Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[Gibbo]

Does not surprise me one bit... the one I read (which I cannot find now... ) and dated earlier when the designs were first released basically said was going to have them installed so that has changed.

As for speed Endeavour could only do 15 on a good day.

Yes doesn't surprise me either... typical damn penny pinching at the cost of capability. The vessel at almost $500M is actually quite expensive & yes she'll be a great asset, but what would a CIWS add to the budget...and the price of a couple of mini-typhoons... really? RNZN should at least go for manually operated .5 cal HMG's as an alternative but sounds like even that won't happen. What a friggin joke! 'Fitted for but without' is a cop-out and unless they actually intend to actively move those weapons across at times to ensure SOPS are in place & crew familiarised then she'll never ever deploy them.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

How can the crew learn the equipment if they don't get to use it, ie, using it and learning firing arcs, maintenance and familiarisation and the like while they can learn some of it on the frigates... but some of the younger crew may come straight out of training. And also if you are not doing it all the time it is easy to forget and that is for the older crew.

The other question I have is adding an extra 6.5 tons of the CWIS Phalanx (plus 12 full 20ft containers) must effect the performance and weight distribution ... would have thought (to be honest) that they would want to know this during sea trials??? I suppose redistribution of the tanks would help etc... but still...?

 

[Gibbo]

How can the crew learn the equipment if they don't get to use it, ie, using it and learning firing arcs, maintenance and familiarisation and the like while they can learn some of it on the frigates... but some of the younger crew may come straight out of training. And also if you are not doing it all the time it is easy to forget and that is for the older crew.

The other question I have is adding an extra 6.5 tons of the CWIS Phalanx (plus 12 full 20ft containers) must effect the performance and weight distribution ... would have thought (to be honest) that they would want to know this during sea trials??? I suppose redistribution of the tanks would help etc... but still...?

So nothing to stop RNZN stumping up 4-6 .5 cal HMG's... but bet they don't! So could RNZN be guilty themselves of this head in the sand thinking?

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

So nothing to stop RNZN stumping up 4-6 .5 cal HMG's... but bet they don't! So could RNZN be guilty themselves of this head in the sand thinking?

What do have that many in stock?... lol

On this I believe it would be gubberment cuts... as I am pretty sure no sailor would say;

"oh it is fine to take away our ship defences... just make sure you put them back when we need them... even though that could be anywhere at any time at any port we visit around the world... you know it's fine..."

Yeah pretty that's what they are saying... lol

As for sea trials and weight thing I am going to say... ummmmmm dunno... lol

 

[Redlands18]

What do have that many in stock?... lol

On this I believe it would be gubberment cuts... as I am pretty sure no sailor would say;

"oh it is fine to take away our ship defences... just make sure you put them back when we need them... even though that could be anywhere at any time at any port we visit around the world... you know it's fine..."

Yeah pretty that's what they are saying... lol

As for sea trials and weight thing I am going to say... ummmmmm dunno... lol

If terrorists are game enough to attack a Burke Class DDG tied up alongside they would be rubbing there hands over an undefended AOR knowing full well it’s not carrying a weapon system that would kill a small boat

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

If terrorists are game enough to attack a Burke Class DDG tied up alongside they would be rubbing there hands over an undefended AOR knowing full well it’s not carrying a weapon system that would kill a small boat

How do I say "exactly" and make it longer than few words to keep within the rules...

However; Exactly...

 

[spoz]

Many modern ships have fibre backbones, at least, to their various networks although it’s mostly about bandwidth. However, it does somewhat ease the bundling problem; but has no real effect on the upper deck problem. Oldsig is exactly right in describing the actual problem; and as more emitters or receiving aerials are fitted, it gets more and more difficult.

 

[kiwipatriot69]

How do I say "exactly" and make it longer than few words to keep within the rules...

However; Exactly...

Did the old Manawanui have machine guns mounted at all times? Just wondering if they could be ported over. And yeah, its crazy to invest so much money in such an important vessel, and not protect its crew . These days an act of terror can happen anywhere, even in my safe city of Christchurch.

