Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[Xthenaki]

Hi Xthenaki.

Isn't Australia to build 8 new general purpose frigates at Henderson?
Could it be of advantageous in ordering our 4 new frigates from there too?

Hi Catalina
StevoJH posted above that filling Australias need for more frigates would keep NZ out of their building program for some time. Our first two replacement frigates (Min) will need to be sourced elsewhere. We will be in the expansion phrase for a long time so our ability to phase in new builds with adequate crew will require good planning. No one wants to see new builds laid up. So joining the continuous Naval replacement program that Australia has is now a no brainer for the future if and when we could join it.

 

[Armchair]

Hi Xthenaki.

Isn't Australia to build 8 new general purpose frigates at Henderson?
Could it be of advantageous in ordering our 4 new frigates from there too?

Australia has to build the yard and then its own 8 frigates so that would push that order into the 2050s. Too late for ANZAC replacement.
Edit. deleted matter already covered

 

[Xthenaki]

OK - so Sth Korea becomes another attractive alternative to throw into the mix with others as have been mentioned

 

[Catalina]

Australia has to build the yard and then its own 8 frigates so that would push that order into the 2050s. Too late for ANZAC replacement.
Edit. deleted matter already covered

Thank you for the information on Henderson. Yes such a delay that the construction and sequencing you refer to is unacceptable.

 

[Catalina]

Large drone spotted as Communist Chinese Type 054A Frigate sails by...

Anyone with any idea on the likely drone type thank you.

 

[Catalina]

When Ordering Our New Ferries...

...it makes sense to order dual purpose civilian-military ferries for the upcoming Pacific War with the Communist Chinese Regime.

Under the Chinese Communist Party 2016 National Defence Transportation Act, all ferries built in China must be built to military standard and are required to support Communist Chinese Defence requirements. The CCP understands and is preparing for the next Pacific War - as evidenced by its February 2025 rehearsed naval attack of Australia.

In both World War One and World War Two our government requested ferries for military operations. Our civilian ferry Monowai for example fought off the attacking Japanese submarine I-20 off Fiji on 16th January 1942. This civilian ferry fought off an attacking submarine because she had been equipped with self defence weapons. Likewise, designing our upcoming ferries to be Fitted For But Not With self defence weapons, such as a mount for a CIWS like HMS Aotearoa is a prudent and relatively inexpensive step when done during design and construction, and prepares them for their next 35 years of sailing up into 2060, when the South Pacific will certainly be even more of a Communist Chinese lake.

Given the Communist Chinese attacks on the sovereignty of New Zealand to the North, South, West, and East of New Zealand it makes national sense to order these ferries built to military standards for dual civilian/military use.

 

[spoz]

Calling three ships merely steaming around the country a “rehearsed Naval attack of Australia” Is a bit of a long bow! “‘Demonstration of capability to deploy task units at long range from support” might be a little closer to what they actually achieved.

 

[Xthenaki]

When Ordering Our New Ferries...

...it makes sense to order dual purpose civilian-military ferries for the upcoming Pacific War with the Communist Chinese Regime.

Under the Chinese Communist Party 2016 National Defence Transportation Act, all ferries built in China must be built to military standard and are required to support Communist Chinese Defence requirements. The CCP understands and is preparing for the next Pacific War - as evidenced by its February 2025 rehearsed naval attack of Australia.

In both World War One and World War Two our government requested ferries for military operations. Our civilian ferry Monowai for example fought off the attacking Japanese submarine I-20 off Fiji on 16th January 1942. This civilian ferry fought off an attacking submarine because she had been equipped with self defence weapons. Likewise, designing our upcoming ferries to be Fitted For But Not With self defence weapons, such as a mount for a CIWS like HMS Aotearoa is a prudent and relatively inexpensive step when done during design and construction, and prepares them for their next 35 years of sailing up into 2060, when the South Pacific will certainly be even more of a Communist Chinese lake.

Given the Communist Chinese attacks on the sovereignty of New Zealand to the North, South, West, and East of New Zealand it makes national sense to order these ferries built to military standards for dual civilian/military use.

 

[Xthenaki]

Just for the record "Monowai" was requisitioned in 1939 by our navy and in 1940 was commissioned until 1943 as the armed merchant cruiser HMNZS "Monowai" F59 . She was classed as a passenger ship and not a passenger ferry.

 

[kiwi in exile]

the upcoming Pacific War with the Communist Chinese Regime.

I'm not saying you are wrong but can you soften your tone a bit?

China is definetely preparing for something
Our Best Look Yet At China’s New ‘Invasion Barges’

 

[kiwi in exile]

Defence Force can't service Poseidon planes, sends them to Australia instead - Nighthawk.NZ

Nighthawk.NZ is a blog news site. Some blog posts may offend you... and guess what I don't care.

nighthawk.nz

We should invest in the shared AI sonobouy processing capability mentioned in the article with Uk, US and Oz. Imagine us sending a p8 on a coalition sub hunting venture and we are out of the loop tactical picture: "scuze me bro, can you fax us those sub co-ordinates, my phones outta credit, churr"

This would be the advantages of AUKUS pillar 2

 

[Catalina]

a “rehearsed Naval attack of Australia” Is a bit of a long bow!

