Haha those indonesians really got into the spirit of the occasion, definately won best dressed and espirit de corp in my books.
Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Padman
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Good on them too. I wonder if any of the NZG, MOD procurement bods & RNZN hierarchy had really good look over the KRI Banda Aceh and the RSS Endurance whilst they were here.
Totally agree, the my only downer on their performance was that I was not there in person to see all of it. Loved what I saw.
You would hope so, good time to glean ideas and future possibilities and never too early to start the planning process (especially with the time it takes us to make Ds). Hopefully at least some reciprocal brainstorming.
Yes dose'nt happen often and gutted I missed out as well, even the entry into Wellington. Times like this I miss being in as I would have thoroughly loved working in Kaikoura as well for a multitude of reasons.
A write-up on Stuff about HMNZS Wellingtons new meteorological systems (fortuitously installed in the last week of October) now being used off Kaikoura - it has some interesting titbits:
Defence Force helps predict weather in Kaikoura after MetService station knocked out | Stuff.co.nz
Currently deployed? Anyone know what they are using?
Defence Force helps predict weather in Kaikoura after MetService station knocked out | Stuff.co.nz
I think that the Army have a system that they use. It's a small system man launched. Reg or Dave would know more.
There used to be the Kahu which was discontinued a while ago, and some supplied by a related company (Hawkeye?) used up to a few years ago but there hasn't been much open source info on what if anything is currently in use.
There is a video online from September of the US Army operating the Puma UAV out of Waiouru on an exercise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQta7UU6kKs , so perhaps that's a possibility?
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
HHI Launched "Soyang" First 10,000 Tons AOE-II class Fast Combat Support Ship for ROK Navy
Navy Recognition covers the launch of Korea's new replenishment tanker. Given it is being built by HHI, I had long suspected NZ would get a variant of this design. Not for the first time, I was completely wrong.
It is a much more traditional-looking design than the Rolls-Royce model NZ opted for. Interestingly, it is much longer (190m vs. about 165m), the same beam, but with a much faster sprint speed (24 knots). It presumably lacks the ice strengthening, but can still only carry 11,000 tonnes. The new Endeavour will (by adding up the diesel, avgas, water and container space), be able to carry about 9-10,000 tonnes, which doesn't quite make sense given the size disparity.
The AOE II does have a Phalanx on the bow, so they at least have that in common! Although NZ will probably have a space allocated for a Phalanx, rather than an actual installed system.
More pics of the AOE II on the Warships1 forum.
http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/33962/ROKN-AOEII-Launched#.WER5cn15LiQ
Navy Recognition covers the launch of Korea's new replenishment tanker. Given it is being built by HHI, I had long suspected NZ would get a variant of this design. Not for the first time, I was completely wrong.
It is a much more traditional-looking design than the Rolls-Royce model NZ opted for. Interestingly, it is much longer (190m vs. about 165m), the same beam, but with a much faster sprint speed (24 knots). It presumably lacks the ice strengthening, but can still only carry 11,000 tonnes. The new Endeavour will (by adding up the diesel, avgas, water and container space), be able to carry about 9-10,000 tonnes, which doesn't quite make sense given the size disparity.
The AOE II does have a Phalanx on the bow, so they at least have that in common! Although NZ will probably have a space allocated for a Phalanx, rather than an actual installed system.
More pics of the AOE II on the Warships1 forum.
http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/33962/ROKN-AOEII-Launched#.WER5cn15LiQ
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An interesting video interview on the Iver Huitfeld class design.
Very interesting. We should get HHI to build 3 of them and 2 Flexible Support Ships and acquire (poaching is such a nasty word) the skills of that Captain as the project supervisor. They have thought this design through from an engineering point of view very carefully. I would like to know a bit more about the damage control side, but all the same this could be a solution to NZ's needs, an a viable alternative to the T26 or a new MEKO design.
