Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN) update

[contedicavour]

Developing on the deterrent factor, I would think an SSK like the Scorpene is a potent force-multiplier. Here I thinking of the lone Pakistani submarine that managed to keep the IN at bay in the 1971 (?) war. I don't have the full details so I wouldn't be at all surprised if I were wrong on this. Anyone?

A submarine's stealth also gives it the ability to project power by mining enemy harbours, support raid & recce missions as well as launch land attack weapons. Here, I would be very interested to see if there will be further developments to the SM-39 along the lines of the MM40 Block III in terms of capability.

Its force-multiplier and power projection characteristics make the submarine an ideal weapon-system to carry out the Deterrence and Forward Defence doctrines under Malaysia's National Defence Policy.

AFAIK SM-39 won't be updated since priority is given to a submarine launched version of MBDA Scalp Naval cruise missile.
Still it's quite an asset with its range of 50km.

cheers

 

[renjer]

AFAIK SM-39 won't be updated since priority is given to a submarine launched version of MBDA Scalp Naval cruise missile.
Still it's quite an asset with its range of 50km.

cheers

Yes, it is. Still, it would be good to have some sort land attack capability built into the Scorpenes. Thanks.

 

[Subangite]

Malaysian Government is going to place an order for batch 2 of the PV project with the Naval Dockyard sometime maybe end of 2007 or early 2008. the order is up to six ships.

those ex-Dutch submarines are no more there. they have been scrapped.

This is a cut a paste from the brunei corvette thread.

Anyways great news dreamwarrior73! So batch 2 will be a further 6 ships, if its true!! Whats your source?

Will the total order of 20+ ships still be as planned? Or will it be downscaled because of cost blow outs in part of PSC mismanagement?


So I guess, 2 more Lekiu class ships will be added to the fleet,
Apart from further Kedah class OPV's, which further weapons systems could easily added on.

The surface fleet numbers are increasing.

 

[dreamwarrior73]

This is a cut a paste from the brunei corvette thread.

Anyways great news dreamwarrior73! So batch 2 will be a further 6 ships, if its true!! Whats your source?

Will the total order of 20+ ships still be as planned? Or will it be downscaled because of cost blow outs in part of PSC mismanagement?


So I guess, 2 more Lekiu class ships will be added to the fleet,
Apart from further Kedah class OPV's, which further weapons systems could easily added on.

The surface fleet numbers are increasing.

1. i'm sorry i can't reveal my source.

2. as far as TLDM is concerned they wanted the whole lot of 27 PVs/corvettes.

3. each batch will incorporate what is called "batch improvement" which means that each later batch will be better than the previous batch in terms of platform and onboard systems.

4. as far as cost blow out is concerned. previous management is not only the culprit. you should also consider the fact that the price was derived in 1993(? please correct me if i'm wrong) when PSCND submitted their bid. when was the contract signed? now it is mid 2006. annual inflation did play a part in the cost blow out. so is the recession in 1997 which further exaggerate the cost inflation.

5. a fellow forummer mentioned that the LEKIU batch 2 will also include an option for anither 2. so it is 2 + 2 (optional) LEKIU batch 2. how does that sounds? it sure as hell sounds like music to my ears.

 

[contedicavour]

1. i'm sorry i can't reveal my source.

2. as far as TLDM is concerned they wanted the whole lot of 27 PVs/corvettes.

3. each batch will incorporate what is called "batch improvement" which means that each later batch will be better than the previous batch in terms of platform and onboard systems.

4. as far as cost blow out is concerned. previous management is not only the culprit. you should also consider the fact that the price was derived in 1993(? please correct me if i'm wrong) when PSCND submitted their bid. when was the contract signed? now it is mid 2006. annual inflation did play a part in the cost blow out. so is the recession in 1997 which further exaggerate the cost inflation.

5. a fellow forummer mentioned that the LEKIU batch 2 will also include an option for anither 2. so it is 2 + 2 (optional) LEKIU batch 2. how does that sounds? it sure as hell sounds like music to my ears.