In February 2022 the tyrannical autocratic Communist Chinese Regime demonstrated its ability to position modern warships within striking range of high value Australian targets, strategically intimidated Australia (and NZ), and through rehearsed simulated drills improved their ability to attack Australia.

Given the increased growing hostility between PLAN and Australia military units, do we not think that the Peoples Army Navy Liberation high command used this as a military rehearsal of the ability of their naval forces to position themselves to attack Australia?

The Communist Chinese Party Central Military Commission (CMC) sent their most powerful surface combatant, the Type 055 Renhai class cruiser Zunyi with 112 land attack and anti ship missiles, including the CJ-10 long sword, the Chinese tomahawk equivalent, within striking range of the military, economic, and political heart of Australia. RAAF Base Amberley, the ADF's largest operational air base 40km south west of Brisbane, RAAF Base Williamtown the ADF's premier fighter base 30km north of New Castle, and Fleet Base East off Sydney were all held hostage to PLAN Task Group 107.

Do we think that the sailors on board were not being ordered to tireless ensure their missiles were ready to fire at a moments notice, that they were not being ordered to practice no notice targeting simulated missile launches, and that they were not being drilled hard at attacking the Australian mainland and shadowing forces?

If we don't think the Captain and his CCP Political Officer were not working their crew hard on simulating attacking Australia as they sailed by the above high value targets, then we are falling under the seductive blanket of imaging intent through our Western eyes rather than understanding the cold hearted reality of increased aggressive communist military capability off our shores.

Through this rehearsed attack on Australia the CCP has increased their capability and experience in attacking our ally.

How should the NZDF prepare for when the CCP sends its warships off Auckland and Wellington to block our sea and air routes and strike our military and civilian infrastructure from the sea?

 

[John Fedup]

In February 2022 the tyrannical autocratic Communist Chinese Regime demonstrated its ability to position modern warships within striking range of high value Australian targets, strategically intimidated Australia (and NZ), and through rehearsed simulated drills improved their ability to attack Australia.

Given the increased growing hostility between PLAN and Australia military units, do we not think that the Peoples Army Navy Liberation high command used this as a military rehearsal of the ability of their naval forces to position themselves to attack Australia?

The Communist Chinese Party Central Military Commission (CMC) sent their most powerful surface combatant, the Type 055 Renhai class cruiser Zunyi with 112 land attack and anti ship missiles, including the CJ-10 long sword, the Chinese tomahawk equivalent, within striking range of the military, economic, and political heart of Australia. RAAF Base Amberley, the ADF's largest operational air base 40km south west of Brisbane, RAAF Base Williamtown the ADF's premier fighter base 30km north of New Castle, and Fleet Base East off Sydney were all held hostage to PLAN Task Group 107.

Do we think that the sailors on board were not being ordered to tireless ensure their missiles were ready to fire at a moments notice, that they were not being ordered to practice no notice targeting simulated missile launches, and that they were not being drilled hard at attacking the Australian mainland and shadowing forces?

If we don't think the Captain and his CCP Political Officer were not working their crew hard on simulating attacking Australia as they sailed by the above high value targets, then we are falling under the seductive blanket of imaging intent through our Western eyes rather than understanding the cold hearted reality of increased aggressive communist military capability off our shores.

Through this rehearsed attack on Australia the CCP has increased their capability and experience in attacking our ally.

The PLAN has to deal with Japan, the US, and very likely SKorea before looking to Australia and NZ. Will India be content to allow Chinese tankers free access to ME oil. What about Singapore? If the US abandoned Asia then other allies might bend the knee to Xi which would put Australia and NZ in “stuff”. Few good options then.

 

[At lakes]

In February 2022 the tyrannical autocratic Communist Chinese Regime demonstrated its ability to position modern warships within striking range of high value Australian targets, strategically intimidated Australia (and NZ), and through rehearsed simulated drills improved their ability to attack Australia.

Given the increased growing hostility between PLAN and Australia military units, do we not think that the Peoples Army Navy Liberation high command used this as a military rehearsal of the ability of their naval forces to position themselves to attack Australia?

The Communist Chinese Party Central Military Commission (CMC) sent their most powerful surface combatant, the Type 055 Renhai class cruiser Zunyi with 112 land attack and anti ship missiles, including the CJ-10 long sword, the Chinese tomahawk equivalent, within striking range of the military, economic, and political heart of Australia. RAAF Base Amberley, the ADF's largest operational air base 40km south west of Brisbane, RAAF Base Williamtown the ADF's premier fighter base 30km north of New Castle, and Fleet Base East off Sydney were all held hostage to PLAN Task Group 107.

Do we think that the sailors on board were not being ordered to tireless ensure their missiles were ready to fire at a moments notice, that they were not being ordered to practice no notice targeting simulated missile launches, and that they were not being drilled hard at attacking the Australian mainland and shadowing forces?

