It is highly likely given the pressure in the SCS that a lot of fishing boats will move out to the wider pacific, from all nations in the SCS. The problems there will spread.
The pacific boats(SEA3036) will keenly find homes.
Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Padman
- Start date
The pacific boats(SEA3036) will keenly find homes.
Frigate Upgrade starting ?
"In 2017, Per Navy website :Te Mana will commence preparations for her Frigate Systems Upgrade (FSU). In May she will start her long journey to Esquimalt on the southern tip of Vancouver Island in British Columbia, Canada. The upgrade will be completed by Lockheed Martin Canada.' Whats cooking ? Budgets gone west , elections ? Buy new save the upgrade , Thoughts Team ?
Popping down to my local and I spotted Te Mana large as life at the base
"In 2017, Per Navy website :Te Mana will commence preparations for her Frigate Systems Upgrade (FSU). In May she will start her long journey to Esquimalt on the southern tip of Vancouver Island in British Columbia, Canada. The upgrade will be completed by Lockheed Martin Canada.' Whats cooking ? Budgets gone west , elections ? Buy new save the upgrade , Thoughts Team ?
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It was never due to start the FSU until this quarter but there was a delay.
What really could be an issue is that there is at present a geo-strategic deterioration that is happening at the worst time for the RNZN viz New Zealand.
Effectively one just Anzac for the next 3 years and no upgraded Anzac that can achieve an operational level of capability until 2021.
I do think it is well time a proper fright of stone cold dread proportions is felt by our political class over defence - it might not be too far off.
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
It's been suggested before but maybe a trip to the corner frigate store is needed.
2021 is a long way off and three years before RAN ANZACs are due to retire. So that's not an option.
Apparently HMS Lancaster may be available but none of her systems are similar to current RNZN weapons or subsystems.
Overall a very bad situation for the next three or four years. Definitely poor planning.
2021 is a long way off and three years before RAN ANZACs are due to retire. So that's not an option.
Apparently HMS Lancaster may be available but none of her systems are similar to current RNZN weapons or subsystems.
Overall a very bad situation for the next three or four years. Definitely poor planning.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Perhaps a Halifax frigate deployment should have been part of the upgrade package The RNZN likely has better replenishment capabilities for one of our frigates than the RCN at the moment.
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
From the MOD's Frigate Systems Upgrade page:
The first Frigate (Te Mana) upgrade commences Q3-2017 and will be completed approx. Q3-2018.
The second Frigate (Te Kaha) looks likely to commence it's upgrade Q3/Q4-2018 and will be completed approx. Q3/Q4-2019.
After harbour and sea acceptance trials (presumably a few months?), how long to reach FOC? If one year then for Te Mana that might be during late 2019 (and Te Kaha late 2020)?
Which is all close to 2021 as a project end date or should any of these stages take longer etc. So still think it would be a good idea to lease HMAS Darwin (FFG 04) when she becomes available (aren't her crew transitioning to the AWD's?), as an interim measure to ensure Te Mana's crew retains important skillsets (or should there be slippages with the FSU programme). No doubt the RAN would provide some training assistance minimising costs and negating risks etc.
Convincing Govt/Treasury though, who are more concerned with the bottom line and making do to save $$$, may be a challenge but that's up to the RNZN and isn't beyond them. With recent worldly events in our wider region this may provide their best ever opportunity. And from the pollies international relations point of view it gives them further "options". Win-win
Assuming no further delays or slippages it seems:
The first Frigate (Te Mana) upgrade commences Q3-2017 and will be completed approx. Q3-2018.
The second Frigate (Te Kaha) looks likely to commence it's upgrade Q3/Q4-2018 and will be completed approx. Q3/Q4-2019.
After harbour and sea acceptance trials (presumably a few months?), how long to reach FOC? If one year then for Te Mana that might be during late 2019 (and Te Kaha late 2020)?
Which is all close to 2021 as a project end date or should any of these stages take longer etc. So still think it would be a good idea to lease HMAS Darwin (FFG 04) when she becomes available (aren't her crew transitioning to the AWD's?), as an interim measure to ensure Te Mana's crew retains important skillsets (or should there be slippages with the FSU programme). No doubt the RAN would provide some training assistance minimising costs and negating risks etc.
Convincing Govt/Treasury though, who are more concerned with the bottom line and making do to save $$$, may be a challenge but that's up to the RNZN and isn't beyond them. With recent worldly events in our wider region this may provide their best ever opportunity. And from the pollies international relations point of view it gives them further "options". Win-win
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Based on the Halifax upgrade program, the NZ frigate program should proceed in a timely matter. Frigate upgrading is the one bright spot for the RCN and hopefully for the RNZN too.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
A major part of the problem is many defence items have high total costs, as well as long service lives. Therefore, barring a drastic change in situation, whatever gets selected, in whatever quantity is selected, that is basically it for a generation. Contributing to the issue is how long it can take to get kit into service.
As has been mentioned previously in this thread, if things goes smoothly, the RNZN will be down to a max of one frigate available for service from later this year until 2021, as the badly needed upgrade programme gets underway.
If there are any unexpected service demands, or issues with completing the upgrade, that could push the date back further.
IMO that should signal to the NZDF and gov't that it would be a good idea to start bringing forward plans for the replacement of the ANZAC-class frigate. Unfortunately that would also likely mean that the NZDF has multiple, major capital/capability replacement programmes running concurrently.
I would also hope that the NZDF starts, now or in the very near future, plans to increase both the size of the future frigate force, and proper planning to ensure adequate numbers of the needed range of skills to crew the frigates and other RNZN vessels.
IIRC one of the issues which was looming after the contracts for the Project Protector fleet were signed, but before delivery, was that the RNZN was likely to struggle to provide enough crews for the then extant vessels as well as the incoming ones.
