Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[CJohn]

Concerning the MRV Canterbury, she sailed from Rotterdam on 21 aug. for final fit out at Tenix in Melbourne. She is transporting hull section modules on her flight deck.These modules must be for the OPV's being built at this facility.

check out the great photos here. http://www.portpictures.nl/
cheers.

 

[KH-12]

Great photos, thanks for posting , the flight deck does look quite big in these photos, the superstructure also, there is not alot of room forward of the main superstructure and the bow, a bigger gun than the 25mm might have looked abit cramped in there.

 

[Sea Toby]

Thanks for linking the pictures of Canterbury leaving Rotterdam. Its great to see her LCMs loaded. There are many hull modules for the second OPV on her flight deck, it shouldn't take Tenix at Williamstown much time to weld them together. Since most, if not all, of the second OPVs modules have been built, both OPVs should be delivered by the end of next year.

 

[CJohn]

The Project certainly seems to be running on time and within estimates.
Bringing Merwede Shipyard on board looks to have paid off . No major problems have appeared in sea trials and Canterbury ran smoothly up to 19.6 kts.
At Merwede she was dubbed the 'swan' for her somewhat aesthetic lines, I would have to agree.
The flight deck looks quite handy in size and will find many useful appliations as we are seeing at present. Some smaller detail of Canterbury and her LCM's can be viewed from here. http://members.chello.nl/d.jansen24/Tenix.htm

Cheers

 

[stryker NZ]

those picture have got to be some of the best ive seen of the MRV. How long did it take you to find them ive been looking for desent photos for god knows how long.

oh and by the way does anyone have any idea how the construction of the other ships is going

 

[Lucasnz]

those picture have got to be some of the best ive seen of the MRV. How long did it take you to find them ive been looking for desent photos for god knows how long.

oh and by the way does anyone have any idea how the construction of the other ships is going

I have to agree!! Some of the best detail yet of the ship and LCM. The Hangar is bigger than what I thought.

I haven't heard anything for a while - anyone live near the Tenix yard.

 

[stryker NZ]

yeah ive seen lots of pictures of the OPV components being moved around the place but nothing that resembles a constructed ship. i mean if they can get a ship the size of the MRV built in such a short time the OPV should be at least on its way by now.

 

[CJohn]

those picture have got to be some of the best ive seen of the MRV. How long did it take you to find them ive been looking for desent photos for god knows how long.

oh and by the way does anyone have any idea how the construction of the other ships is going

I must say, it was't easy at first. But thanks to a contact with a shipspotting enthusiast out of the Netherlands that all changed for the better. There are a few other shots of Canterbury in this forums Gallery under NZ Navy if you were not aware.

cheers.

 

[stryker NZ]

alot of people in this thread have been saying how they are worried about how the protector ships do not have a sufficient self-defence capability, i was just curious how much it would cost to intergrate something like the Phalanx or Sea Ram to these ships

 

[Sea Toby]

Not much. However, I don't see why patrol vessels need a CIWS system especially in the South Pacific, the closest nation is some 1,000 miles away. I doubt whether New Zealand would ever deploy the MRV or OPVs outside the South Pacific without an escort. Plus the 25mm Bushmaster gun and the small arms carried do have some anti-air capability.

 

[Whiskyjack]

Not much. However, I don't see why patrol vessels need a CIWS system especially in the South Pacific, the closest nation is some 1,000 miles away. I doubt whether New Zealand would ever deploy the MRV or OPVs outside the South Pacific without an escort. Plus the 25mm Bushmaster gun and the small arms carried do have some anti-air capability.

I tend to agree, I can see the MRV being deployed on semi-regular basis because of what it is. But OPVs and IPVs are really police/customs resources to maintain economic/legal control of NZ territory. The OPVs will also have a limited role in the Pacific. There is really no threat to them that they will not be able to counter with existing equipment IMO.

