Because the GATS fleet is civilian not military vehicles. The differentiation is purely on cost grounds.
Royal New Zealand Air Force
- Thread starter Lucasnz
- Start date
Best truck for the Job I guess and to be fair this is a rather specialised vehicle we are talking about. Someone probably asked the exact same question when they bought scanias rather than the recently purchased mercedes truck fleet back in the day as well.
True but the MAN HX military vehicles are based on the MAN TG series of commercial vehicles. the oily bits are the same.
It also comes down to what the company tenders and what their package is, if they build their product onto a specific platform then changing it to another platform to suit can actually cause issues with intergration as not all suit certain applications. Fire engines, ambos and the HETs are vehicles that spring to mind.
A stuff article on the the NH-90 simulator that has been operational for six weeks now - It must make it easier not having to send pilots overseas given the current border closures.
There is a video that includes scenes of the Beehive and of flying through the Manawatu Gorge (though without the slip that has permanently closed that road) and over the city of Palmerston North which are both near Ohakea.
www.stuff.co.nz
There is a video that includes scenes of the Beehive and of flying through the Manawatu Gorge (though without the slip that has permanently closed that road) and over the city of Palmerston North which are both near Ohakea.
Stuff
www.stuff.co.nz
Quite an oppourtune investment now considering the current climate I would say!A stuff article on the the NH-90 simulator that has been operational for six weeks now - It must make it easier not having to send pilots overseas given the current border closures.
There is a video that includes scenes of the Beehive and of flying through the Manawatu Gorge (though without the slip that has permanently closed that road) and over the city of Palmerston North which are both near Ohakea.
Stuff
Just read an article in our local paper stating that work has just begun on the new hangars for the P8A aircraft and the attached video from the papers web sight gives an impressive artistic rendition of them.
Work starts on new home for Poseidon aircraft at Ōhakea base | Stuff.co.nz
Another article regarding a contract with Boeing to provide full training equipment for our P8A's
Boeing awarded multi-million dollar NZ Air Force training contract
Work starts on new home for Poseidon aircraft at Ōhakea base | Stuff.co.nz
Another article regarding a contract with Boeing to provide full training equipment for our P8A's
Boeing awarded multi-million dollar NZ Air Force training contract
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Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
I wonder is just a pilot's simulator or do they have a full mock up for the crew as well...???
In answer to your question:
Boeing’s holistic P-8 training system will enable the RNZAF to conduct up to 70 percent of all Poseidon-related training in a simulated environment. As part of the contract, Boeing will provide:
- Operational Flight Trainer (OFT) – Full-motion simulator incorporates all P-8 unique displays and switches.
- Weapons Tactics Trainer – Simulates mission systems and tactical operations, and when coupled with the OFT, forms a Weapons Systems Trainer that enables multi-crew, high-fidelity mission rehearsal training in the same simulated environment.
- Virtual Maintenance Trainer – Enables training of maintenance professionals to properly perform maintenance tasks and procedures on the P-8A aircraft
- Scenario Generation Station – Creates custom scenarios for mission training
- Brief/Debrief Station – Provides post-mission analysis and playback.
Boeing Awarded U.S. Navy Contract for New Zealand P-8 Training - Seapower
OHAKEA, New Zealand — The U.S. Navy recently awarded Boeing a Foreign Military Sales (FMS) contract, valued at $109 million, to provide P-8A Poseidon training for the Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF), the company said in a Dec. 14...
seapowermagazine.org
Wow 70% is a pretty phenomenal chunk of the training syllabus...just shows the sense in a small force with small fleets like NZDF in adopting simulators. Apparently SH2G is also a full-motion, full-mission simulator including weapons sim & the full gambit. The RNZAF should enjoy good P8A availability for operational taskings for a few years. Just hope MinDef deliver something in the EMAC project that does in reality free the P8A up from some of those civvy based tasks.In answer to your question:
Boeing’s holistic P-8 training system will enable the RNZAF to conduct up to 70 percent of all Poseidon-related training in a simulated environment. As part of the contract, Boeing will provide:
- Operational Flight Trainer (OFT) – Full-motion simulator incorporates all P-8 unique displays and switches.
