kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Would this be of similar size to what we have now?
Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Padman
- Start date
MUCH larger I would have thought. Unless my recollection is faulty or I've misunderstood what this is proposed to replace, you don't actually have an Antarctic OPV now at all.
oldsig
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
Our current OPV's are;
- Displacement: 1,900 tonnes
- Beam: 14 metres
- Draught: 3.6 metres
- Length: 85 metres
VARD-7-110-OPV
- Length: 109.7 m
- Length Waterline103.8 m
- Beam: 16.5 m
- Depth: 8.1 m
- Design Draft: 5.0 m
VARD 7 110 - Vard Marine
We never really had a dedicated SOPV before the current OPV's can sail to the ross sea and very limited around ice etc,... but can operate in and around summer ice
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kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Come to think of it, with the current flu pandemic I wonder how this will affect military exersizes for us and our defence partners. Given the restrictions placed on travel and large gatherings, or will it be business as usual regarding that?
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
I would have to say almost certainly yes, no foreign port visits for Ships either and any defence personal returning from Overseas Exercises or Ops will almost certainly cop the 14 day quarantine as well.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
The Australian Defence Site has posted the following concerning COVID-19
User account | Defence News
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
double post
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
This would also affect the frigate upgrades in Canada I suppose?The Australian Defence Site has posted the following concerning COVID-19
User account | Defence News
news.defence.gov.au
That's the ADF one. Why would it affect the frigate upgrades in Canada?
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
That's exactly what I was thinking?? just about word for word... lol
According to a recent press release (link), Seaspan in Vancouver was still open for business (admittedly the release is a few weeks old). But at the rate they are going, it's going to be at least September before Te Kaha is finished. The Irving shipyard on the east coast has been closed due to COVID-19 (link).
In Korea, HHI is still expecting Aotearoa to be delivered this quarter (link). Good luck!
On a more general note, is it worth some discussion on what this crisis means for the future of the navy. My own view is that events have overtaken the DCP 2019, so much so that I figure it is now worthless. They should print the next one on loo paper, at least it will then serve a useful function! I think prospects of a second amphibious ship are now moot, as are any plans to move the naval base from Devonport. Perhaps we may get some C-130Js but I wouldn't be surprised if they are delayed as well.
I would welcome people's thoughts on where we go from here?
Here's my thinking... basically if it's committed to, it'll eventually arrive... anything else will just be delayed. Frigates & Aotearoa will eventually make it here... SOPV & 2nd Amphib vessel will at the very least be pushed out with no firm dates... they were never absolute certainties anyway, given the variables of politics, budgets & pandemics! They're still likely to be on the cards in concept at least. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 2 remaining IPV's canned as soon as the Frigates & Aotearoa arrive back. Training & intakes will likely be severely curtailed. P8A may sound a certainty but never, never assume that after what we saw Clark do to the F16 contract. C130J-30... sorry RNZAF, you're going to have to do the best you can with C-130H for 3-4 more years I reckon... we'll end up accepting they can barely operate 40 Sqn on a daily basis.
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Cheeky. I'm sure you guys could figure out I was referring to how covid 19 is affecting everything, right now..
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
I'm surprised how quickly several billion can 'magically' appear in a crisis like this. Ironic even Winston Peters, amoung other world leaders liken this to an invading enemy and putting us on a war footing, yet the ability to actually defend ourselves militarily seems unaffordable.
My own opinion is that the covid 19 pandemic shows how quickly the unexpected can overwhelm a country like ours and should be a warning to us that we need to be more prepared for the unexpected. The world security outlook is poor for the long term and predicted to get worse and we need to address the short comings in our armed forces before it is too late and the window of opportunity is closing all the time. This pandemic should be taken as a warning of how easily it is to be caught out and not as an excuse to delay or cancel defence up grades, but as usual our pollies are quite unable to see past the next election so they will use the excuse that all the money has been used and delay or cancel every thing.
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Considering also in times of crisis like this our military's often are called upon, and the PM said there is a plan for calling in the army to assist with the lockdown if things get out of hand.
My brothers in the police force as a civilian speed camera operator, no way he says Police could patrol even Christchurch effectively under these curcimstances with what, 600 cops? let alone the larger cities of Wellington or Auckland with a million or more.people
.I think the govt should have the army assisting, now, to stop the further congregation of and spreading of the virus,medics,patrols, whatever it takes.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
The issue here is how do you use Soldiers in these circumstances? You can’t have armed Military personnel on the streets. they don’t have the powers of arrest, are not trained to safely detain Civilians, unless you declare Martial Law.
in Australia we have Soldiers helping Police check on people in quarantine but they would not be armed and under strict orders not to push an issue, basically withdraw and notify Police if there is an issue.
Soldiers on the streets enforcing Laws is a disaster waiting to happen.
No it's not bloody cheeky. I was being serious. The Australian and NZ responses to the COVID-19 crisis are different, so it stands to reason that the defence forces of each country will have different responses within their organizations.
I wish @MrConservative is watching because he'd be able to explain the political workings.
Given the political makeup and personalities of the GOTD, I wasn't surprised when the PM quickly and emphatically turned down the possibility of a grand coalition. A grand coalition was in power during WW2 and IIRC at the instigation of the then Labour govt. It united the country behind one united government for the duration of the war with good success. My own view given the situation that the country faces now and for probably the next 2 years, that a grand coalition is in the best interests of the country, with the scheduled 2021 election delayed for 2 years. That would give continuity of govt and less uncertainty.