 

[stryker NZ]

oh i totally agree i dont think that the OPV need much more weaponry (bar a few more 50cals to cover the rear) but i do think the MRV could do with a CIWS. What i thought was the RNZN could buy 3 Sea Rams for the ANZACS and the MRV and maybe put the old Phalanxs on to the OPVs i mean theres no reason to waste them their still in working condition and it would improve the capabilities of the new ships. On the other hand to save money i suppose the navy could just buy 2 Sea Rams for the ANZACS and install both left over Phalanxs on the MRV im not sure where they would be put just a suggestion what do you guys think.

 

[Gibbo]

oh i totally agree i dont think that the OPV need much more weaponry (bar a few more 50cals to cover the rear) but i do think the MRV could do with a CIWS. What i thought was the RNZN could buy 3 Sea Rams for the ANZACS and the MRV and maybe put the old Phalanxs on to the OPVs i mean theres no reason to waste them their still in working condition and it would improve the capabilities of the new ships. On the other hand to save money i suppose the navy could just buy 2 Sea Rams for the ANZACS and install both left over Phalanxs on the MRV im not sure where they would be put just a suggestion what do you guys think.

Yep would like to see .5 cal HMG on rear of OPV's - although they'll always be small-arms embarked which can cover the stern from small-boat attack etc. My #1 ideal would be to have those same .5 cal HMG's in a mini-typhoon mount - quite do-able as the RNZN already has the gun, just needs to splash out on the mount & supporting systems - provides a far more effective weapon. Would like to see same on IPV's & rest of RNZN fleet!

And yes MRV would have a CIWS or similar in a perfect world but I guess we've got to be realistic - the MRV won't see one in the forseeable future. Perhaps not until the need is proven - by the vessel taking a 'hit' - loss of life etc etc. Hopefully it won't ever come to that!!!

CIWS on MRV wouldn't be difficult if electrical systems on board are up to it - but there'd have to be some re-arranging of the multitude of aerials on the upper superstructure. It should have been built 'fitted for but not with' - but that's just toooooo sensible for politicians to grasp I guess!

Anyway - regardless of it's possible shoftfalls in some areas - I like the vessel! She's going to prove a very valuable asset & you can guarantee many years from now when she's due to be replaced it'll be impossible to argue against replacement....the MRV concept is here to stay in the RNZN!

Actually it's interesting to reflect that the concept of a troop transport for the NZ Army can be traced right back to the Falklands war in '82. A defence review within NZ not long after identified a need to be able to move troops & their equipment overseas distance, as aprt of a larger taskforce.

Well it took till '95 to get the HMNZS 'Chuck-up em' (Charles Upham) which was a sobering learning curve for the NZDF - now after 25 years we're getting something ideal for the job - I bet we'll see the wait has been worth it!

 

[Sea Toby]

While the Canterbury isn't a LPD, she is much better than the other alternative of a leased merchant ship which may or may not have roll-on roll-off capabilities, heavy cranes, landing craft, helicopter facilities, medical facilities, and/or berthing spaces. Less than a year ago Ireland shipped one of its company's equipment to Liberia via a leased merchant vessel many on these forums would call a rust bucket, with only one of the above, heavy cranes, as she was a lift-on, lift-off ship.

The Canterbury is new, clean, and very able to accomplish its three missions superbly: patrol, training, and sealift. She has enough armament to fulfill her sealift role for peacekeeping and humanitarian missions. Her armament can be increased easily if an opposed landing is required in the future, a misson I do not forsee presently.

 

[stryker NZ]

i know im surprised that ship they leased could still float i mean i would of thought the Irish could afford something that at least looked good. The Canterbury is by far a better option than having to lease a ship.

 

[Sea Toby]

Yes, the Irish are presently looking at buying an MRV too. Their navy has suggeted the MEKO 200 MRV, its army is currently setting requirements for a MRV. The MEKO 200 MRV has only 200 lane meters of vehicle space and carries 150 soldiers, the Dutch Absalon has 300 lane meters and carries 200 soldiers, and the New Zealand MRV has 403 lane meters and carries 250 soldiers. The Irish navy and army brass did tour the New Zealand MRV in the Netherlands. Their army and navy appreciated very much the large Dutch Rotterdam, they borrowed her to transport their troops and equipment to their operational area of Liberia. I'm sure the ADI small Rotterdam design will be researched in their acquisition process too.