 

[Todjaeger]

Many modern ships have fibre backbones, at least, to their various networks although it’s mostly about bandwidth. However, it does somewhat ease the bundling problem; but has no real effect on the upper deck problem. Oldsig is exactly right in describing the actual problem; and as more emitters or receiving aerials are fitted, it gets more and more difficult.

I asked the question about fibre in part because I have seen where cabling to a PA system actually received EMI from a nearby HF antenna when it keyed up, the PA system would start broadcasting noise. It was rather awkward because the PA system was in a building which was a joint courthouse and EOC, and court was in session at the time... The only ways to prevent that from happening were to either stop using the HF radio, or rip out the PA system, including all the wiring in the walls, and replace it with another system which was better shielded. At this point we just moved the whole system to another building at a different site to provide a location for the EOC while a brand new facility is being designed and then will be built.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

Did the old Manawanui have machine guns mounted at all times? Just wondering if they could be ported over. And yeah, its crazy to invest so much money in such an important vessel, and not protect its crew . These days an act of terror can happen anywhere, even in my safe city of Christchurch.

I am not 100% sure... but I believe they ported... but I could be wrong... it wouldn't surprise me either way... lol

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

Article on the RNZN in the EDR (European Defence Review) magazine Jan/Feb 2020
Page 19 - 26

EDR N°49 - Jan/Feb 2020

 

[Gibbo]

Thanks Gibbo for the update. Greatly appreciated. Unfortunate that the process is so slow but it is to be expected. Once she gets away from the wharf she should prove her worth to the RNZN and the GOTD.

Potential indication Manawanui may be close... travelling over harbour this morning at 7am noticed she was now, for the first time I've seen, tied-up on the outer (city side) of the main outer (south) wharf... only seemingly ever seen operational vessels tied-up there! She was in the same place at 5.45pm when I headed home (it's quite challenging to look back over your shoulder toward DNB in heavy traffic when crossing the bridge southbound).

 

[shipJGR]

...My major concerns are the ship's speed (16 knots is pretty slow for a naval tanker)...

The Environship hull form should lead to better speed and/or reduced fuel consumption in a seaway. IOW, the real world average speed should be closer to the maximum speed than a conventional hull form, (partially?) mitigating the lower maximum speed. Lower ship motions in a seaway contribute to this advantage. Sorry, but it’s been decades since I worked in this general area and it took a while for me to remember this deeply buried information.

As a reference, please see the last bullet point in this article. Tsuji Heavy Starts Works on World’s First LNG-powered Cargo Vessel

 

[alexsa]

The Environship hull form should lead to better speed and/or reduced fuel consumption in a seaway. IOW, the real world average speed should be closer to the maximum speed than a conventional hull form, (partially?) mitigating the lower maximum speed. Lower ship motions in a seaway contribute to this advantage. Sorry, but it’s been decades since I worked in this general area and it took a while for me to remember this deeply buried information.

As a reference, please see the last bullet point in this article. Tsuji Heavy Starts Works on World’s First LNG-powered Cargo Vessel

For commerical ships contracts normally look at sustained speeds and 16 knots is pretty average and many vessels with low block coeffcients can sustain this with little trouble. Sustained speeds above 18 knots (into the 20 knot range) need optimised hull forms. Lowering the operating speed of vessel sometimes needs tweaks as well as was found when many box boats were operating at lower speeds to save fuel and improve their EEDI.

I suspect the hull form in this case is designed around efficiency for the purpose of the EEDI requried by Annex VI of MARPOL.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

The NZDF website states that Manawanui was do to return to the operational fleet in November of 2019. Does anyone have info on whether she did or is she still undergoing her upgrading with the military comms and other mil spec improvements?

Cleared for departure HMNZS Manawanui heads to sea for the first time since her commissioning in June last year, as part of her Sea Acceptance Readiness Checks. It all builds towards Operation Readiness for our Navy's newest fleet member. HMNZS Manawanui

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

The new ANZAC masts use lots of fibre but the EMI issues start when the electrons leave the antenna not generally in the cabling. It's interference between the various emitters and surrounding equipment (not all of it comms gear) that make emitter placement a bit of a bugbear.

oldsig (now 30 years out of practice and 10 years out of date)

From another webbysite I frequent

The issue is with the cabling. When the contract was first given to the Canadian yard a NZ company that had significant experience with the ANZACs approached them and offered them a software system that manages the cabling but the yard declined and was comfortable with their paper based system. Needless to say this NZ company has now been engaged to help sort the mess out.