Muar River
Member
RAN ANZACs will undergo further upgrades at Henderson WA. Perth has been docked for preparatory work but Arunta will be the first to undergo the full programme. Each ship will be under refit for a year.
First RAN Anzac-class frigate begins mid-life capability assurance programme | Jane's 360
Darwin will retire but there has been talk of Melbourne and Newcastle (younger ships and Aust built) been sold to Poland?
If the international situation deteriorated so as to require a further hull for the RNZN a short term loan of an Australian Anzac would be a better proposition than FFG04 Darwin.
The RAN could continue operating her while the crisis existed and the manpower requirement met by the reduced Anzac requirement.
An Anzac is far more compatable despite the ASMD upgrades, at least the ship is familiar.
Quite an elegant solution.
Would provide the RNZN a period of transition and numbers growth in the interim until 2024/25 when we could either move on to a new frigate class earlier or pick up the first of the upgraded RAN Anzacs to tide us over until post 2032.
Though it takes 5-6 years to train a 3rd/4th Anzac Crew to warfighting level and if we had to up tempo and truncate that - we would have to aggressively recruit from abroad in some specialist branches.
But if that is what it takes.
Brotherly love Mr C, especially as our Deputy Prime Minister happens to have Kiwi citizenship, apparently
Barnaby Joyce confirmed here as well - so our citizenship laws are just as mad as yours.Brotherly love Mr C, especially as our Deputy Prime Minister happens to have Kiwi citizenship, apparently
In the medium term it does make sense to RNZN to build up capacity through the uptake of the first upgraded RAN Anzacs when they decommission from 2024/25 as the third and fourth hulls. It allows time to build up the crews in the meantime.
It would mean that 7-10 years earlier we would have those 3rd and 4th Frigates back which would not happen otherwise until the mid 2030's.
It really is very poor force planning and risk management to have no Tanker, no LW vessel, just one Frigate and still be short an OPV over the next 4 years.
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
Is there any rumblings regarding an interim purchase or lease of an offshore supply type to provide a littoral capability? There was some discussion of this a while back. With the glut of these types of vessels on the market a lot of learning could be accomplished on newer systems and maintain the capacity of the littoral warfare group. If I remember correctly wasn't there a request from NZDF for such information.
There were/are discussions / proposals earlier in the year surrounding a potential lease of an interim vessel - though the littoral operations group working with an OPV is the most likely short term solution.
Agreed - I would suggest potentially that the arrangement might turn out to temporary (but permanent solution in NZ terms). It is interesting to note that the replacement for diving tender is not mentioned in the latest major projects report, but then neither is NewShip Aotearoa. Given the tenders and negotiations that would have been in progress in 2016 I guess its no a surprise.
The Project Projector Remediation in Volume 2 of the Major Reports. Despite the plans to withdraw the IPV they continue to receive upgrades in equipment. The OPV and Canterbury have had a integrated radar system with air capability installed and the Landing Craft have had work done to them (so it now appears they may not be replaced).
All up not bad for the navy capabilities overall, but darn it all its the long term I'm interested in - guess we'll have to wait until the election.
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this has been posted here before - this Janes article discusses the Project Protector remedial work and the NZDF's amphibious skillsets being developed courtesy of HMNZS Canterbury and various HADR operations in recent years plus Exercises Talisman Sabre and Southern Katipo with coalition partners. Sea-basing from HMNZS Canterbury has been proven to be successful - looks like the vessel is proving to be invaluable learning asset for what it is.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
The August batch of service publications are out, and Navy Today gives a more detailed timeline for tanker replacement than I have seen to date.
http://navy.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/navy-today/nt213.pdf
July 2016
Government approves purchase of $493m tanker
April 2017
Tanker gets its name, HMNZS AOTEAROA
June 2017
Preliminary design review in Korea
July 2017
Ship’s badge competition begins
December 2017
HMNZS ENDEAVOUR decommissioned
February 2018
Ship’s badge winner announced
May 2018
Work begins on HMNZS AOTEAROA
April 2019
HMNZS AOTEAROA launches
July 2019
Sea trials
October 2019
HMNZS AOTEAROA sails for New Zealand
December 2019
Crew training
January 2020
New wharf extension at Devonport completed
January 2020
Ship arrives in New Zealand
February 2020
Begin commissioning
April 2020
Operational testing
http://navy.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/navy-today/nt213.pdf
July 2016
Government approves purchase of $493m tanker
April 2017
Tanker gets its name, HMNZS AOTEAROA
June 2017
Preliminary design review in Korea
July 2017
Ship’s badge competition begins
December 2017
HMNZS ENDEAVOUR decommissioned
February 2018
Ship’s badge winner announced
May 2018
Work begins on HMNZS AOTEAROA
April 2019
HMNZS AOTEAROA launches
July 2019
Sea trials
October 2019
HMNZS AOTEAROA sails for New Zealand
December 2019
Crew training
January 2020
New wharf extension at Devonport completed
January 2020
Ship arrives in New Zealand
February 2020
Begin commissioning
April 2020
Operational testing
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Novascotiaboy
Active Member
What is the likelihood that the RNZN will acquire NSM or LRASM as a long range protective deterrent for shipborne threats against NZ from the Mk 41 VLS? Is the Seaceptor SAM being launched from seperate cannisters or from the Mk 41?
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
AFAIK the Mk 41 VLS is being taken out of the RNZN ANZAC-class FFH's and a smaller box launcher with canisters is being installed to reduce topweight.
As for the NZDF getting any sort of standoff AShM,,, Hopefully when the P-8A Poseidons are brought into service, as well as the frigate programme which replaces the current FFH's...