Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[Sea Toby]

With only five Seasprites, I see three being operational. Usually the RNZN deploys one frigate, but for short periods of time two frigates, leaving one Seasprite available for the MRV. When only one frigate is deployed, or when the MRV does not need her Seasprite, one Seasprite would be available for use by one OPV. Much alike the frigates, most of the time only one OPV would be deployed. There are other helicoptes which can be used at any time for use with the OPVs, not being a warship per say, the OPVs are more of a patrol force assett, one or two LUHs maybe available.

While helicopters do provide significant multiple advantages to the OPVs, the OPVs are capable of patrolling without a helicopter. The US Coast Guard's smaller medim endurance cutters don't necessarily operate a helicopter although they have a flight deck. With my experience, while helicopters are great at scouting, illegal fishing vessels stop only when a patrol ships guns are pointed at them from a nearby position.

Remember the Australian frigates chase of an illegal fishing vessel off Heard Island? Australian Orions were always in contact with the fishing vessel, but it didn't stop until a frigate chased it down. Presence of a ship is vital in fishery protection duties, OPVs and IPVs can be and are effective without helicopters. Inshore, other land based aircraft and helicopters can work with the patrol ships as well as a ship based helicopter.

In summary, I do not see a shortage of Seasprites. There are other aircraft and helicopter assets of the air force. The new LUHs will be as effective as Seasprites for the OPVs intended operations.

 

[Tasman]

With only five Seasprites, I see three being operational. Usually the RNZN deploys one frigate, but for short periods of time two frigates, leaving one Seasprite available for the MRV. When only one frigate is deployed, or when the MRV does not need her Seasprite, one Seasprite would be available for use by one OPV. Much alike the frigates, most of the time only one OPV would be deployed. There are other helicoptes which can be used at any time for use with the OPVs, not being a warship per say, the OPVs are more of a patrol force assett, one or two LUHs maybe available.

While helicopters do provide significant multiple advantages to the OPVs, the OPVs are capable of patrolling without a helicopter. The US Coast Guard's smaller medim endurance cutters don't necessarily operate a helicopter although they have a flight deck. With my experience, while helicopters are great at scouting, illegal fishing vessels stop only when a patrol ships guns are pointed at them from a nearby position.

Remember the Australian frigates chase of an illegal fishing vessel off Heard Island? Australian Orions were always in contact with the fishing vessel, but it didn't stop until a frigate chased it down. Presence of a ship is vital in fishery protection duties, OPVs and IPVs can be and are effective without helicopters. Inshore, other land based aircraft and helicopters can work with the patrol ships as well as a ship based helicopter.

In summary, I do not see a shortage of Seasprites. There are other aircraft and helicopter assets of the air force. The new LUHs will be as effective as Seasprites for the OPVs intended operations.

This seems a sensible proposition and would be in line with the RAN who sometimes deploy Squirrel helos from their frigates, either alongside (in the FFGs) or instead of the Seahawk. I agree that for for fisheries protection and general patrol work the LUHs should be reasonably effective. It should be possible to arm them with a GPMG if necessary.

Cheers

 

[Nigel Lowe]

My understanding is that as well as the replenishment ship Success, the RAN ships involved were the guided missile frigates HMAS Adelaide and HMAS Darwin, the frigate HMAS Anzac, the fast catamaran HMAS Jervis Bay, the heavy sea lift transport HMAS Tobruck, and at least 5 patrol boats. I suspect RAN submarines would also have been covertly deployed. This being the case Canterbury would have had good back up from the RAN frigates if the situation had turned ugly.

http://wopared.parl.net/library/pubs/CIB/1999-2000/2000cib03.htm#6

It would be interesting to find out what other naval vessels made up the INTERFET task force.

The lessons learnt from the INTERFET mission and the more recent troubles in the Pacific demonstrate to me that there would be huge value in the RNZN and the RAN further standardising equipment and exercising together as often as possible.

Cheers

Hi - a new posting, I'm following this discussion with interest.

For more interesting background reading please see (I hope this link works!):

http://www.vuw.ac.nz/css/docs/Strategic_Briefing_Papers/Vol.2 Feb 2000/East Timor.pdf

Which can be found listed on the main listing page at http://www.vuw.ac.nz/css/pages/papers/strategic.aspx

Cheers

 

[Tasman]

Hi - a new posting, I'm following this discussion with interest.

For more interesting background reading please see (I hope this link works!):

http://www.vuw.ac.nz/css/docs/Strategic_Briefing_Papers/Vol.2 Feb 2000/East Timor.pdf

Which can be found listed on the main listing page at http://www.vuw.ac.nz/css/pages/papers/strategic.aspx

Cheers

Welcome and thanks for the link. Your first post certainly contained interesting info that I for one had not seen before.

