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The Wanderer
Cheers
Rob
Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Padman
- Start date
Rob
True, but it is superior if it comes up against other vessels armed only with MG's!
In day to day use the Oz patrol boats would probably use their MG's for most warning shots but their adversaries know that the 25mm gun is ready. The 25mm also has longer range which could prove handy when pursuing an 'illegal' vessel. I like the new Kiwi vessels but I would still like to see a 25mm gun (as in the OZ Armidales) for the times when a MG is not quite enough.
Tas
Investigator
New Member
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A
Aussie Digger
Guest
The surface and aerial surveillance capabilities of the Rafael Typhoon if nothing else, make them worth the effort.
Though of course "mini-typhoon" could arguably be employed and achieve a similar surveillance capability with existing weapon systems...
Disposal Inshore Patrol craft
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/organisation/story.cfm?o_id=439&objectid=10479376
Link to a New Zealand Herald article for those lovers of small craft.
Auckland Shipbrokers web site is worth a visit.
www.ipc.aucklandshipbrokers.com
One IPC is being retained for Navigation training (Kahu).
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/organisation/story.cfm?o_id=439&objectid=10479376
Link to a New Zealand Herald article for those lovers of small craft.
Auckland Shipbrokers web site is worth a visit.
www.ipc.aucklandshipbrokers.com
One IPC is being retained for Navigation training (Kahu).
stryker NZ
New Member
quote from herald article
"Once sold, the previous patrol vessels are expected to lead rather different lives. For example, Takapu, which was sold in 2000, underwent an extensive refit and is now a luxury cruise ship based in Auckland and offering charters in the Hauraki Gulf, the northern Tongan resort area of Vava'u and throughout the South Pacific."
how suitable would they be for civi cruises throughout the south pacific? i thought someone earlier on in this thread said that it was risky even taking the IPC's across the cook straight due to stability issues
Unfortunately, there isn't a war going on for gun size. If we had one we would have reached 16 or 18 inch guns by now.
Project Protector Updates
From various NZ Def Sources:
Second IPV, "Hawea" has been launched, see: http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/news/media-releases/20071214-sppipvl.htm
In the November edition of "Navy Today":
http://www.navy.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/navy-today/nt127-web.pdf
Page 12 - First IPV due be commissioned mid December, Otago late January 2008
From various NZ Def Sources:
Second IPV, "Hawea" has been launched, see: http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/news/media-releases/20071214-sppipvl.htm
In the November edition of "Navy Today":
http://www.navy.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/navy-today/nt127-web.pdf
Page 12 - First IPV due be commissioned mid December, Otago late January 2008
Would be nice to take the 25mm units from the OPV's/MRV put them on the IPV's and replace them with 57mm units as they were originally planned to take (or 76mm) does anyone know if the OPV's/MRV have the structural strength to take the larger weapons and what additional systems would be required to integrate them regards targeting/fire control ?
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Alas December's Navy Today is yet to appear online at http://www.navy.mil.nz/know-your-navy/official-documents/navy-today.htm (can't be too far away, surely) but the December issue has a report and photos of Frigate Te Mana's Mini Typhoon weapon system being installed in the last quarter of 2007 on pg28.
Quote: "One of the most exciting projects has been the installation of the Mini Typhoon weapon system on either side of the bridge-top. The primary role of the Mini Typhoon is to form part of the Force Protection System and deter threats from high speed inshore attack craft. It is also capable of remotely controlled and local operations against slow air, or fast manoeuvering sea and land targets. The system is capable of accurately aimed single shot or burst fire modes, including the ability to fire offset warning shots".
"Additionally, the Electro-Optical Director gives the ship day and night threat detection and tracking capability. The system also has the ability for the sensor package to be used as a surveillance tool, or as a stand alone 12.7mm weapon system". End quote.
Also featured in the Dec issue on pg's 4 & 5, are details on the Platform Systems upgrade for both Frigates scheduled to begin in 2009.
Quote: "A new automated platform management system will be delivered by the upgrade. This will provide full control over all platform systems from the bridge position, reducing the number of technical personnel needed to man the machinery control and engine rooms in the ANZAC's. The modern technology used in the new control and monitoring system will also provide a simulation capability to increase training opportunities, an improved flow of information around the ships, and an enhanced battle damage control system".
"Work is also required on the ANZAC's heating, ventilation and air-conditioning systems to ensure the effective operation of equipment in temperature environments. This work will also improve the working conditions in manned compartments in the ships". End quote.
As an aside a media article written when Te Mana returned from the Gulf of Oman in 2004 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3590751 noted some of these issues including "where temperatures reached 51C and the water was so warm it struggled to cool the ship's engines" and the difficulties with the heat and dehydration that some crews were exposed to ... "The extreme heat meant time limits were set for crew working in enclosed spaces and those on upper decks had to be constantly supervised in case sailors succumbed to dehydration".
The same Navy Today article also reports on another issue that has been raised here before in DT's RAN and RNZN forums regarding the ANZAC's weight etc.
Quote: "A weight-growth margin is required to enable normal through-life growth of the ships, as existing capability is enhanced, additional capability is added and living conditions are improved. As ship weight is increased, however, hull modifications will be needed to ensure the ANZAC's can sustain and survive damage. The upgrade will provide the ANZAC's with a sufficient weight-growth margin to facilitate future capability developments and improvements to living conditions". End quote.
Finally the Govt earlier approved the Phallanx CIWS upgrade to block 1B but is yet to approve the Self Protection upgrade (ESSM etc) although that is expected to start around 2010 IIRC. In November the PM announced a RNZN Frigate will return to the Gulf region prior to Sept 2009.