- Weapons Tactics Trainer – Simulates mission systems and tactical operations, and when coupled with the OFT, forms a Weapons Systems Trainer that enables multi-crew, high-fidelity mission rehearsal training in the same simulated environment.
- Virtual Maintenance Trainer – Enables training of maintenance professionals to properly perform maintenance tasks and procedures on the P-8A aircraft
- Scenario Generation Station – Creates custom scenarios for mission training
- Brief/Debrief Station – Provides post-mission analysis and playback.
Boeing Awarded U.S. Navy Contract for New Zealand P-8 Training - Seapower
OHAKEA, New Zealand — The U.S. Navy recently awarded Boeing a Foreign Military Sales (FMS) contract, valued at $109 million, to provide P-8A Poseidon training for the Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF), the company said in a Dec. 14...
From what I remember, the then Minister of Defence said that they were being acquired in all respects without any modifications. I do know that they are acquiring the Mk-54 light weight torpedo for them, but that funding comes out of the NZDF operational budget. Nothing has been openly stated about a anti ship missile acquisition yet. The Green Party had / has no real influence in any Defence acquisitions because it doesn't have the numbers in Cabinet or Parliament to afford it any leverage.
Thank you for the reply. Going back to pages 353 in this forum topic there was a great discussion on the P8 aquisition and wether it would be armed. Since the start of this discussion at no point has anyone confirmed that they will be armed. I have researched the internet and I can't find a reliable source. Therefore my conclusion is the only arms onboard will be side arms
A forum contributer did mention the Greens back then. The Greens were in coalition with the government then. I'm not a Kiwi so I don't know how much weight that carries in defence decisions then. I am trying to keep my emails a political. When I mention Greens politics I am refering to the left side not the party. That where my point was coming from. BTW I'm a conservative and proud of it
A forum contributer did mention the Greens back then. The Greens were in coalition with the government then. I'm not a Kiwi so I don't know how much weight that carries in defence decisions then. I am trying to keep my emails a political. When I mention Greens politics I am refering to the left side not the party. That where my point was coming from. BTW I'm a conservative and proud of it
FYI the NZ Green Party is quite left wing, so it's not like other nations Green parties who concentrate upon the environment. Originally it was a true environmental party but was then hijacked by left wing activists.
NZ has a MMP (Mixed Member Proportional) electoral system, since 1996, modeled on the German system, but the two main political parties have rigged it so that it works to their advantage - well most of the time. They still treat the system as a FPP (First Past the Post) system which it isn't. The Cabinet has far too much power and very few checks and balances. We are an unicameral Parliament with no Upper House. We used to have one, but a very cunning Prime Minister, just after WW2 managed to talk the Upper House into voting itself out of existence. Both Baldrick and his master, would have been highly impressed with that cunning plan.
My opinion is that the left has been taken over by extreme elements world wide. Others would say the same could be said for the right. That wasn't my direction I heading in this military forum.
Given the RNAF is buying a P8 simulator with a weapons tactic trainer. I thought it was timely to asked the good people of this forum is it armed. It would be good to see some sort of NZ defence platform armed with some useful offensive weapon. I would love our Kiwi cousins to be pulling their weight in some capacity
Given the RNAF is buying a P8 simulator with a weapons tactic trainer. I thought it was timely to asked the good people of this forum is it armed. It would be good to see some sort of NZ defence platform armed with some useful offensive weapon. I would love our Kiwi cousins to be pulling their weight in some capacity
We generally avoid politics like the plague on here. It tends to make us Moderators real twitchy and irritable. What I have given you is just background info.
My prior post answering your earlier question about the arming of the P-8A is what has been announced so far. The P-3K2 Orions are armed with Mk-46 LWT, depth charges, and Mk-82 bombs. The Mk-54 LWT is replacing the Mk-46 LWT, and am unsure how much service life the RNZAF depth charge stock has left.
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
My guess "Fitted for but not with" is the most likely option with the missile capability. But I would say yes to the torpedoes and bombs. I mean the P-3K2 can already do this, and that is what their primary role is Sub Hunters people tend to forget that (well not on this forum but you know what I mean)... as is the P-8A. As the the out going DEF Minister said, "They may never get used in anger, but the Government need to have that option."
The DCP-2019 also said that the current torpedo's on the ANZAC's will be upgraded in the near future... and I assume it also means the ones the RNZAF have as well considering they are basically the same torpedo the MK-46...
