Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

spoz

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Imagine she is coming over to go through workup and the wreckers. I think the Kiwis still use RAN resources for that; it almost certainly wouldn't be worth maintaining their own full time group..
 

Nighthawk.NZ

Well-Known Member
Pretty sure this is after the SaR and other minor exercise Te Kaha did in the Gulf...

While I agree that she needs a spruce up... I believe she is technically still in refit and or maintenance period... (as silly as it sounds) Canada won the contract to fit and test all the systems but not any of the general maintenance and she is due for a dry dock session.

I also want to know when dos she get her CIWS back??
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
Pretty sure this is after the SaR and other minor exercise Te Kaha did in the Gulf...

While I agree that she needs a spruce up... I believe she is technically still in refit and or maintenance period... (as silly as it sounds) Canada won the contract to fit and test all the systems but not any of the general maintenance and she is due for a dry dock session.

I also want to know when dos she get her CIWS back??

Talk about timing...just been to a BBQ & was talking to a 20 year RNZN personnel member... Te Kaha has come back without completing trials and needs a lot of TLC...so I also got the impression that yes she is still effectively in refit. Aotearoa is also having issues although these sound relatively manageable.
 

Shanesworld

Well-Known Member
Talk about timing...just been to a BBQ & was talking to a 20 year RNZN personnel member... Te Kaha has come back without completing trials and needs a lot of TLC...so I also got the impression that yes she is still effectively in refit. Aotearoa is also having issues although these sound relatively manageable.
Heard similar thing but sourcing qual' and experienced pers at the moment to finish the refit (due to a mysterious illness of unknown origin) is posing further issues.
 

Lucasnz

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Stuff is reporting that its unlikely that well have an operational frigate until 2022. Frankly the whole refit saga as been a screw up, given the length of time its taken. The comments on how Treasury might view the lack of frigates is also interesting given the comments in the recent navy publication.
 

chis73

Active Member
Well, one good thing has come from COVID-19: the NZ Parliament has finally got its act together and started publishing video of proceedings online. You can watch video of the NZ MoD & NZDF 2019/2020 Annual Review hearing with the Foreign Affairs, Defence, & Trade Select Committee (held 18 Feb 2021) here (it's about 70 min). About time we caught up with Australian, US & UK parliamentary practice.
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
Stuff is reporting that its unlikely that well have an operational frigate until 2022. Frankly the whole refit saga as been a screw up, given the length of time its taken. The comments on how Treasury might view the lack of frigates is also interesting given the comments in the recent navy publication.

Hmm, yeah...not impressed with the final comment '...He said the years without operational frigates would raise questions within the government, particularly within Treasury, about whether such vessels were truly needed or required replacing in the future, as the Cabinet pushed on with a “pretty ambitious” defence capability plan'... is what CDF Short is hearing behind closed doors!?! A comment like that will be seized upon by those who have that agenda...and that agenda might, worryingly, also exist in the NZDF.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Stuff is reporting that its unlikely that well have an operational frigate until 2022. Frankly the whole refit saga as been a screw up, given the length of time its taken. The comments on how Treasury might view the lack of frigates is also interesting given the comments in the recent navy publication.
It is 3 years since TK sailed away for its FSU. Thus it will be 4 years or in other words the time the US fought in WW2, until the ship and crew are fully combat ready!

And we will also be down to single Anzac again in 2027-2018 for around 12 months as TM and TK will both go into a further life extension due to them being pushed out for another 5-6 years of service under the current Governments so called "Enhanced Strategic Project" plan that went to Cabinet last year. However to be fair, the previous government in 2017 was suggesting creeping TK and TM out to circa 2030 as they became aware of the delays and budget over-run to get more VFM out of them. Mind you the Key's government had us down to a part-time frigate Navy circa 2012 when the PSU project was underway.

Under the "Enhanced Strategic Project" scenario, the plan is replace the Anzac's with two Frigates mid 2030's, replace the two OPV's with two larger more capable OPV"s early 2030's, the CY in 2027, the SOPV to arrive in the same timeframe, the Manawanui in the early 2030's and have the 2nd Strategic Amphibious ship arrive before the Anzac replacement.

The two Anzacs were envisaged following the DWP10 and prior to their current upgrade in 2014 to to be able to provide a "relevant combat capability" for the following decade once the FSU had been completed with the then due exit dates of 2027 (TK) and 2029 (TM).