Of the Irish navy's 8 OPVs, 3 need to be replaced soon and another 3 in ten years. The Irish are currently facing in the next few months returning their equipment from Liberia, or sending another replacement company out, and facing the prospect of sending another company to Lebanon. For a neutral nation, unalligned with NATO, they are facing an abundance of UN peacekeeping missions along with the rest of the world. Their Prime Minister is very interested in acquiring an MRV soon, but he wishes to acquire only one MRV ship. If they are going to acquire a MRV, it should move at least one company, not half of one. The New Zealand MRV costs about 20-25 million more Euros than the MEKO 200 MRV. Ireland may soon have a military sister of Canterbury?

Ireland has a history of acquiring cheap vessels for offshore patrol. Their Rosins cost around 30 million Euros, the New Zealand MRV would cost around 90 million Euros. If Ireland buys an MRV, being more expensive it may cut their patrol force down one ship.

And its not just Ireland. Other smaller European nations without amphibious ships are researching whether to acquire a MRV or LPD too. Similar to the rest of the world, their navies are not shining as much recently as their army's peacekeeping forces. If their navies wish to acquire new ships, it appears acquiring a blue-green sealift vessel is required.

 

[TerryD]

Meko 200 plus Roisin class vs. just NZtype MRV?

Sea Toby, I agree with your analysis re Irish Government's history in buying cheaper OPV's. I also agree that they soon will order an MRV type vessel.

I guess the question is who will win the debate between the Naval Service and the Army on the type of MRV required. The budget is always the primary concern for the Irish Defence Department.

The issue to be debated is will there be more "bang for the buck" (or Euro) if Ireland buys a Meko 200 MRV and a Roisin (or a package deal with the Meko 200 MRV and the Meko 100 OPV) versus one NZ type MRV.

Ireland used the LE Niamh (a Roisin class OPV) to move some equipment (not much) to Liberia. It has used OPV's in that role in the past.

I wonder if Ireland will see more utility in buying two ships (and the Meko 200 can double as an effective patrol ship when not in the MRV equipment hauling mode) than just one.

 

[CJohn]

Yes, the Irish are presently looking at buying an MRV too. Their navy has suggeted the MEKO 200 MRV, its army is currently setting requirements for a MRV. The MEKO 200 MRV has only 200 lane meters of vehicle space and carries 150 soldiers, the Dutch Absalon has 300 lane meters and carries 200 soldiers, and the New Zealand MRV has 403 lane meters and carries 250 soldiers. The Irish navy and army brass did tour the New Zealand MRV in the Netherlands. Their army and navy appreciated very much the large Dutch Rotterdam, they borrowed her to transport their troops and equipment to their operational area of Liberia. I'm sure the ADI small Rotterdam design will be researched in their acquisition process too.

I would hope the Irish Naval Service has not sold themselves short by suggesting the MEKO 200, this MRV is but a shadow compared to the smaller Rotterdam designs or the NZ MRV. I am sure the tour of MRV Canterbury and the the borrowing of Hr Ms Rotterdam would open the Irish military's minds to the possibilities that vessels like these can provide.
It will be very interesting to see which way the Irish Government jumps.

 

[Norm]

yeah ive seen lots of pictures of the OPV components being moved around the place but nothing that resembles a constructed ship. i mean if they can get a ship the size of the MRV built in such a short time the OPV should be at least on its way by now.

Only one I can find is back in April, Scoop.co.nz which had a piture of the Ist OPV (Otago) being assembled in the Tenix slipway.

www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0604/500028.htm

The NZ Navy site http:www.navy.mil.nz protector MRV update reports that the Canturbury left for Melbourne on the 21/8 carrying 6 OPV hull modules for the 2nd OPV (Wellington).Cheers

 

[swerve]

... the Dutch Absalon has 300 lane meters and carries 200 soldiers, ...

Danish!