Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates

[StingrayOZ]

The whiners in Ontario, especially TO and Ottawa, not to mention the lower Fraser Valley and Vancouver, think money spent on anything other than unharmed coastal patrol vessels is excessive. Big expensive research vessels are ok though, they are just so PC.

Why not get both?

Have you seen the new Australian Antarctic Icebreaker RSV Nuyina? Or RV Investigator.

You shouldn't need to choose between Defence and Civilian marine project. A healthy country will be able to do both and see the value and worth in both, as they are in fact complimentary. I think everyone can see the worth in having civilian ships with massively powerful weather radars and the ability to create detailed maps of the ocean floor at all depths. A large icebreaker with large landing craft that can carry 45t is always useful.

If anyone really wants to challenge your territorial possessions that are sparsely populated, they will likely just turn up one day. So having strong civilian assets is one way of patrolling and eyeballing and being a presence.

Which is why China's fishing fleet is almost like another arm of the navy as is its Coast guard.

Of course that is just one part of the equation. Large and powerful countries won't care about your patrol ship. That is why you have destroyers and submarines and planes and armies.

 

[John Fedup]

Thanks to the pollies here, voted into office by our brain-dead socialist mentality electorate, we don't have destroyers (tribal class is gone and we have to wait for CSCs to replace this capability), used submarines that are costing a fortune to operate and upgrade, and now used Hornets for the airforce. Yes, Canada is a wealthy country that can afford a decent defence capability but Canadians generally have no appreciation for defence matters which is why our pollies can get away with starving the CFs. The plan is for 88 new fighters and and 15 CSC ships. If junior gets re-elected and he continues with his annual $20 billion deficits then 88 fighters and 15 ships won't be happening IMHO.

 

[Mattshel]

I had read the PBO's report briefly, maybe there is someone with more knowledge than I have but what would we be looking at full load displacement if the light ship displacement is 6,900 tonnes? Does anyone know when the requirements definition phase will be complete, I had read somewhere that it may be sooner than many people originally thought.

 

[Calculus]

Why not get both?

Have you seen the new Australian Antarctic Icebreaker RSV Nuyina? Or RV Investigator.

You shouldn't need to choose between Defence and Civilian marine project. A healthy country will be able to do both and see the value and worth in both, as they are in fact complimentary. I think everyone can see the worth in having civilian ships with massively powerful weather radars and the ability to create detailed maps of the ocean floor at all depths. A large icebreaker with large landing craft that can carry 45t is always useful.

If anyone really wants to challenge your territorial possessions that are sparsely populated, they will likely just turn up one day. So having strong civilian assets is one way of patrolling and eyeballing and being a presence.

Which is why China's fishing fleet is almost like another arm of the navy as is its Coast guard.

Of course that is just one part of the equation. Large and powerful countries won't care about your patrol ship. That is why you have destroyers and submarines and planes and armies.

Why not get both?

Have you seen the new Australian Antarctic Icebreaker RSV Nuyina? Or RV Investigator.

You shouldn't need to choose between Defence and Civilian marine project. A healthy country will be able to do both and see the value and worth in both, as they are in fact complimentary. I think everyone can see the worth in having civilian ships with massively powerful weather radars and the ability to create detailed maps of the ocean floor at all depths. A large icebreaker with large landing craft that can carry 45t is always useful.

If anyone really wants to challenge your territorial possessions that are sparsely populated, they will likely just turn up one day. So having strong civilian assets is one way of patrolling and eyeballing and being a presence.

Which is why China's fishing fleet is almost like another arm of the navy as is its Coast guard.

Of course that is just one part of the equation. Large and powerful countries won't care about your patrol ship. That is why you have destroyers and submarines and planes and armies.

@StingrayOZ, Canada has this capability already in its Coast Guard - List of equipment of the Canadian Coast Guard - Wikipedia

I think @John Fedup was simply trying to make the point that spending money on "armed" vessels was contrary to the pacifist leanings of an unfortunately quite vocal minority of Canadians who mostly reside in those areas he mentioned.

 

[John Fedup]

@Calculus .....I agree on the vocal but I truly believe "minority" doesn't represent the magnitude of the problem. Yes, the pacifist group isn't as significant as the whining socialist group or the just don't give a $hit group but when you add all three together it kind of explains why defence is at the back of the bus.

 

[Mattshel]

@StingrayOZ, Canada has this capability already in its Coast Guard - List of equipment of the Canadian Coast Guard - Wikipedia

I think @John Fedup was simply trying to make the point that spending money on "armed" vessels was contrary to the pacifist leanings of an unfortunately quite vocal minority of Canadians who mostly reside in those areas he mentioned.

As noted, I think it is a very vocal minority. The Navy in Canada is in the fortunate situation that there is bi-partisan support for shipbuilding, and it seems that sovereignty of sea lanes is something that the Lib's and Con's seem to care about to varying degrees as are the shipbuilding jobs. I think the CSC Program is fortunate in this regard and also with the fact that it is money "staying" in Canada vs the CF-18 Replacement and other similar programs that will need to go overseas (Potential Submarine replacement included as well).

 

[Black Jack Shellac]

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman to Retire.

I think this is sad news for the RCN. However, I wish the best for Admiral Norman.

I suspect the current government did not want this situation dragging on into the election this fall so paid him out handsomely to retire.

