerve]

I do not really see this as being particularly viable. If NZ were to go for OPV's, or at least more/new OPV's to replace the existing OPV's at some point, there are likely much better options in terms of affordability. If memory serves, the current Protector-class OPV's cost about NZD$110 mil. around 2004, but going by the terms of a recent Indonesian contract to purchase a pair of Thaon di Revel-class OPV's for €1.18 bil. which works out to NZD$2.25 bil. for two vessels which is certainly in the realm of frigate pricing. Now even if these vessels for Indonesia are more of a frigate vs. OPV fitout, I cannot see a vessel based off this class being able to get a non-frigate fitout to be priced competitively vs. a normal OPV build and fitout.

To me, the Thaon di Revel class has always looked like a sneaky way of getting more frigates for the Marina Militare. Now they're in service, 'Light' ones are scheduled for upgrading.

 

[Stampede]

I will agree that going with an all OPV naval patrol force would be a compromise, but I would disagree that it would be a solution of any sort.

After all, if the RNZN were to find itself without any naval combat forces, NZ would be incapable of escorting vessels and would be forced to rely upon friends/allies.

The entirety of the NZDF's ASuW and ASW capabilities would rest upon the P-8 Poseidons and possibly any armed naval helicopters, if there were to get acquired. Also, if the RNZN is left without surface combatants, the utility and value of naval helicopters like the MH-60R 'Romeo' Seahawk or NFH90 is significantly if not entirely diminished, which in turn would mean it would make little sense spending so much coin on a platform where 80% of the capabilities cannot be utilized.

From my POV, GBAD and land-based AShM would be an expensive way to waste significant coin, coin that the NZDF has never had enough of over the last 30+ years. Such capabilities would really only possibly become useful if NZ were to get directly threatened or attacked following an outbreak of hostilities. Even if NZ were to suddenly become a target though, these land-based systems would also need to be positioned somewhere within NZ where both the sensors could detect and track potential targets, and the launched missiles could then hit those targets. A unit based in Auckland would be of little use in defending Wellington, never mind anywhere on South Island. By the same token, if there was a unit based in/near Christchurch, then Auckland would not be covered, never mind ports and harbours further north like Whangaroa or Whangarei.

Also, any land-based units would be worth SFA in keeping the SLOC to NZ open and/or protecting essential merchant marine shipping traffic like tankers. All a hostile force would need to do would be to intercept or interdict NZ-bound tankers say 300 n miles away from NZ ports and NZ would be effectively unable to do anything about it. All the while Kiwi petroleum supplies would begin to dwindle. If enough such tankers get lost along the SLOC leading to NZ, then NZ could effectively run out of power and have little ability to do anything.

I agree with just about all of the above.

Just highlights the wide variety of challenges and how best to balance the response with limited resources

Again I can only suggest NZ should be very prudent in their choices.
Whatever the future direction of capabilities sort commitment is the key even if the capabilities are not too aspirational.

Under armed Frigates in minimal numbers is a compromise that achieves little in true capability.

NZ pretty much has a clean sheet to Aquire a navy for the next generation.

What realistically does that look like?

Thanks for your engagement

Cheers S

 

[Xthenaki]

Under armed Frigates in minimal numbers is a compromise that achieves little in true capability.

The Govt have stated that they are keeping the ANZACs into the 2030's It gives them more time to make a decision but more importantly time needed for any protracted delivery of replacements. In other words frigate replacements are in the region of eight to ten years distant based on that decision. Thats a very long time.

What realistically does that look like?

SOPV to cover the Southern Ocean and Antarctica, LPD, Corvettes and drone mother ship are but some to consider and even brought forward if favourable to the time frame and to maintain continuity of the upgrade.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

SOPV to cover the Southern Ocean and Antarctica, LPD, Corvettes and drone mother ship are but some to consider and even brought forward if favourable to the time frame and to maintain continuity of the upgrade.

SOPV: Yes is needed.
Corvettes: disagree... though the line is blurred between a corvettes and frigates as they are with frigates and destroyers.
LPD/Small LHD: Yes agreed however if you are wanting a drone ship as well the Singaporean Endurance 170
Drone mother ship: Not needed as your LPD's and or small LHD can achieve the same thing and more...