Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN) update

[OPSSG]

In Sense the Makasar design can be made to include much more automation (something that TNI AL reject due they do not have much manning problem), different set of electronics and weapons modules, more powerfull machineries, different set modulles for higher NBC standard...thus if you do that you will have a NATO standard LPD...

If I'm not mistaken Singapore offered a bit water down versions of their LPD to Thailand, in the area of less automation modules (since like TNI AL Thailnad also do not have significant problem on manning).

LOL, please do not call it watered down. Rather, it's custom engineered to Thai navy requirements. Says the same thing but sounds nicer, right?

BTW, in other news below:

'KD Tunku Abdul Rahman' moored as more problems crop up

Wednesday, July 7th, 2010 12:35:00

PETALING JAYA: KD Tunku Abdul Rahman remains at the Teluk Sepanggar naval base in Sabah as problems have again resulted in the submarine being docked. The Malay Mail was informed by defence industry sources that the unspecified problems were detected after the submarine completed its tropical water trials last month. A routine maintenance check later revealed the problems.

Since then, the submarine has remained at the naval base unfixed. It is learnt although the vessel obtained its Initial Operational Capability (IOC), it may take longer to be declared fully operational. However, the arrival of the second Perdana Menteri-class submarine, KD Tun Razak, on July 2, was a godsend for the crew of its sister ship, KD Tunku Abdul Rahman. The crew is expected to take over the second submarine during its mandatory tropical water trial.

Sources said this was necessary as the KD Tunku Abdul Rahman crew may lose their submariners rating if they remained on land. In February, The Paper That Cares reported that KD Tunku Abdul Rahman suffered a technical defect that prevented it from diving for three months. The submarine started tropical water trials on Feb 20. KD Tunku Abdul Rahman was commissioned early last year after undergoing a two-year trial period in France.

The Royal Malaysian Navy procured the two submarines for RM3.4 billion in 2002 from French/Spanish shipbuilders, DCNS and Navantia.

Looks like there may be some construction issues and that in general operating submarines is evidently quite maintenance intensive.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

As much as the problems appear, I would stick my neck out to state that its not as bad as what the Indians are facing on their scorpene project. They bought their scorpenes 3 years later but will face longer than 4 years later to receive their subs.

It could have been another OPV project. Cost-overrun, scheduled delayed, mission compromised with the acceptance of sub-standard equipment and yet nothing gets delivered.

This is what the PAC in India commented earlier this year:

news.outlookindia.com | DefMin Slammed for Delay, Cost Overruns of Scorpenes

"Expressing concern over the Ministry accepting an "unproven" design of Scorpene, the report said "deviations in respect to prescribed parameters such as stability, speed, endurance, noise levels, manoeuvring performances of the submarine cannot be ruled out" and asked the Ministry to compel Thales to take corrective steps....

Moreover, the tube-launched missiles for the submarines from US and Russia were not compatible with either the HDW submarines or the Scorpene submarines that the Navy would have in its fleet and only the French firm's was suitable, it had said."

 

[ocean_sea_river]

Pro and Contra

Deleted as ordered.

 

[STURM]

Would you like to provide further clarification on the points you raised in a manner and format more easily understood by everyone? There is also already a dedicated thread on the RMN. I'm assuming you are refering to the submarines....

aa. Expenses for service and maintenance high as the operators lack of experiences
-liable to human errors-suicide mission..

Developing a submarine force takes years and years of training, plus adequate funding, and does not happen overnight. Not quite sure what you meant by 'suicide mission'...

aa. Expenses for service and maintenance high as the operators lack of experiences.

'Service and maintenance ' for ALL submarines in general,and not just for the Scorpene, tend to be costly.

cc. Easily to detect from top-by glider only or battery operated remote aircraft device equiped
with vid cam as the unit approaching shallow waters.

All submarines in very shallow waters are visible fom the air. In the Malaysian context that would include large parts of the Straits of Melaka.

bb. Nothing to be proud of as the units good as described by sellers but not serve the
purpose maintaining the security / safety of Malaysian coastlines against the smugling
activities/illegal immigrant from
neighbours/patrolling Malacca Straits/Singapore Strait/South China Sea against pirate
activities/ tarnish sea pollution issues -for display or sample only.

'Maintaining the security / safety of Malaysian coastlines against the smugling activities/illegal immigrant '' are best performed by surface and air units of the RMN and the MMEA and not by SSKs. The primary puropose of SSKs are not for the reasons you mentioned.

dd. Need to think wisely before buy. Or ask experts.