Quote: "One of the most exciting projects has been the installation of the Mini Typhoon weapon system on either side of the bridge-top. The primary role of the Mini Typhoon is to form part of the Force Protection System and deter threats from high speed inshore attack craft. It is also capable of remotely controlled and local operations against slow air, or fast manoeuvering sea and land targets. The system is capable of accurately aimed single shot or burst fire modes, including the ability to fire offset warning shots".
"Additionally, the Electro-Optical Director gives the ship day and night threat detection and tracking capability. The system also has the ability for the sensor package to be used as a surveillance tool, or as a stand alone 12.7mm weapon system". End quote.
Also featured in the Dec issue on pg's 4 & 5, are details on the Platform Systems upgrade for both Frigates scheduled to begin in 2009.
Quote: "A new automated platform management system will be delivered by the upgrade. This will provide full control over all platform systems from the bridge position, reducing the number of technical personnel needed to man the machinery control and engine rooms in the ANZAC's. The modern technology used in the new control and monitoring system will also provide a simulation capability to increase training opportunities, an improved flow of information around the ships, and an enhanced battle damage control system".
"Work is also required on the ANZAC's heating, ventilation and air-conditioning systems to ensure the effective operation of equipment in temperature environments. This work will also improve the working conditions in manned compartments in the ships". End quote.
As an aside a media article written when Te Mana returned from the Gulf of Oman in 2004 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3590751 noted some of these issues including "where temperatures reached 51C and the water was so warm it struggled to cool the ship's engines" and the difficulties with the heat and dehydration that some crews were exposed to ... "The extreme heat meant time limits were set for crew working in enclosed spaces and those on upper decks had to be constantly supervised in case sailors succumbed to dehydration".
The same Navy Today article also reports on another issue that has been raised here before in DT's RAN and RNZN forums regarding the ANZAC's weight etc.
Quote: "A weight-growth margin is required to enable normal through-life growth of the ships, as existing capability is enhanced, additional capability is added and living conditions are improved. As ship weight is increased, however, hull modifications will be needed to ensure the ANZAC's can sustain and survive damage. The upgrade will provide the ANZAC's with a sufficient weight-growth margin to facilitate future capability developments and improvements to living conditions". End quote.
Finally the Govt earlier approved the Phallanx CIWS upgrade to block 1B but is yet to approve the Self Protection upgrade (ESSM etc) although that is expected to start around 2010 IIRC. In November the PM announced a RNZN Frigate will return to the Gulf region prior to Sept 2009.
Locating the Mini Typhoons either side of the bridge-top rather than above the helo hangar, as in the RAN Anzacs, makes sense as they will be able to combine with the aft mounted upgraded Phalanx CIWS to provide a good all round defence (Phalanx not currently being fitted to the OZ units).
Re the topweight issue it would be interesting to know just how the weight margin is going to be improved. I presume they are communicating with the RAN re this matter.
Tas
Stuart Mackey
New Member
Indeed. From documents from the late 80's on the ANZAC programme, we know that there is weight and space for an additional Mk41 launcher, I would imagine that their would have been some anticipation for any additional systems associated with that alone.
Whilst weight and space for an extra Mk 41 VLS was provided for in the design I am not sure that there is still sufficient weight margin for it. The fitting of an extra VLS has not been included in the (public at any rate) current Anzac upgrade plans for either the RNZN or the RAN and CIWS has not been fitted to any RAN Anzac, even for trial purposes (even though additional units are becoming available as FFGs decommission). This suggests to me that the replacement of Sea Sparrow with ESSM and the fitting of Harpoon and Nulka in the RAN ships has pushed them to the limit so far as stability goes. It appears that the RNZN ships will retain their CIWS when ESSM is fitted but as there are no plans to fit Harpoon this might 'balance out' the weight issue.
Tas
I'm much more worried about the MRV, the new Canterbury. It seems there are still reports of propeller submergence and emergence when the ship rolls during a storm in high seas. I was under the impression the government bought the Canterbury to replace what they called the Chuck Up, the Charles Upham.
A design flaw with the placement of the RHIBs, the alcove being too close to the waterline. Sea water entering the cargo bay through the door/s to the alcove. Reports of propeller submergence and emergence because the anti-roll system can't work as the rolling is to quick. Why put in door to the outside alcove without a watertight door?
Did the navy and the government buy another lemon?
While I figure the RHIBs alcove could be fixed with a door over the alcove, or the RHIBs could be moved to the flight deck, I am still worried about the rolling. What's going to be its answer. And why did the government not buy a ship with fin stabilizers? I realize fins stabilizers don't work under 6 knots, but surely a MRV travels faster?
A design flaw with the placement of the RHIBs, the alcove being too close to the waterline. Sea water entering the cargo bay through the door/s to the alcove. Reports of propeller submergence and emergence because the anti-roll system can't work as the rolling is to quick. Why put in door to the outside alcove without a watertight door?
Did the navy and the government buy another lemon?
While I figure the RHIBs alcove could be fixed with a door over the alcove, or the RHIBs could be moved to the flight deck, I am still worried about the rolling. What's going to be its answer. And why did the government not buy a ship with fin stabilizers? I realize fins stabilizers don't work under 6 knots, but surely a MRV travels faster?
Some holiday snaps of the IPVs:
HMNZS Hawea and Rotoiti alongside
I assume this is HMNZS Pukaki
HMNZS Rotoiti
HMNZS Hawea
HMNZS Hawea and Rotoiti alongside
I assume this is HMNZS Pukaki
HMNZS Rotoiti
HMNZS Hawea