So by the sounds of it they got the USB cables mixed up...

 

[Gibbo]

Cleared for departure HMNZS Manawanui heads to sea for the first time since her commissioning in June last year, as part of her Sea Acceptance Readiness Checks. It all builds towards Operation Readiness for our Navy's newest fleet member. HMNZS

Zooming in on the pic looks like weapons station on front outer edges of deck below bridge...assume this will be 1 x manually operated .5 cal HMG per side... as per Manawanui III. Wonder if that's a standard RHIB in the port davit... artist impressions last year suggested a cabin RHIB which would possibly act as a detached diver tender... or maybe the REA boats that we never hear talk of anymore (which I suspect might have been quietly 'scuttled'!?!)

 

[spoz]

For commerical ships contracts normally look at sustained speeds and 16 knots is pretty average and many vessels with low block coeffcients can sustain this with little trouble. Sustained speeds above 18 knots (into the 20 knot range) need optimised hull forms. Lowering the operating speed of vessel sometimes needs tweaks as well as was found when many box boats were operating at lower speeds to save fuel and improve their EEDI.

I suspect the hull form in this case is designed around efficiency for the purpose of the EEDI requried by Annex VI of MARPOL.

It may limit her, or it may not. Certainly, fast routing speed tends to be18 knots these days, so integration in an Aust or US TG might be problematic but that isn’t really something that Endeavour did much of. She was more of a station tanker and 16 knots is fine for that, and for the Antarctic role.

 

[ngatimozart]

From another webbysite I frequent
So by the sounds of it they got the USB cables mixed up...

I saw that there too and if correct, would not surprise me in the slightest.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

Sailors drug dealing at Devonport Naval Base uncovered by test cheating inquiry

Sailors drug dealing at Devonport Naval Base uncovered by test cheating inquiry

A young sailor was caught dealing drugs at Devonport Naval Base after test cheating accusations attracted Military Police attention.

Drug-related text chatter dug up in a cellphone search led to Ordinary Weapon Technician Cadell Heney and a comrade being hauled before the Court Martial of New Zealand.

Heney and Ordinary Electronic Technician Ryan Conrad Carroll on Monday afternoon pleaded guilty to all charges at the Court Martial, held at Devonport, Auckland.

Heney admitted 12 charges including supplying MDMA, procuring it, conspiring to supply the drug, and offering to supply the same drug.

He also admitted a charge of doing an act likely to prejudice service discipline by using his cellphone to record pages of a test paper "with intent to gain an advantage" before taking a test.

Junior Crown Prosecutor Lt Matthew Hague said in late 2018, Heney was taking a course at the base.

Hague told the Court Martial a petty officer at Devonport, on Auckland's North Shore, received a complaint about people copying test results.

Heney's phone was seized and searched, and Heney admitted he had taken video of the test.

"He acknowledged that this was the wrong thing to do," Hague told the Court Martial.

The phone was sent to Military Police, where a technician noticed text messages that indicated possible drug offending.

The Court Martial heard various intercepted texts on the phone included chatter such as "Can I just give you cash when I see you?" and "Do you have any pills?"

Hague said both sailors made multiple admissions after being confronted with the cellphone data.

Three of Heney's drug offences happened in Hawke's Bay, five at an Auckland location unspecified in charge sheets, and three at the naval base.

Heney admitted paying Carroll for MDMA capsules.

Some charges related to Heney supplying just one MDMA capsule.

Carroll, 23, entered guilty pleas to all five charges he faced on Monday.

He was accused of procuring MDMA and supplying MDMA capsules.

The two ratings' pleas were entered after they were marched in at about 3.15pm before Chief Judge Kevin Riordan.

Heney and Carroll have yet to be sentenced.

The Court Martial continues on Tuesday.

Oh bugger... !