Now the plan is to give them a further major refit to get them to the later revised date of replacements circa 2035. They will not be relevant in a combat sense post 2030. I doubt very much any sort of combat systems upgrade will happen, that it will be more just a keep them going for a few more years.

The strategic risk to having 0 or just 1 Frigates available between early 2018 to late 2022 they might get away with. However, the strategic environment and consequences I fear will become even more pronounced later in this decade and into the following. They will not get away with it a second time.

All such mistakes have their genesis years before. Twenty years ago ADM's Teagle, Wilson and Welch, plus others, all predicted this eventuality, now present, when we dropped the option to buy at least three Anzac's. They correctly predicted, as flag rank professionals, that just two vessels would be overused, wear out at a faster rate and that any set backs or issues in a future refit may cause us to be without any Frigates for a period of time. How right those gentleman were.
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
It is 3 years since TK sailed away for its FSU. Thus it will be 4 years or in other words the time the US fought in WW2, until the ship and crew are fully combat ready!

And we will also be down to single Anzac again in 2027-2018 for around 12 months as TM and TK will both go into a further life extension due to them being pushed out for another 5-6 years of service under the current Governments so called "Enhanced Strategic Project" plan that went to Cabinet last year. However to be fair, the previous government in 2017 was suggesting creeping TK and TM out to circa 2030 as they became aware of the delays and budget over-run to get more VFM out of them. Mind you the Key's government had us down to a part-time frigate Navy circa 2012 when the PSU project was underway.

Under the "Enhanced Strategic Project" scenario, the plan is replace the Anzac's with two Frigates mid 2030's, replace the two OPV's with two larger more capable OPV"s early 2030's, the CY in 2027, the SOPV to arrive in the same timeframe, the Manawanui in the early 2030's and have the 2nd Strategic Amphibious ship arrive before the Anzac replacement.

The two Anzacs were envisaged following the DWP10 and prior to their current upgrade in 2014 to to be able to provide a "relevant combat capability" for the following decade once the FSU had been completed with the then due exit dates of 2027 (TK) and 2029 (TM).

Now the plan is to give them a further major refit to get them to the later revised date of replacements circa 2035. They will not be relevant in a combat sense post 2030. I doubt very much any sort of combat systems upgrade will happen, that it will be more just a keep them going for a few more years.

The strategic risk to having 0 or just 1 Frigates available between early 2018 to late 2022 they might get away with. However, the strategic environment and consequences I fear will become even more pronounced later in this decade and into the following. They will not get away with it a second time.

All such mistakes have their genesis years before. Twenty years ago ADM's Teagle, Wilson and Welch, plus others, all predicted this eventuality, now present, when we dropped the option to buy at least three Anzac's. They correctly predicted, as flag rank professionals, that just two vessels would be overused, wear out at a faster rate and that any set backs or issues in a future refit may cause us to be without any Frigates for a period of time. How right those gentleman were.

Yes and I see the latest Navy News proudly talks about the 'upgraded Te Kaha'... no mention of the missing Phalanx, complete shit of a paint-job, nor the trials not yet completed. Also as one of those types who reads between the lines by looking for what not's being said, there's the article by CN that spills over to pg6 where he talks of the current fleet by name, and states 'blah, blah...Canterbury, Otago, Wellington and Taupo will continue their outstanding work for 2021 blah, blah...' but no talk of Hawea - do we assume that means she's now tied-up and we are down to 1 x IPV!?!
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Hawea has been alongside at DNB since November. It is still in commission for now. But since last January even though we have had two IPV's only one IPV at a time is going to sea as the Inshore Patrol / Training vessel.
 

Nighthawk.NZ

Well-Known Member
Hawea has been alongside at DNB since November. It is still in commission for now. But since last January even though we have had two IPV's only one IPV at a time is going to sea as the Inshore Patrol / Training vessel.
DCP 2019 does say;
Two inshore patrol vessels will be withdrawn from service and disposed of immediately, leaving two vessels to meet the demands of domestic patrols within the exclusive economic zone. Prior to the Southern Ocean Patrol Vessel coming into service, which will give greater capacity to the offshore patrol fleet, the future of the remaining two inshore patrol vessels will be reassessed
And to be fair there is no date.
 

Hoffy

Member
"First time some of the Kiwi sailors have seen a ship with a gun on it ;)"

C'mon , that's kinda funny. Regardless , it's a great example of what can be achieved with interoperability between our forces.
Looks like it was a good exercise for both navies.
Hopefully we see much more in future.
 
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