Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[Rocco_NZ]

Plenty of room yet. Link below is a photo taken after TASMANEX 02

http://www.navymuseum.mil.nz/nr/rdonlyres/c8d58d73-28ec-4ac4-9773-75968be7586a/0/airealofdevonportnavalbasecalliopewharfs.jpg

The largest issue at the moment is the supply of shore power, which is being dealt with.

 

[Sea Toby]

It does appear there is still plenty of room left at the naval base. However, electric power shortages of Auckland, along with the naval base, should be a top priority item for the government. A large 3-4 GW nuclear powered plant would solve the power shortages for quite a while, but I doubt whether this anti-nuke government would ever proceed with a nuclear powered plant. I would think this is more of a civilian matter than military.

 

[Rocco_NZ]

It does appear there is still plenty of room left at the naval base. However, electric power shortages of Auckland, along with the naval base, should be a top priority item for the government. <snip> would think this is more of a civilian matter than military.

Think you might have got your wires crossed (so to speak!). See below:

Replacement of Devonport Naval Base 60hz Power Generation and Reticulation
Description

32. This project will upgrade the current 60 hertz (Hz) power generation and reticulation system at Devonport Naval Base.

Policy Value

33. All RNZN ships are equipped with an onboard capacity to generate 60Hz power. When berthed, however, it is highly desirable for this power to be generated independently using a shore-based system. Not proceeding with the upgrade of the 60Hz power generation and reticulation system at Devonport Naval Base would make it very difficult for the Navy to maintain its current fleet at the level required to meet the Government's defence policy objectives. The risk of policy failure will increase as the Project Protector vessels enter into service from 2007 onwards.

Capability Gap

34. The Devonport Naval Base is currently equipped with a generation and reticulation system that converts 50Hz power supplied from the national grid to 60Hz. But the infrastructure is old and is unable to support the existing fleet. Each ANZAC frigate, for example, consumes half the total output. Temporary generating capacity is therefore hired, at considerable cost, whenever a high proportion of the fleet is berthed at Devonport. This has, however, become increasingly problematic as the permanent system deteriorates and outages become more frequent. Managing this shortfall will become even more difficult once the Project Protector vessels come online.

 

[Sea Toby]

I think that is great. 60 Hz conversion is important.

However, I was under the impression that the hydro electric scheme of New Zealand is facing a similar power shortage as quickly if not quicker than the oil shortage. Whether its Peak Oil, or Peak hydro power, limiting energy resources have the same result. Either more production, or more conservation.

In other words, if there is a shore power problem, such as a black out, there is going to be a ship power problem from shore.

 

[Rocco_NZ]

I think that is great. 60 Hz conversion is important.

However, I was under the impression that the hydro electric scheme of New Zealand is facing a similar power shortage as quickly if not quicker than the oil shortage. Whether its Peak Oil, or Peak hydro power, limiting energy resources have the same result. Either more production, or more conservation.

In other words, if there is a shore power problem, such as a black out, there is going to be a ship power problem from shore.

Na, heaps of capacity yet. We get these warnings aboute electricity the year after every drought

 

[KH-12]

Its all about positioning so the suppliers can hike up the spot rate and make a killing.

Anyone heard any update on Otago's progress it should be heading across the Tasman about now.

 

[Sea Toby]

I feel sorry for those who bought large SUVs four years ago expecting their vehicles to keep their sales value, or blue book prices. My ..... the mighty have fallen, those vehicles barely get a trade in of scrap today.

 

[KH-12]

I feel sorry for those who bought large SUVs four years ago expecting their vehicles to keep their sales value, or blue book prices. My ..... the mighty have fallen, those vehicles barely get a trade in of scrap today.

I have no sympathy whatsoever, SUV's are an obsenity and always have been in any other context than a farm

Perhaps someone should design a wind augmented OPV, with the price of fuel the way it is, would be an interesting concept.