Payback will be if he decides to run for the conservatives this fall.

 

[John Fedup]

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman to Retire.

I think this is sad news for the RCN. However, I wish the best for Admiral Norman.

I suspect the current government did not want this situation dragging on into the election this fall so paid him out handsomely to retire.

Payback will be if he decides to run for the conservatives this fall.

We can only hope. I wonder which riding would best send junior a message where the sun doesn't shine!!!

 

[Calculus]

Canadian Coast Guard gets its first new NSS ship: Canadian Coast Guard welcomes 1st new vessel built under National Shipbuilding Strategy

 

[ngatimozart]

Commodore Josée Kurtz RCN, has assumed the command of Standing NATO Maritime Group Two (SNMG2). She is the first woman to command a NATO multinational naval task force in a highly sensitive area. SNMG2 PAO (Primary Area of Operations) covers the Mediterranean and Black Seas. BZ CDRE.

Canadian woman makes NATO maritime history

 

[ngatimozart]

Commodore Josée Kurtz RCN, has assumed the command of Standing NATO Maritime Group Two (SNMG2). She is the first woman to command a NATO multinational naval task force in a highly sensitive area. SNMG2 PAO (Primary Area of Operations) covers the Mediterranean and Black Seas. BZ CDRE.

Canadian woman makes NATO maritime history

 

[Black Jack Shellac]

Hepburn Engineering to supply replenishment systems.

Nice to see this. I've used Hepburn many times in my profession for hoists and winches for shaft sinking in mining. I didn't even know they did this work for the Navy. For mining they are a good company, I hope the same holds true for the Navy.

 

[spoz]

Well, they do provide RAS gear for a number of other countries so it should be low risk.

 

[Flexson]

Hepburn Engineering to supply replenishment systems.

Nice to see this. I've used Hepburn many times in my profession for hoists and winches for shaft sinking in mining. I didn't even know they did this work for the Navy. For mining they are a good company, I hope the same holds true for the Navy.

Royal Australian Navy's Former AOR HMAS Success used Hepburn RAS Automatic Tension Control Systems, the system being fitted in its 2015/2016 Upgrade. Pretty good, not many issues with the Hepburn equipment itself. I remember reading somewhere Hepburn will be used on the Supply class AOR's as well, which makes sense as Spain uses Hepburn on its AOR's.

 

[John Fedup]

The USCG is upgrading their 47 foot lifeboats. As Canada has the same boats, perhaps we will do the same. I wonder if Volvo ‘s IPS system would be a decent enhancement albeit likely expensive.

Birdon Group gets $191m for US Coast Guard Motor Lifeboat fleet refit

 

[ASSAIL]

The USCG is upgrading their 47 foot lifeboats. As Canada has the same boats, perhaps we will do the same. I wonder if Volvo ‘s IPS system would be a decent enhancement albeit likely expensive.

Birdon Group gets $191m for US Coast Guard Motor Lifeboat fleet refit

The Birdon parent company in Australia has come far from its roots as a small shipyard and dredging operation in Port Macquarie NSW.
https://www.birdon.com.au/
It now has major projects across Australia and has been involved in many and varied defence projects from disposing of the F111s and Fremantle Class PBs to the major dredging works currently underway on wharf reconstruction at FBE.

 

[Pusser01]

The Birdon parent company in Australia has come far from its roots as a small shipyard and dredging operation in Port Macquarie NSW.
Birdon
It now has major projects across Australia and has been involved in many and varied defence projects from disposing of the F111s and Fremantle Class PBs to the major dredging works currently underway on wharf reconstruction at FBE.

They also had the contract to scrap ex-Sydney here at Henderson & are currently ripping apart ex-Darwin.

 

[Flexson]

They also had the contract to scrap ex-Sydney here at Henderson & are currently ripping apart ex-Darwin.

As well as currently taking the Pacific Class patrol boats for disposal as they are replaced by the Gaurdian Class. Also prepared and scuttled Ex Canberra and Tobruk as dive wrecks..... although the latter didnt exactly go according to plan

 

[John Fedup]

As if we needed anymore information on how incompetent team junior is, we now have this. In order to give Quebec based Davie more business they used a lockout specification for a beam of 24 meters in order to eliminate an Ontario as a bidder for some coast guard icebreakers. The Seaway locks only handle beams of 23.8 meters. The icebreakers for use in the Great Lakes, go figure.

Ontario shipyard accuses feds of unfairly stacking deck in Davie's favour

 

[Calculus]

The Seaway locks only handle beams of 23.8 meters.

Not exactly. The locks are in fact 24.4m wide, but the typical Seaway freighter (Seawaymax) will have a beam of 23.8 in order to give a bit of room for margin. That does not mean a vessel with a beam of 24m can't transit the locks, however, if extra care is taken, and there are may examples of this happening during the history of the canal. And now, with the new hands-free mooring system that eliminates the mooring cables (in favour of vacuum pads), it's anticipated that the Seawaymax specification will be increased to 24m anyway. The only area I see Heddle Marine being deficient is with respect to the requirement that a yard will be currently building (or will have built recently) a vessel of at least 1000 tonnes displacement. Given these new icebreakers will likely be even larger (probably quite a bit larger, given the currently tasked vessels are all in the 4-6000 ton range, full load), this seem like a reasonable requirement.