It is interesting and I am sure that HHI would be quite accommodating. I don't see the requirement for the 2 Absalon class ships, but 3 Ivers yes if we were to go down that path. However I would like 2 changes to the design; 56 Mk-41 VLS cells with 16 of those cells being strike length and two hangars like the Absalon instead of one. If HHI agreed to build them the same way that the Odense Steel Shipyard did - using commercial shipbuilding practices, then it could work out to be a reasonably cost effective build. Odense Maritime Technology (OMT) are the design owners. What the build and integration costs be compared to my other favoured design, the KDX-IIA c/w AEGIS remains to be seen. The KDX-IIA is a HHI design and build.
A couple of issues that come out of this:
1. The reuse of systems (guns and stanflex modules) is a major part of the saving. These modules are not available to NZ or any other user as there are a finite number so these would need to be built and this is not an insignificant cost.
2. There is a degree of "fitted for but not with" as systems are rotated .... not a great option.
3. The ships were built at Odense before it closed. This was a techically capable yard (which still does design work) and it is not the same as going to HIH and asking them to build a vessel they have not built before.
4. Integration was done in house....... this is not included in the cost of the hull and equipment (much in the same way the weapons were not included). This is not a small cost as evident by newer systems as they become more capable and complex.
5. Machinery and equipment fitted to those ships will not meet current international minimums ..... and future ones with SOX if you want to go that way.
6. Cost per unit can be misleading. AWD costs include support structures ..... is that the case for these units. The information to answer this is not to hand so taking a .... hell that was cheap .... approach may be misleading
Don't get me wrong ..... it was a great achievement but it needs to be taken in context and the cost per unit in a devolved structure may be challenging ...... particularly in systems integration
That has been noted from the beginning and the current NZG intention is to pull through systems from the current two ANZACs. That would be the guns, new sensors etc., and decoys. However a third frigate is suggested and that would have to be completely fitted out with new gear. My preference would be for new gear in all three ships.
Agree in the context of frigates.
HHI do build container ships as well as naval warships, so the concept would not be to alien to them and their overall build costs would be cheaper than those Odense Steel Shipyards had.
Agreed
OMT state that the ships are able to support machinery changes such as from CODAD or CODAG depending upon what the customer specifies.
All very valid points and if the RNZN went down the Ivers path we would most definitely not get them for the cost the Danes did, however they are a modular design so the customer does get to pick and choose. They are just another option that is worth looking at and they have the advantage over the KDX-IIA in that if we wanted a third frigate sooner rather than later we could have one in the water much quicker. Like I said in my original post it has to be a cost and benefit comparison against the KDX-IIA.
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Novascotiaboy
Active Member
Reported today that Korea is purchasing two additional frigates of the Incheon class. At the price they are buying them they are very cheap in comparison to other comparable vessels.
South Korea awards contract for two more FFX II frigates | Naval Today
South Korea awards contract for two more FFX II frigates | Naval Today
But, as always, what is included in the price. Is it just the hulls and equipment or is it the vessels as well as the support systems and sustainment........ before we compare you need the basis of the the costing so it can be apples with apples
Absolutely Alexsa. Looking at some of the Korean language sites over the last few months this is just for the hull and machinery viz fitted for but not with. All the good stuff will be added as separate contracts within industry. The Batch II's are now officially the Daegu Class and are around Anzac size at 122m and 3600 tonne full load.
The recently launched FFX-II lead ship Daegu came in at around 500 million won (US 450m) give or take a few Kimchi meals or about double what the fairly small and basic Batch I vessels were. That said they are still very good value at a capability per price point due to the sheer economics of economies of scale the RoK industry can offer. The Batch II's are a step up in size and capability from the Batch I Incheon's no doubt, but I think where interest maybe peaked for the RNZN downstream is the FFX Batch III next decade which will likely be 4500+ tonners.
It would be interesting to compare the project costs to those of the ANZAC frigate project as they do seem roughly comparable in size and capability. The final ANZAC, HMAS Perth was, I believe, delivered for less than A$100m back in 2006, I wonder what that be in todays values, I wouldn't be surprised if there is not much difference.
The $100m seems very low as the two RNZN ships where in excess of $1.3B for both and they were less well equipped than the RAN ships and even the Phalanx's came off the Leander's. They were 1990,s ships and inflation was still significant at that time. Possibly a zero missing? I am only guessing.