 

[KiwiRob]

There are a number of issues involved in relocation the armaments depot, but it also needs to be considered in conjuction with the fact that the Dry Dock can't take Canterbury and probably Endeavours replacement - It maybe time to seriously relocate the main Naval Base to Picton. Remove the remaining training activities to Philomel from Narrowneck, would be part of the process.

Hmm why would you want to move the naval base to Picton, I think Whangarei (Marsden Point) would be a much better place:

*It has more space to build a base
*I'm pretty sure the locals would love to have it, not so sure about Picton
*The local economy and the far North as a whole would benefit more from the relocation than the relatively better off Picton.
*It already has a natural deep water port, Marsden Point has a lot of wharf space already and there are plans to expand it
*Tenix is in Port Whangarei
*It has great road and rail links to Auckland

Picton might be a good place to base and IPV and an OPV, I don't think the entire Nazy should move south.

 

[KiwiRob]

I have no sympathy whatsoever, SUV's are an obsenity and always have been in any other context than a farm

They aren't even very good in an average NZ farm, far too big a Hilux or something similar is a much better vehicle.

 

[Rocco_NZ]

Hmm why would you want to move the naval base to Picton, I think Whangarei (Marsden Point) would be a much better place:

*It has more space to build a base
*I'm pretty sure the locals would love to have it, not so sure about Picton
*The local economy and the far North as a whole would benefit more from the relocation than the relatively better off Picton.
*It already has a natural deep water port, Marsden Point has a lot of wharf space already and there are plans to expand it
*Tenix is in Port Whangarei
*It has great road and rail links to Auckland

Picton might be a good place to base and IPV and an OPV, I don't think the entire Nazy should move south.

Tenix is closing. The idea of relocating the base was floating around in the mid-90s and died a natural death. The reality is that there aren't jobs for partners in any of the three locations suggested (Picton, Wellington or Whangarei). And no one actually wanted to move.

 

[Lucasnz]

Tenix is closing. The idea of relocating the base was floating around in the mid-90s and died a natural death. The reality is that there aren't jobs for partners in any of the three locations suggested (Picton, Wellington or Whangarei). And no one actually wanted to move.

Actually if I were still in the navy - I wouldn't want to move. The social relocation costs and issues would be huge, for the service people and their families and the new location. While relocation did die a natural death in the 1990's, I think we need to be looking to the future. The ANZAC replacements will be larger again if international trends continue etc.


On a side note - The Otago Daily Times had an article stating that Otago had failed Lloyds certification. The issue revolves around the RHIB. Read here

 

[swerve]

I feel sorry for those who bought large SUVs four years ago expecting their vehicles to keep their sales value, or blue book prices. My ..... the mighty have fallen, those vehicles barely get a trade in of scrap today.

No sympathy from me. 99% of Chelsea tractors were bought by people who wanted (literally & metaphorically) to be able to look down on other drivers & the majority drive as if they're in an AFV & are happy to run others off the road. Waste of road space, waste of metal, waste of fuel.

I feel sorry for those who need high fuel consumption vehicles for work, e.g. farmers. But very few of them drive SUVs. They usually have a basic utility version Land Rover, Toyota Hilux, etc.

 

[kato]

There are actually a couple people around the neighborhood with Ford F1500s. Gotta really hurt with gas around $9/gallon.

I have relatives who are farmers. None of em drive SUVs, pickups or jeeps of any kind, and have never done so. Zero use.

 

[Sea Toby]

Actually if I were still in the navy - I wouldn't want to move. The social relocation costs and issues would be huge, for the service people and their families and the new location. While relocation did die a natural death in the 1990's, I think we need to be looking to the future. The ANZAC replacements will be larger again if international trends continue etc.


On a side note - The Otago Daily Times had an article stating that Otago had failed Lloyds certification. The issue revolves around the RHIB. Read here

Australia may choose a FREEM or something similar, but I suspect New Zealand will choose something similar to a F2000 if they were to choose now. Therefore it could be a smaller ship. But at this moment, the Anzacs still have possibly 15 or 20 more years of life.