Do you have information on weapons upgrades in the later batches of Meko100 and Lekius ? I'm curious to know, especially regarding AAW. For the moment mekos do not have any and Lekiu Batch 1 have short range VLS Seawolf. Incorporating Aster 15s or ESSMs would make a significant difference.

cheers

 

[nash0109]

For Contedicavour
KEDAH CLASS MEKO A-100 PATROL CORVETTE
The Kedah Class MEKO A-100 patrol vessel being built for Malaysia has a displacement of 1,650t. The propulsion system is based on two Caterpillar 3616 (5,450kW) diesel engines each driving two controllable pitch propellers. CAE of Canada is to provide the Integrated Platform Management System (IPMS) that will monitor and control propulsion, electrical and auxiliary systems.

The corvettes have one helicopter spot for a helicopter such as AgustaWestland Super Lynx 300 or Sikorsky S-70B Seahawk. Initially, the vessels will be armed with an Oto Melara 76/62 Rapid medium range gun and an Oto Melara/Mauser 30mm short-range gun, but provision is made for the later addition of one RAM (Rolling Airframe Missile) RIM-116A launcher for air defence and two launchers for the MM40 Exocet anti-ship missile. The vessel's combat management system will be the Atlas Elektronik COSYS-110M1 with a TMEO electro-optic fire director from Oerlikon Contraves.

The main surveillance radar will be the TRS-3D/16 ES three-dimensional radar from EADS Deutschland. The vessels will also be equipped with MDS 3060 obstacle avoidance sonar and ALEX chaff/decoy launching system. Other systems have yet to be decided.

Got this from the naval-technology website. Don't know whether its still relevant.
I'm a newbie and have been following this discussion with interest.
Seems to me all you guys are so knowledgeable and I sure did learn alot here.
Thanks

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Deleted

 

[qwerty223]

6x Kedah Class NGPV
1 76mm super rapide, 1 30mm AAA, helo deck
note: this vessel is based on the meko 100 vessel. I think it's wastefull to arm it as a OPV, better to arm as a corvette. just add ASM, sonar, torpedo and SAMs

Statements about the Meko RMN are wrong. At least the 1st 2 which were recieved earlier were to expect to arm with ASM and SAMs. It's meant to be protential in growing to have a solo to multiple combat ability in the future.

 

[contedicavour]

For Contedicavour
KEDAH CLASS MEKO A-100 PATROL CORVETTE
The Kedah Class MEKO A-100 patrol vessel being built for Malaysia has a displacement of 1,650t. The propulsion system is based on two Caterpillar 3616 (5,450kW) diesel engines each driving two controllable pitch propellers. CAE of Canada is to provide the Integrated Platform Management System (IPMS) that will monitor and control propulsion, electrical and auxiliary systems.

The corvettes have one helicopter spot for a helicopter such as AgustaWestland Super Lynx 300 or Sikorsky S-70B Seahawk. Initially, the vessels will be armed with an Oto Melara 76/62 Rapid medium range gun and an Oto Melara/Mauser 30mm short-range gun, but provision is made for the later addition of one RAM (Rolling Airframe Missile) RIM-116A launcher for air defence and two launchers for the MM40 Exocet anti-ship missile. The vessel's combat management system will be the Atlas Elektronik COSYS-110M1 with a TMEO electro-optic fire director from Oerlikon Contraves.

The main surveillance radar will be the TRS-3D/16 ES three-dimensional radar from EADS Deutschland. The vessels will also be equipped with MDS 3060 obstacle avoidance sonar and ALEX chaff/decoy launching system. Other systems have yet to be decided.

Got this from the naval-technology website. Don't know whether its still relevant.
I'm a newbie and have been following this discussion with interest.
Seems to me all you guys are so knowledgeable and I sure did learn alot here.
Thanks

These plans are probably still relevant and valid, but somehow lower priority than the Scorpene SSK acquisition, and potentially even lower priority than the acquisition of new frigates evolved from the Lekius.
With RAM and Exocets the Meko100 would be good anti-shipping corvettes with significant short range air defence potential.

cheers

 

[renjer]

Malaysian Government is going to place an order for batch 2 of the PV project with the Naval Dockyard sometime maybe end of 2007 or early 2008. the order is up to six ships.