What makes you think the RMN didn't consult the 'experts' or think 'wisely' before buying? What would you propose? Plans for submarines were first made in the late 70's and over the years the RMN has done a number of feasibility studies on operating a fleet of SSKs and has sent men to numerous countries for training. The very notion that the SSKs are only good for display at the LIMA exhibition is completely false and misleading.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

off the top of my head, recent updates for the RMN should include

NGV Tech to build 2 training cum PVs
Still looking at building the MPSS (nka MRSS) locally but may be as many as 3. Discussed since at least 2007...
LOI for the 2nd batch of (6 more) OPVs with Boustead.

 

[STURM]

off the top of my head, recent updates for the RMN should include

NGV Tech to build 2 training cum PVs
Still looking at building the MPSS (nka MRSS) locally but may be as many as 3. Discussed since at least 2007...
LOI for the 2nd batch of (6 more) OPVs with Boustead.

Plans for a new LST was made a priority several years before the loss of the KD Inderapura. Whilst it is certain that a contract for a follow on batch of NGOPVs, now called the littoral ships' will be signed in the next Malaysia Plan, it remains to be seen if there is sufficient funding for the new MPSS , especially given that funding is also required for a squadron of MRCA's. The problem is that due to cuts over the years there is now a long shopping list. Apart from funding issues, with the priority being given to development projects, a lack of political will has been a major factor.

With Boustead soon to be awarded a contract for OPVs, it is likely that the green light will be given in the near future for at least 6 more helicopters. Sometime back, the RMN Chief had said that the RMN was looking for at least 6 ASW configured helis and that the most logical choice would be more Super Lynx's.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Plans for a new LST was made a priority several years before the loss of the KD Inderapura. Whilst it is certain that a contract for a follow on batch of NGOPVs, now called the littoral ships' will be signed in the next Malaysia Plan, it remains to be seen if there is sufficient funding for the new MPSS , especially given that funding is also required for a squadron of MRCA's. The problem is that due to cuts over the years there is now a long shopping list. Apart from funding issues, with the priority being given to development projects, a lack of political will has been a major factor.

With Boustead soon to be awarded a contract for OPVs, it is likely that the green light will be given in the near future for at least 6 more helicopters. Sometime back, the RMN Chief had said that the RMN was looking for at least 6 ASW configured helis and that the most logical choice would be more Super Lynx's.

The list is growing every year. Can't miss the massive RM$8b deal with deftech for the 257 APCs but that's army rather than RMN.

Add in AEWs, SPH, nuri upgrade etc, it'd be interesting to see what actually gets selected. It does seem local production appears to be the growing preference.

 

[STURM]

The list is growing every year. Can't miss the massive RM$8b deal with deftech for the 257 APCs but that's army rather than RMN.

Add in AEWs, SPH, nuri upgrade etc, it'd be interesting to see what actually gets selected. It does seem local production appears to be the growing preference.

Pure speculation on my part but apart from the deal for 6 OPVs I think a deal that will be signed under the 11th Malaysian plan will be the squadron of MRCA's. It's debatable but I'm convinced that UAVS, to monitor Malaysia's borders and sea lanes, are more urgently needed rather than MRCA's. Very much doubt if an AEW deal will happen anytime soon unless SAAB is succesful in offering a Gripen/Eriye package which appears to be increasingly unlikely. The Defence Minister said a few months ago that the Nuri and C-130 upgrade would be funded under the 11th Malaysia Plan, hopefully this happens. It will be interesting to see if the RMN manages in the near future to obtain funding to arm with missiles the 6 Kedah class.

Other items on the long delayed shopping list include a replacement for the 50 odd
tri-service operated Starburst MANPADS, a medium range SAM, UAVs and additional M-4s to fully replace the AUG. The RMAF has also indicated it needs more PC-7 basic trainers.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Pure speculation on my part but apart from the deal for 6 OPVs I think a deal that will be signed under the 11th Malaysian plan will be the squadron of MRCA's. It's debatable but I'm convinced that UAVS, to monitor Malaysia's borders and sea lanes, are more urgently needed rather than MRCA's. Very much doubt if an AEW deal will happen anytime soon unless SAAB is succesful in offering a Gripen/Eriye package which appears to be increasingly unlikely. The Defence Minister said a few months ago that the Nuri and C-130 upgrade would be funded under the 11th Malaysia Plan, hopefully this happens. It will be interesting to see if the RMN manages in the near future to obtain funding to arm with missiles the 6 Kedah class.

Other items on the long delayed shopping list include a replacement for the 50 odd
tri-service operated Starburst MANPADS, a medium range SAM, UAVs and additional M-4s to fully replace the AUG. The RMAF has also indicated it needs more PC-7 basic trainers.

A lot of the programmes may not cost a lot but add them up, its still substantial. C-130 avionics upgrade = US$9-10 mil per plane not counting airod profit mark-up. The S-61T upgrades are ~US$15 mil per helo before middleman mark-up. PC-7s are cheaper at ~US$5m per a/c.