Cheers

 

[Todjaeger]

Operation of Project Protector OPV/IPVs

Reading up on Australian Customs patrols and operations, I started to get some questions. Has the RNZN considered an operational scheme for the OPVs or IPVs similar to what Australian Customs does?

http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=5503

Since it seems that much of what the OPVs and IPVs will be doing is EEZ patrols, SAR and similar taskings, would a possible joint Navy-civilian crew work? I don't forsee an OPV engaging enemy shipping with a 25mm, so I don't think direct combat is likely. Or has NZ decided against such type operations for customs/fishery work?

-Cheers

 

[PeterH]

What I have seen they will normally be used in co-operation with civilian agencieis - the Ministry of Fisheries, Customs, Treasury, the Maritime Safety Authority, and Police. All these ships complement include 4 Governement agencies.

Cheers

 

[Gibbo]

Reading up on Australian Customs patrols and operations, I started to get some questions. Has the RNZN considered an operational scheme for the OPVs or IPVs similar to what Australian Customs does?

http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=5503

Since it seems that much of what the OPVs and IPVs will be doing is EEZ patrols, SAR and similar taskings, would a possible joint Navy-civilian crew work? I don't forsee an OPV engaging enemy shipping with a 25mm, so I don't think direct combat is likely. Or has NZ decided against such type operations for customs/fishery work?

-Cheers

Yes all 'Project Protector' fleet (1xMRV;2xOPV;4xIPV) are going to be used for EEZ patrol - on behalf of a number of Govt agencies. MRV obviously has further utility as an Army transport; disater relief etc - but none of these vessels has been designed for combat operations - NZ is desparately short of EEZ patrol capability so these vessels will be busy doing just that.

All vessels will carry personnel from other Govt agencies (Customs etc) but not for pure Naval taskings as the vessels are also likely to do (OPV is also designated for 'counter-terrorrism' work - but this hasn't been defined of quantified by anyone - and they are only lightly armed for this role).

Navy is rolling their volunteer reserve (civvys) into their operational fleet crews so these 2 organistations will be working alongside each other.

 

[Whiskyjack]

All vessels will carry personnel from other Govt agencies (Customs etc) but not for pure Naval taskings as the vessels are also likely to do (OPV is also designated for 'counter-terrorrism' work - but this hasn't been defined of quantified by anyone - and they are only lightly armed for this role).

Navy is rolling their volunteer reserve (civvys) into their operational fleet crews so these 2 organistations will be working alongside each other.

Counter-terrorism IMO will encompass surveillance, an ESM capability, and a strength in training and operating with the SAS/Police CT etc..

Also maybe something like a small UAV will be integrated as well.

While we tend to think as CT as A-stan type ops, the vast majority do not require Harpoon, ESSM, PGMs etc.. and are probably conducted day to day without us even learning about it!

 

[Aussie Digger]

Counter-terrorism IMO will encompass surveillance, an ESM capability, and a strength in training and operating with the SAS/Police CT etc..

Also maybe something like a small UAV will be integrated as well.

While we tend to think as CT as A-stan type ops, the vast majority do not require Harpoon, ESSM, PGMs etc.. and are probably conducted day to day without us even learning about it!

Yes they are and the military has virtually NOTHING to do with it...

 

[Whiskyjack]

Yes they are and the military has virtually NOTHING to do with it...

Agree, but then I think half the time the RNZN and the Project Protector ships will be a taxi service for various Govt Agencies!

 

[Lucasnz]

Agree, but then I think half the time the RNZN and the Project Protector ships will be a taxi service for various Govt Agencies!

And the Queen Bee, why else would the MRV have a VIP cabin (Wonder if you can book cruises):lol2

 

[Norm]

Project Protector Delivery dates

QUESTION FOR WRITTEN ANSWER
(Notice given 20 February 2007; reply due 28 February 2007)
00926 DR WAYNE MAPP to the MINISTER OF DEFENCE: What are the
expected dates that each of the Project Protector vessels will enter
service with the Royal New Zealand Navy
ANSWER
HON PHIL GOFF (Minister of Defence) replied: The current planned dates for
delivery of the Protector vessels and introduction into service with the Royal New
Zealand Navy are:
Multi Role Vessel May 2007
Offshore Patrol Vessel #1 November 2007
Offshore Patrol Vessel #2 May/June 2008
Inshore Patrol Vessels #1 September 2007
#2 December 2007
#3 March 2008
#4 June 2008
These dates are being constantly monitored and will be confirmed when all the
requisite information that impact on delivery is provided.