So, even the GOM thinks that building our own capital ships is a better idea. And in spite of the fact that these will not be operational for more than 3 years. I wonder why?

There is no batch 2 yet as of today. Pure rumour/speculation at this time. Just like the "definite" F18E/F upgrade.

Good spot.

If the GOM intends to acquire incrementally improved batches of Meko 100s out of Lumut then Malaysia should look at the possibility of constructing submarines out of Labuan. Now this will really be a boost to the country’s technological base!

The Lekiu Batch 2s are being offered at GBP600m for 2. Scorpenes are being constructed in India at USD3b for 6. A stretch but not entirely out of reach.

 

[renjer]

These plans are probably still relevant and valid, but somehow lower priority than the Scorpene SSK acquisition, and potentially even lower priority than the acquisition of new frigates evolved from the Lekius.
With RAM and Exocets the Meko100 would be good anti-shipping corvettes with significant short range air defence potential.

cheers

Exactly.

Also, we have to bear in mind that the choice of engines for the first batch of 6 means that these will probably be better suited as OPVs anyway. Subsequent batches could be roled differently and equipped as such.

Ciao.

 

[Ding]

Statements about the Meko RMN are wrong. At least the 1st 2 which were recieved earlier were to expect to arm with ASM and SAMs. It's meant to be protential in growing to have a solo to multiple combat ability in the future.

I think not. The vessel were built with Fitted For But Not With concept ie in the future upgrading the class with SAM, ASM etc etc can be done easily as the supporting infrasturcture are already there YET the vessel is delivered as an OPV, will start operation as an OPV and will be armed as an OPV. hence the specs above are correct as of the moment. Future upgrades may be introduced.... hopefully

 

[qwerty223]

I think not. The vessel were built with Fitted For But Not With concept ie in the future upgrading the class with SAM, ASM etc etc can be done easily as the supporting infrasturcture are already there YET the vessel is delivered as an OPV, will start operation as an OPV and will be armed as an OPV. hence the specs above are correct as of the moment. Future upgrades may be introduced.... hopefully

Although malaysia declare it as an OPV but never heard that it will remain as it is currently. What was publish said to be delivered so that RMN can test sail and training crews for the rest of the coming meko? Are you sure it was meant to be an OPV? The capacity it had and the cost it took seems to be a big waste if it was originaly to be an OPV.

 

[Ding]

Although malaysia declare it as an OPV but never heard that it will remain as it is currently. What was publish said to be delivered so that RMN can test sail and training crews for the rest of the coming meko? Are you sure it was meant to be an OPV? The capacity it had and the cost it took seems to be a big waste if it was originaly to be an OPV.

The Meko RMN vessel is an NGPV program. As of the moment it will function as an OPV with an option to upgrade in the future.

As you said it's a big waste, I agree although there are few forumers (subangite and renjer and weasel i think, sorry if mistaken) that make a compelling argument saying that it's not a waste. It's up to you to see it their way, or your own way and debate the merits on this thread. As for me, I'll rather it to be a corvette

 

[contedicavour]

Range and speed of the MEKOs vs Lekiu and Laksamana

One thing is sure : the MEKOs have the best range in the Malaysian Navy, over 6000 nautical miles at 12kn, more than Lekiu and 2.5 times the Laksamana corvettes. Good for OPV role.

Speed is also strangely limited... 22kn !! That's acceptable for OPVs, not for corvettes or frigates. The Lekius have 28kn and the Laksamanas 36kn.

Last but not least, the SAMs that might eventually be installed are actually RAMs (one installed behind the 76/62SR gun). That's a CIWS weapon, not comparable to the Aspides on the Laksamanas (9.6km at Mach2 for RAM vs 13km at Mach 2.5 for Aspide), although better than VLS Sea Wolf.