Prior to the pandemic, NZ was in a very strong fiscal position, more so than Australia, UK, US and Canada, which is giving the govt room to move. NZG debt was 19% of GDP. However with significant borrowing occurring the govt debt to GDP % could end up in the 40s or higher. The economy is stalled at the moment, in fact it's at a dead stop, and starting to run in reverse. However it's not the only one.
After the world recovers from the health impacts of the virus, the international strategic and security scene will be different because of the economic impacts on many nations and the actions of some during the health part of the crisis. Already Germany has called out the US twice on its actions against German health interests, so the Germans will / are not happy with the US. China has a lot to answer for as well. There will be uncertainty as nations struggle to recover from economies that have been ravaged. This will be very much like the great depression, maybe worse and that was one of the causes of WW2, as nations turned inward and became more nationalistic.
That is what NZ has to prepare for because some nations will take advantage of the discord as happened in the 1920s and 1930s. Japan and Nazi Germany weren't the only nations. The US planned for war against the UK if it interfered in the US hegemony of the Americas and its Pacific colonies. This expansion was driven by Teddy Roosevelt prior WW1and well before he entered the White House and when President he advanced the Monroe Doctrine from 1823 as official US policy. He even thought about investing Canada. Roosevelt's plan was to supplant Britain as the dominant power in the world. Russia expanded as well after WW1 with the Bolshevik party consolidating its hold on the USSR and its peoples.
Unfortunately the current GOTD won't see that and even if they do they'll ignore it because it doesn't fit into their political world view. The current opposition, unless they have a change of philosophy and policy will also ignore it because it costs money.
I do think that the C-130J will happen, because the current Hercules cannot be life extended at all and their useby date is quickly approaching. If the GOTD continued to use them and one fell out of the sky with subsequent loss of life, there would be political hell to pay which they couldn't deflect no matter how hard they tried.
The 2 IPVs will stay for the short to medium term. They may find that they will require them for increased border security over the next 2 years. You can find ships at sea with aircraft and remote sensing, but you can't board them from those platforms.
There are going to be many tensions within govt over expenditures etc., and it's already starting with reports of some departments saying that the Ministry of Health has got to big for its boots. However I hold no great hope for the 2019 DCP in its present form. I think that most of the acquisitions will be delayed yet again.
Given the political makeup and personalities of the GOTD, I wasn't surprised when the PM quickly and emphatically turned down the possibility of a grand coalition. A grand coalition was in power during WW2 and IIRC at the instigation of the then Labour govt. It united the country behind one united government for the duration of the war with good success. My own view given the situation that the country faces now and for probably the next 2 years, that a grand coalition is in the best interests of the country, with the scheduled 2021 election delayed for 2 years. That would give continuity of govt and less uncertainty.
Prior to the pandemic, NZ was in a very strong fiscal position, more so than Australia, UK, US and Canada, which is giving the govt room to move. NZG debt was 19% of GDP. However with significant borrowing occurring the govt debt to GDP % could end up in the 40s or higher. The economy is stalled at the moment, in fact it's at a dead stop, and starting to run in reverse. However it's not the only one.
After the world recovers from the health impacts of the virus, the international strategic and security scene will be different because of the economic impacts on many nations and the actions of some during the health part of the crisis. Already Germany has called out the US twice on its actions against German health interests, so the Germans will / are not happy with the US. China has a lot to answer for as well. There will be uncertainty as nations struggle to recover from economies that have been ravaged. This will be very much like the great depression, maybe worse and that was one of the causes of WW2, as nations turned inward and became more nationalistic.
That is what NZ has to prepare for because some nations will take advantage of the discord as happened in the 1920s and 1930s. Japan and Nazi Germany weren't the only nations. The US planned for war against the UK if it interfered in the US hegemony of the Americas and its Pacific colonies. This expansion was driven by Teddy Roosevelt prior WW1and well before he entered the White House and when President he advanced the Monroe Doctrine from 1823 as official US policy. He even thought about investing Canada. Roosevelt's plan was to supplant Britain as the dominant power in the world. Russia expanded as well after WW1 with the Bolshevik party consolidating its hold on the USSR and its peoples.
Unfortunately the current GOTD won't see that and even if they do they'll ignore it because it doesn't fit into their political world view. The current opposition, unless they have a change of philosophy and policy will also ignore it because it costs money.
I do think that the C-130J will happen, because the current Hercules cannot be life extended at all and their useby date is quickly approaching. If the GOTD continued to use them and one fell out of the sky with subsequent loss of life, there would be political hell to pay which they couldn't deflect no matter how hard they tried.
The 2 IPVs will stay for the short to medium term. They may find that they will require them for increased border security over the next 2 years. You can find ships at sea with aircraft and remote sensing, but you can't board them from those platforms.
There are going to be many tensions within govt over expenditures etc., and it's already starting with reports of some departments saying that the Ministry of Health has got to big for its boots. However I hold no great hope for the 2019 DCP in its present form. I think that most of the acquisitions will be delayed yet again.
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
She looks a lot better at sea and seeing all the different angles than I thought she would... lol and looks bigger than I thought to.. .lolKeeping up with our Navy's largest ship
Aotearoa conducting Replenishment At Sea (RAS) Station Keeping Trials off the South Korean coast recently. Accompanied by a Philippine Navy Light Patrol Frigate, the trials assessed the ability for a ship to approach and remain alongside Aotearoa as a confirmation of the ship’s pressure and suction zones during refuelling or replenishment. She passed with flying colours
It won’t be long now before she sets sail for New Zealand and her commissioning.
And I saw a post in here somewhere about if she will be her ras gear before she sails... I can see some of it in the video... but only on one
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