The Aludras should be in production so that does contribute. I think the MMEA wants a dedicated UAV design for its own purposes. The problem again is that UAV high cost is often due to sensor rather than the UAV. The Aludra which carries a single camerca only has a 15km range but is fairly cheap at under US$500k each before middleman mark-up + maintenance. Interesting to note UAV operators (where UAV exceeds 20kg) need PPL license in Malaysia. I think there's also the shorter ranged fulmars. The anticipated numbers don't appear to be many eg 6 according to zaid. The bigger the aicraft eg eagle, the higher the cost eg US$1+m each.

 

[ocean_sea_river]

Deleted as requested.

 

[SASWanabe]

mate, first of all you should read the Rules

especially

9. Do not put more than 8 smilies/emoticons in your posts. If you do, your posts will be edited.

so far, alot of what you have said in this thread has made no sense to me especialy your last post, which seemed to have nothing to do with the navy.

could you try to repost your point in a way thats more easily understandable please?

 

[STURM]

ocean-sea-river......

I think you've missed a plot here. In case you didn't notice or it slipped your mind, this is a defence forum to share and discuss defence related topics/issues. This is not a venue to discuss Malaysian politics, for which many if not all here are not interested in. Spare us your long monolouges.

 

[STURM]

A lot of the programmes may not cost a lot but add them up, its still substantial. C-130 avionics upgrade = US$9-10 mil per plane not counting airod profit mark-up. The S-61T upgrades are ~US$15 mil per helo before middleman mark-up.

Yes it will add up to quite a bit and take a big slice off the budget. There are15 C-130s [the youngest in the fleet are 5 that were delivered in 1995] and about 26 surviving Nuris.

The Aludras should be in production so that does contribute. I think the MMEA wants a dedicated UAV design for its own purposes. The problem again is that UAV high cost is often due to sensor rather than the UAV. The Aludra which carries a single camerca only has a 15km range but is fairly cheap at under US$500k each before middleman mark-up + maintenance.

To develop anything with a longer sensor range than the Aludra and something with more endurance, someone is going to have to pump in a tonne of a lot more cash than was allocated for the Aludra and will need a foreign partner for the technology. Another less painful and perhaps cheaper alternative would be to just buy an existing design off the shelf.

 

[STURM]

AA AA AA

Thank you for your advise and assistance.
I'm still new and a lot more to learn from you.

[Mod Edit: I've had to delete a couple of nonsensical posts from you. You are officially warning against going off-topic in a thread. Kindly read and observe forum rules if you intend to remain a member of this forum. No further warning will be issued.]

Do you actually have anything meaningful to say or contribute? Or is the sole purpose of you being here just to annoy people, display your inability to have a meaningful discussion and to act like a clueless 5 year old child?

 

[anaqin]

Malaysian Commando retake tanker from Somali Pirates

By Adrian David

2011/01/21 - KUALA LUMPUR: There was drama aplenty in the Gulf of Aden when commandos from a Royal Malaysian Navy auxilliary ship stormed and rescued a hijacked Malaysian chemical tanker and its crew from Somali pirates, early yesterday. The Shipborne Protection Team, comprising special forces from the combined Armed Forces tri-services, swung into action from the RMN’s Bunga Mas 5.

Their swift and timely action saved the lives and limbs of the 23 crew. It also salvaged the tanker laden with lubricating oil and ethylene dichloride, all of which is believed to be worth in excess of an estimated RM30 million. Bunga Mas 5’s effort resulted in the capture of seven Somali pirates, three of whom were injured in the ensuing gun battle with the commandos.

Relating the high drama, RMN chief Admiral Tan Sri Abdul Aziz Jaafar said MT Bunga Laurel, hired by the Malaysian International Shipping Corporation (MISC), was on its way from the gulf to Singapore when it was attacked by the pirates about 300 nautical miles (555km) east of Oman at 11.40pm on Thursday. “The drama unfolded just two hours after the Bunga Mas 5 had completed escorting the tanker and another MISC liquefied natural gas carrier, MT Seri Balhaf, to a safe zone called Easton 4 in the gulf...

Abdul Aziz said under the cover of darkness, seven pirates armed with AK-47 assault rifles, light machine guns and pistols suddenly emerged from a skiff boat and began boarding the tanker, firing at random.

MT Seri Balhaf was spared...

“The alarmed tanker crew activated the Ship Security Alert System before taking cover in a specially-designed security compartment near the vessel’s engine room,” Abdul Aziz said. Responding to the SOS distress signal Bunga Mas 5, which was 14 nautical miles (25.9km) away, sped towards the tanker at 1.20am.