If we don't think the Captain and his CCP Political Officer were not working their crew hard on simulating attacking Australia as they sailed by the above high value targets, then we are falling under the seductive blanket of imaging intent through our Western eyes rather than understanding the cold hearted reality of increased aggressive communist military capability off our shores.

Through this rehearsed attack on Australia the CCP has increased their capability and experience in attacking our ally.

How should the NZDF prepare for when the CCP sends its warships off Auckland and Wellington to block our sea and air routes and strike our military and civilian infrastructure from the sea?

i think its more of a case of "you sail the SCS under the guise of Freedom of navigation well we (PLAN) can sail around your area under the freedom of navigation, in international waters. Two combat Vessels and a support vessel an invasion force it does not make.

 

[StingrayOZ]

The Communist Chinese Party Central Military Commission (CMC) sent their most powerful surface combatant, the Type 055 Renhai class cruiser Zunyi with 112 land attack and anti ship missiles, including the CJ-10 long sword, the Chinese tomahawk equivalent, within striking range of the military, economic, and political heart of Australia. RAAF Base Amberley, the ADF's largest operational air base 40km south west of Brisbane, RAAF Base Williamtown the ADF's premier fighter base 30km north of New Castle, and Fleet Base East off Sydney were all held hostage to PLAN Task Group 10

This presumes Australia has no capacity to apply pressure back in an actual hot war scenario. Its does. But the Chinese ships were not a dry run for attacking mainland Australia. It was a proof of long range capability. The only other time the Chinese had sent a ship to the Tasman sea was when there were invited for the fleet review.

It was more about Freedom of navigation, and activity Australia definitely conducts, but is often used pretty extensively by the Americans. The Chinese did nothing illegal. It was perhaps poor form, and impolite, but not illegal. Australia doesn't get many Freedom of navigation exercises around it, so this is new for us, but the UK has to deal with the Russians sailing through the english channel mere kilometers from the UK mainland all the time, as do the Japanese, as do the koreans, and everyone else. Chinese ability to project actual naval capability to Australian/NZ waters is no longer, theoretical.

What it did do, is make everyone, including the Greens in AU, and politics in general in NZ, more away of defence. If the Chinese wanted to prioritise defence in AU/NZ they have done it.

From NZ point of view, they really now need to have a good open eyed look at the world, and figure out how they are going to operate within it. The good news there is this friendly partner Australia, who they still have a great relationship with. While the US breaks all its alliance structures, that may make NZ aligning itself more to Australia more attractive and useful.

Because if they want to go it alone, NZ did not have any real capability to apply pressure back in a hot situation, by itself. So I think NZ would want to look at building a stronger relationship with Australia, a country they have hundreds of years history with, a country they have huge influence and connection to, and a country who genuinely shares their values and aspirations and regional outlook. It doesn't diminish NZ to do that, often some of the greatest and most important moments are when the two nations work together to solve common problems and challenges. China is just but one of those, and it may not even be the most pressing.

 

[hauritz]

This presumes Australia has no capacity to apply pressure back in an actual hot war scenario. Its does. But the Chinese ships were not a dry run for attacking mainland Australia. It was a proof of long range capability. The only other time the Chinese had sent a ship to the Tasman sea was when there were invited for the fleet review.

It was more about Freedom of navigation, and activity Australia definitely conducts, but is often used pretty extensively by the Americans. The Chinese did nothing illegal. It was perhaps poor form, and impolite, but not illegal. Australia doesn't get many Freedom of navigation exercises around it, so this is new for us, but the UK has to deal with the Russians sailing through the english channel mere kilometers from the UK mainland all the time, as do the Japanese, as do the koreans, and everyone else. Chinese ability to project actual naval capability to Australian/NZ waters is no longer, theoretical.

What it did do, is make everyone, including the Greens in AU, and politics in general in NZ, more away of defence. If the Chinese wanted to prioritise defence in AU/NZ they have done it.

From NZ point of view, they really now need to have a good open eyed look at the world, and figure out how they are going to operate within it. The good news there is this friendly partner Australia, who they still have a great relationship with. While the US breaks all its alliance structures, that may make NZ aligning itself more to Australia more attractive and useful.

Because if they want to go it alone, NZ did not have any real capability to apply pressure back in a hot situation, by itself. So I think NZ would want to look at building a stronger relationship with Australia, a country they have hundreds of years history with, a country they have huge influence and connection to, and a country who genuinely shares their values and aspirations and regional outlook. It doesn't diminish NZ to do that, often some of the greatest and most important moments are when the two nations work together to solve common problems and challenges. China is just but one of those, and it may not even be the most pressing.

Over the next few years we can expect to see more and more Chinese ships probing Australia's Sothern flanks. The Chinese have already told us as much.

It may well raise public awareness on defence and help ease the path to increased defence spending. What it will also do however is allow the Chinese to remind us that we have a lot of juicy targets down there. During any hot war a government will now have to decide whether it will base its air and naval assets to our north or send those assets south to protect southern Australia and NZ from any real, or imagined, attack from the PLAN.