 

[Norm]

Ipv

Link to brochure

http://www.akermarine.com/ship_patrol.html

Click on red x after scrolling down the page then on next screen view brochure,PDF deck layouts best viewed at 300. No room for a big gun! lots of toilets ,2 dog kennels!Magazine looks a bit small, otherwise nice patrol vessel.

 

[Todjaeger]

Link to brochure

http://www.akermarine.com/ship_patrol.html

Click on red x after scrolling down the page then on next screen view brochure,PDF deck layouts best viewed at 300. No room for a big gun! lots of toilets ,2 dog kennels!Magazine looks a bit small, otherwise nice patrol vessel.

Thanks for the link Norm, little tough to read, but quite interesting. BTW does anyone know if the Project Protector vessels will have datalinks to communicate with other RNZN and allies vessels/aircraft? I know that OPV-type vessels typically have a much "lighter" electronics system than a warship of similar size, don't know if that also extends to comms/datalink systems as well.

-Cheers

 

[Lucasnz]

Thanks for the link Norm, little tough to read, but quite interesting. BTW does anyone know if the Project Protector vessels will have datalinks to communicate with other RNZN and allies vessels/aircraft? I know that OPV-type vessels typically have a much "lighter" electronics system than a warship of similar size, don't know if that also extends to comms/datalink systems as well.

-Cheers

Just had a look at the NZOPV presentation by Dan McGeer of Aker. It shows a layout of the electronics outfit (S & X Band, EOSS etc). Nothing there to indicate an Data link like LINK 11. Does show a secure radio and tactical communications outfit

PS Thanks for the Link Norm. Interesting some of the other designs that show internal layout (Irish Navy etc).

 

[Norm]

If you save the PDF of the Brochure (link is via the top left box with the red X ) on the first page then enlarge to 300, you'll find its easy to read.Save better if you enter the web site independant of the going direct from the Forum link,then again it could be just my PC!Cheers .Plan B link below might do the trick!

http://www.akermarine.com/pdf/PV85-br-web.pdf

 

[dave_kiwi]

Project Protector Update

Just seen on the RNZN's home page:

http://www.navy.mil.nz/default.htm

Interesting article on the "initial" (?) sea trials .. dated 22 JAN 07. Couple of interesting pictures. Not sure how long article will stay .. its the default article.

So, we must be getting closer to delivery .. end of May 07 ?

 

[RubiconNZ]

Yeah I noticed that is well, I hadn't checked the site in a while and I thought I was just slow, hopefully May it is

 

[Norm]

Just seen on the RNZN's home page:

http://www.navy.mil.nz/default.htm

Interesting article on the "initial" (?) sea trials .. dated 22 JAN 07. Couple of interesting pictures. Not sure how long article will stay .. its the default article.

So, we must be getting closer to delivery .. end of May 07 ?

Hopefully ,apparently during seatrials a few warranty issues emerged and She was sent to a dry dock in Malaysia for repairs.No room at the Inn in Australia and she cannot fit inside the drydock here in Devonport NZ.The step platforms inside the drydock preclude entry.Orginally the NZ Navy was hoping to have a new floating drydock but this was rejected by the good citizens as being an eyesoar! The problems are a hairline crack on the rudder and some hydraulic issues not sure if that's with the side or Stern ramp.

The OPV us looking good here is the link to the other PDF I think after this I've well and truelly satisfied my curiosity about the OPV's .
http://www.sname.org/sections/pacific_northwest/images/SNAME PNW - NZ OPV Presentation.pdf

 

[Tasman]

Hopefully ,apparently during seatrials a few warranty issues emerged and She was sent to a dry dock in Malaysia for repairs.No room at the Inn in Australia and she cannot fit inside the drydock here in Devonport NZ.The step platforms inside the drydock preclude entry.Orginally the NZ Navy was hoping to have a new floating drydock but this was rejected by the good citizens as being an eyesoar! The problems are a hairline crack on the rudder and some hydraulic issues not sure if that's with the side or Stern ramp.

The OPV us looking good here is the link to the other PDF I think after this I've well and truelly satisfied my curiosity about the OPV's .
http://www.sname.org/sections/pacific_northwest/images/SNAME PNW - NZ OPV Presentation.pdf

Thanks for the link Norm. I think this project is now looking very good and added to the Anzacs it will, IMO, put the RNZN in the best state it has been in for some time. The more I look at the OPVs the more I wish the RAN had some vessels of this type. I am feeling just a little envious!

Cheers