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DouglasLees
Member
Many of your predictions have, I’m afraid, been ‘fast-forwarded’ both by the pandemic and the emergence of a type of populism that (like fascist ideologies) combines elements of ‘right’ and ‘left’, i.e. it is socially reactionary and ultra-nationalist while having a culture of economic grievance reminiscent of the ‘left’. You have been relatively immune to this in NZ but we are certainly experiencing it in the UK. Ironically this form of populist nationalism is not backed up by a constructive emphasis on ‘defence of the realm’ but by continuing cuts and general trashing of military traditions and structures. This is partly because populist politicians build their careers on hatred of ‘experts’ and are (capital-R) Radical into ‘smashing things up’ rather than (small-c) conservative and interested in improving where necessary on what has stood the test of time.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Replying here to a post made in the Australian Army thread, because the content and response is really about the RNZAF and RNZAF helicopters.
I would expect somewhere, maybe even in the bowels of Treasury, there are analysts who could (and might already have) run the numbers on the current and projected costs for the existing RNZAF NH90 fleet as it is currently constituted through to the planned end of service life. I would also expect that those same analysts could also come up with costing projections on getting the NH90 fleet increased in size to the point where the assets are not being over-used, and then the projected costs through until the end of service life for the expanded fleet. I would also like to see an analysis which looks at the costs to retire and replace the NH90 with another lift helicopter like the UH-60 Black Hawk in sufficient numbers to meet realistic NZDF lift and fleet size requirements, and then develop projections on what the costs would be for a new lift fleet until the projected retirement date for the NH90.
My interest in having someone make such projections stems from an ANAO report on the NH90 from 2014, and the as-yet unknown data on the Kiwi NH90 experience. If the Kiwi experience is different, with RNZAF NH90's not having such high maintenance and costs to operate, then I would want Australia to look at what the NZDF is doing different with their NH90's to see if replicating that experience would be possible. OTOH if NZ is having a similar sort of experience just potentially less well known, then it might be worthwhile to see what changes could be made to drive those maintenance and operating costs down, i.e. if expanding the fleet by a few units could achieve a certain economy of scale, etc.
My personal suspicion is that not much in the way of problems having been heard about the Kiwi NH90's has more to do with it being essentially the only game in town for NZDF helicopter lift, with Defence and the RNZAF essentially making the best of it.
A case might (yes, emphasis on might) be able to be made that scrapping the NH90 and switching to current UH-60 Black Hawks would be more VfM.
I would expect somewhere, maybe even in the bowels of Treasury, there are analysts who could (and might already have) run the numbers on the current and projected costs for the existing RNZAF NH90 fleet as it is currently constituted through to the planned end of service life. I would also expect that those same analysts could also come up with costing projections on getting the NH90 fleet increased in size to the point where the assets are not being over-used, and then the projected costs through until the end of service life for the expanded fleet. I would also like to see an analysis which looks at the costs to retire and replace the NH90 with another lift helicopter like the UH-60 Black Hawk in sufficient numbers to meet realistic NZDF lift and fleet size requirements, and then develop projections on what the costs would be for a new lift fleet until the projected retirement date for the NH90.
My interest in having someone make such projections stems from an ANAO report on the NH90 from 2014, and the as-yet unknown data on the Kiwi NH90 experience. If the Kiwi experience is different, with RNZAF NH90's not having such high maintenance and costs to operate, then I would want Australia to look at what the NZDF is doing different with their NH90's to see if replicating that experience would be possible. OTOH if NZ is having a similar sort of experience just potentially less well known, then it might be worthwhile to see what changes could be made to drive those maintenance and operating costs down, i.e. if expanding the fleet by a few units could achieve a certain economy of scale, etc.
My personal suspicion is that not much in the way of problems having been heard about the Kiwi NH90's has more to do with it being essentially the only game in town for NZDF helicopter lift, with Defence and the RNZAF essentially making the best of it.
I know that the RNZAF didn't rush into bringing the NH90 into service like the Aussies appear to have attempted. The RNZAF stood up a dedicated Helicopter Induction Unit that worked with Airbus in France and at Ohakea. They used the crawl, walk, run system and it appears to have worked for them. Also they are active in the NH90 users group.