The navy’s Fennec attack helicopter went airborne to provide reconnaissance and aerial gunfire from its mounted general purpose machine gun. “Several shots on target from the helicopter kept the pirate’s mother ship at bay. This preventive measure saved the tanker from serious damage and minimised the risk on its crew.

“Simultaneously, the commandos boarded the tanker and subdued the pirates. It was all over within minutes. There were no injuries on the Malaysians, while the three injured pirates were given first-aid,” said Abdul Aziz.

Following interrogation with the authorities, he confirmed that all seven captured pirates were Somalis who admitted that they had used one of the previously captured vessels as their mother ship. ‘What’s baffling is that they seemed to know our movements, including even the 300-nautical mile extended envelope in the gulf. They are ruthless and their threats are for real,” said Abdul Aziz...

Bunga Mas 5 has a crew of 21 MISC supporting personnel and 39 Shipborne Protection Team members from the Armed Forces, specialising in various trades. There are four teams, inclusive of six special force members, deployed for the two-day escort duty shift in the gulf under Operasi Fajar launched since June 21, 2009. Bunga Mas 5 can escort up to three vessels at a time, including foreign ships as requested by international authorities...

South Korean navy commandos stormed the Samho Jewelrya hijacked by Somali pirates about 1,300 kilometres (800 miles) off northeast Somalia in the Indian Ocean, rescuing all the 21 crew and killing eight pirates...

 

[STURM]

The RMN Chief has indicated that the RMN is willing to send another vessel, presumably a Kedah class NGOPV, if the Malaysian International Shipping Corporation [MISC] is willing to bear the costs. The main reason for converting the Bunga Mas 5 to a naval auxilliary ship was to avoid the high costs of deploying RMN vessels to the Gulf of Aden and to mantain it's comittments in home waters. Since the retirement and transfers of the Vosper built Sabah and Kris class patrol boats to the MMEA, the number of patrol assets has declined, though partly replaced by the 6 Kedah class NGOPVs. The RMN's first OPVs - KD Mystari and Kd Marikh - were also transfered to the MMEA a few years ago.

A link to an article on the visit to the Sepanggar sub base in October by the USS Jacksonville.

USS Jacksonville Returns to Pearl Harbor

In conjuction with a visit by the the sub tender USS Frank Cable and the USS Houston to Malaysia in 2006, the first multinational sub talks involving the USN, RMN and RAN were held aboard the USS Frank Cable, hosted by the USN.

Frank Cable Hosts First Multinational Sub Talks in Malaysia

 

[STURM]

A short documentary on the deployment to the Gulf of Aden including footage of the operation in which some 'pirates' were captured. It's in Malay with no subtitles.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uISldCvUXrU"]YouTube - ‪Majalah 3 ops fajar‬‏[/nomedia]

 

[Ananda]

Damen got Upper Hand on TLDM Deal ?

From Utusan on line : Utusan Malaysia Online - Polis & Tentera

Just curious, when Damen design got consideration by TLDM ? I thought Malaysian will go with either German (Meko) or French (Gowind) design ?

If this's true than Damen really make a commercial coup. Damen design so far seems still considered 'potentially' commercially less successful from more exposed French and German designs for Corvettes and Light Frigates market, by many western analyst (despite already being operational with Moroccan and Indonesian Navy).

Well it's just show you can't underestimate the dutch on commercial deal

 

[STURM]

From Utusan on line : Utusan Malaysia Online - Polis & Tentera

Just curious, when Damen design got consideration by TLDM ? I thought Malaysian will go with either German (Meko) or French (Gowind) design ?

The government has yet to announce the winner, but the leading contenders are the Germans with a slightly larger Meko A100 design and the Gowind. What we do know is that approval has been granted to equip the class with SSMs, a VLS [for which the ESSM is believed to be the leading contender], 2 triple torpedo tubes and either just a bow mounted active/passive sonar or a bow mounted active/passive sonar with a towed array.

Well it's just show you can't underestimate the dutch on commercial deal

RDM had previously tried to sell a pair of used Zwaardis SSKs to the RMN. The Zwaardis and Tigerhaai were at Lumut for years before being scrapped. Malaysia remains primarily a British, German and French market, despite some contracts being awarded to the Russians this past decade. It will be very surprising indeed if Damen gets the contract.

 

[Ananda]

RDM had previously tried to sell a pair of used Zwaardis SSKs to the RMN. The Zwaardis and Tigerhaai were at Lumut for years before being scrapped. Malaysia remains primarily a British, German and French market, despite some contracts being awarded to the Russians this past decade. It will be very surprising indeed if Damen gets the contract.

Yes, it will be quite an upset to French and German if the Dutch suddenly make late appearances and win the contract. For me reading from an article on this matter from one of the leading newspaper in Malaysia (with strong ties to Governing party), means this has to be some merit.