So overall I'm starting to think that the potential of these Meko100 as FFG has been overestimated as of the start. Even if missiles are installed, these would still not be full blown FFGs.

cheers

 

[qwerty223]

The Meko RMN vessel is an NGPV program.

hrmm... this is weird.
regarding the statement above, I had doubt about it. From what I read, news which was publish after the ceremony when PSC recieves the 2 MEKO. It states that due to the cut queue dicision of purchasing MEKOs, the NGPV program was force to being further postpone

As for me, I'll rather it to be a corvette

agreed

Speed is also strangely limited... 22kn !! That's acceptable for OPVs, not for corvettes or frigates. The Lekius have 28kn and the Laksamanas 36kn.

hmm... although I had to reserve to agree but neither to deline. I dont know much about marine power plant. But many forumers agreed that the engine were strong enough and in logicaly speaking, 22kn is rather too lousy to be a part of German's "Next Gen Corvette"

 

[contedicavour]

hrmm... this is weird.
regarding the statement above, I had doubt about it. From what I read, news which was publish after the ceremony when PSC recieves the 2 MEKO. It states that due to the cut queue dicision of purchasing MEKOs, the NGPV program was force to being further postpone

agreed

hmm... although I had to reserve to agree but neither to deline. I dont know much about marine power plant. But many forumers agreed that the engine were strong enough and in logicaly speaking, 22kn is rather too lousy to be a part of German's "Next Gen Corvette"

Well the Meko100 design can allow for several different installations and power levels. The RMN have 2 CAterpillar diesels for a total of 14000 HP.
The Germans on their new K130 corvettes (similar size to Meko100) use 2 diesels for 19,850 HP. Hence 26 Knots.
The 2 Polish Meko100 (building as we speak) can run on 30kn because they have 1 gas turbine on top of the 2 diesels.
Just to give you one last perspective, the South African Meko 200 FFGs have 27,000 HP from gas turbine and 16,000 HP from 2 MTU diesels. We're talking 43,000 HP total for a ship aprox 20% larger than your Meko 100s.

To summarize, 14,000 HP is really a feable power plant for a FFG, while it is pretty much standard for OPVs.

cheers

 

[nash0109]

Well the Meko100 design can allow for several different installations and power levels. The RMN have 2 CAterpillar diesels for a total of 14000 HP.
The Germans on their new K130 corvettes (similar size to Meko100) use 2 diesels for 19,850 HP. Hence 26 Knots.
The 2 Polish Meko100 (building as we speak) can run on 30kn because they have 1 gas turbine on top of the 2 diesels.
Just to give you one last perspective, the South African Meko 200 FFGs have 27,000 HP from gas turbine and 16,000 HP from 2 MTU diesels. We're talking 43,000 HP total for a ship aprox 20% larger than your Meko 100s.

To summarize, 14,000 HP is really a feable power plant for a FFG, while it is pretty much standard for OPVs.

cheers

A long time ago I read an article in the Asian Defence Journal regarding the NGPVs. This was before the contract was awarded. The RMN actually specified a top speed of 22 kts. It was to be built to commercial stds like an OPV but heavily armed. That was when the term NGPV - New Generation Patrol Vessel was coined. It is not a true FFG but neither is it an OPV, sort of an in-between.
My 2 cents worth - the on-board helo is the true worth of the vessel.

Cheers

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Deleted

 

[qwerty223]

Well the Meko100 design can allow for several different installations and power levels. The RMN have 2 CAterpillar diesels for ...

Learned much, thanks!

A long time ago I read an article in the Asian Defence Journal regarding the NGPVs. This was before the contract was awarded. The RMN actually specified a top speed of 22 kts. It was to be built to commercial stds like an OPV but heavily armed. That was when the term NGPV - New Generation Patrol Vessel was coined. It is not a true FFG but neither is it an OPV, sort of an in-between.
My 2 cents worth - the on-board helo is the true worth of the vessel.

Cheers

Are you guys sure that it is a part of NGPV? What I read was totaly oppose which said that due to purchase of MEKO, NCPV was furthur delay