As far as Lloyds Registry, I suspect most of the problems deal much like meeting construction codes. Such as moving a wall a few inches and ending up with a sprinkler head or exhaust vents to close to the wall. The devil is in the details, and knowing the codes. Ask anyone who has built a house.

 

[KiwiRob]

Tenix is closing. The idea of relocating the base was floating around in the mid-90s and died a natural death. The reality is that there aren't jobs for partners in any of the three locations suggested (Picton, Wellington or Whangarei). And no one actually wanted to move.

There aren't any places with jobs for partners in Waiouru or Ohakea either, if it's not a problem forthe Army or Airforce I can't see why the Navy is any different.

 

[Rocco_NZ]

There aren't any places with jobs for partners in Waiouru or Ohakea either, if it's not a problem forthe Army or Airforce I can't see why the Navy is any different.

Who says it isn't a problem?

 

[alexsa]

As far as Lloyds Registry, I suspect most of the problems deal much like meeting construction codes. Such as moving a wall a few inches and ending up with a sprinkler head or exhaust vents to close to the wall. The devil is in the details, and knowing the codes. Ask anyone who has built a house.

The class rules are not so purile or prescriptive as you suggest. You cannot be this definitive in ship design as in most cases the ship design is different. Without knowing the gist of theproblem it is worth noting that msot rules work on the basis of sufficnet strength and measures to ensure safety and the vessel has adequate stability not this bulkhead must be x inches from that one.

A lot of the design work of a vessel goes into its structure to ensure there is adequate strenght and stress iss are addressed eithe by reinformceing or avoiding stress points. (oneof the reason I cringe at the constant redesignsuggestiosn for ship). The there is the electical systems, auxiallry services etc etc etc.

 

[ThePuss]

Ok agreed that the DNB is very tight but I think it is unrealistic to think that it will ever be moved.

Ok so how can we make it better?.

http://maps.pomocnik.com/satellite-maps/?map=2012

Is it possible to extend the dry dock?. There is not any room to extend it inland (though you could widen it where it tapers in). That leaves extending it out into the bay. The times that I have visted the base the small wharf that runs directly from the end of the dock never gets used as its to small for any of the ships/PB's. Could you remove it and then extend the dock out into the bay?.

Is width also a problem for Canterbury?

I realise the fact that the dock being historic my preclude any of these ideas.

I understand the old PB barge has been removed. from the photo its obviously too small for the new PB's (in the photo you can see it up near the small syncro lift). How about building a new purpose built wharf up where the barge was for the new PB's and the dive tender.

That would free up the two main wharfs for the two FFH's,Canterbury Endeavor,the OPV's and the Survey ship. On the rare occasion that all ships would be in or visting ships made it more crowded double berthing may be necessary but thats not the end of the world by any means.

Also I just remembered seeing the old decommissioned Canterbury tied up next to the big sheds of the dry dock so that wharf could be used as a overflow or for the PB's.

In conculssion I believe the base it more than capable of accommodating the new "Protectored" navy but some serious work needs to be put into making it so.

Thoughts?


P.s you can "grab" the photo to move up and see the top of the base

 

[Gibbo]

... Is it possible to extend the dry dock?. There is not any room to extend it inland (though you could widen it where it tapers in). That leaves extending it out into the bay. ....

I can't speak from an engineering perspective but pushing out seaward would seem feasible.

With regards to Canterbury - I've seen no official 'yes' or 'no' with regard to whether she does fit or not! I would have thought the ability to fit in Calliope dock would've been a key design objective of the project, but no such mention has been made that I'm aware of.

InterIslander ferries Arahura & Aratere have both been in the dock - and are significantly longer than Canterbury - but about 3 metres narrower in beam, so I would see beam as the limiting factor if indeed Canterbury can't squeeze in.

I guess if there's a will (and funding) there's a way!!!