Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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Hazdog said:
Thanks John,

I did do quiet a lot of reading after my previous post and came across may different OPVs and information but you certainly helped. I found it interesting that the Sea Axe OPV wasn't listed as the 'first' option out of the three due to it's multi-mission capability and the growth room it shows. The site says "Damen Technical Cooperation enables you to build your Damen vessel locally, anywhere in the world. We will provide you with a prefabricated shipbuilding kit and can, on request, combine this with expert assistance, training and backup. By using standardised components it is possible to make a custom-built design, fulfilling any specific local requirements. This cost-efficient technique can be applied to the full range of Damen vessels across a wide variety of marine operations." which seems to provide an easy way to build your own ships locally without the hassle, and that may be something that may help the DoD select it.:p:
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We need to remember that DTR and others are 'assuming' that these are the vessels on offer based on length mainly. All three were sent of to 'refine' their designs as part of the process so you may see something slightly different in the same length and tonnage range when the bids are in.
 
As we are talking about ships and their uses, does anyone else think the new ice breaker might be used as a sea lift ship or southern patrol ship during Winter?

Another Damen design as was the aviation support ship.

Might Ocean shield be used to support Antarctic missions? (Islands not the continent itself) Its err, sort of Boarder protection stuff.
 
StingrayOZ said:
As we are talking about ships and their uses, does anyone else think the new ice breaker might be used as a sea lift ship or southern patrol ship during Winter?

Another Damen design as was the aviation support ship.

Might Ocean shield be used to support Antarctic missions? (Islands not the continent itself) Its err, sort of Boarder protection stuff.
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The replacement for Aurora Australis is certainly a big girl, a very big girl!

Have a look at the link below (if you scroll down the page to 'downloads' there is a very details PDF with all the ships details):

Australian Icebreaker operated by DMS Maritime to be constructed by Damen

96 x TEU Containers (Aurora Australis capacity 29 TEU)
2 x Landing Craft
4 x 5 ton LARC
2 x medium or 4 x light helicopters
3 x RHIB

Etc, etc, she certainly appears to have plenty of 'inbuilt' capabilities to deliver all of that cargo and equipment too.

Here's another link too (click on the photo and there are a number of computer generated images from a range of angles):

Australia’s new icebreaker — Australian Antarctic Division
 
John Newman said:
The replacement for Aurora Australis is certainly a big girl, a very big girl!

Have a look at the link below (if you scroll down the page to 'downloads' there is a very details PDF with all the ships details):

Australian Icebreaker operated by DMS Maritime to be constructed by Damen

96 x TEU Containers (Aurora Australis capacity 29 TEU)
2 x Landing Craft
4 x 5 ton LARC
2 x medium or 4 x light helicopters
3 x RHIB

Etc, etc, she certainly appears to have plenty of 'inbuilt' capabilities to deliver all of that cargo and equipment too.

Here's another link too (click on the photo and there are a number of computer generated images from a range of angles):

Australia’s new icebreaker — Australian Antarctic Division
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Cautionary note. The size and capability of this vessel has been tailored to its role including scientific research.

The size is to allow for the resupply of two bases in a single voyage but also to provide for some flexibility if a base cannot be serviced on the schedules voyage.

The hull is fitted with a multitude of opening for sensors for research and it will be busy in this regard when not engaged in resupply. The funding for this vessels (build and operation) does not appear to cover any other functions such as patrol.

The OP and OS are both basic Ice class vessel so they can operate in polar waters but ...... they are not ice breakers and not design for such work, however, patrol in the Southern Ocean should be within their capability.

Post script - the design is from Knud rather than Damen ... noting they have bought into this sector (as they have with a lot of sectors).
 
alexsa said:
Cautionary note. The size and capability of this vessel has been tailored to its role including scientific research.

The size is to allow for the resupply of two bases in a single voyage but also to provide for some flexibility if a base cannot be serviced on the schedules voyage.

The hull is fitted with a multitude of opening for sensors for research and it will be busy in this regard when not engaged in resupply. The funding for this vessels (build and operation) does not appear to cover any other functions such as patrol.

The OP and OS are both basic Ice class vessel so they can operate in polar waters but ...... they are not ice breakers and not design for such work, however, patrol in the Southern Ocean should be within their capability.

Post script - the design is from Knud rather than Damen ... noting they have bought into this sector (as they have with a lot of sectors).
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Mate, wouldn't disagree one bit about the primary and specific role for the ship, not one bit. Was putting the ships specs up in response to a previous post.

Regardless, she is impressive in her size and capabilities, could she have other roles? Suppose nothing is impossible in an emergency.


On a side note, will be interesting to see what she is eventually named (apparently there is a 'school competition' to find a name for her).

But lets hope we don't end up with what happened in the UK when a name was sought, via a competition too, for a new polar research vessel:

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...tface-wins-poll-to-name-polar-research-vessel

Somehow I don't think a 'Boaty McBoatface' type name would work here!!!!
 
John Newman said:
...On a side note, will be interesting to see what she is eventually named (apparently there is a 'school competition' to find a name for her).

But lets hope we don't end up with what happened in the UK when a name was sought, via a competition too, for a new polar research vessel:

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...tface-wins-poll-to-name-polar-research-vessel

Somehow I don't think a 'Boaty McBoatface' type name would work here!!!!
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They named the ship RRS Sir David Attenborough, and used Boaty McBoatface as the name for the ship's remote submersible.
 
FormerDirtDart said:
They named the ship RRS Sir David Attenborough, and used Boaty McBoatface as the name for the ship's remote submersible.
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Well there you go, that's a much better name!

Maybe we could use some famous Australian Antarctic explorer names.

Or we could work on a theme regarding her 'colour', Red, for example:

* Big Red!
* Better Red than Dead (cold war)
* Ranga (Aussie slang for a red haired person)
* Red Dog (after the movie)
* Bluey (Aussie slang for a redhead)

Bluey, is a good one, think I'll stick to that!!
 
Milne Bay said:
So - Douglas Mawson then.
:)
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"Frank Hurley"

A compromise - Antarctic Explorer with both Mawson and Shacleton, techical ground breaker, photographer including official war photographer to the Australian forces in both WW1 and WW2.

It's worth a look at his Wiki entry if you don't know of him. You'll quite likely recognise many of his images

oldsig
 
Muar River said:
Would a mix of 12 Cape Class patrol boats and six Navantia light frigates provide more flexibility to the RAN?
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At what cost - follow the money to see what else we forego. These are almost the same size as the ANZACs

And with what twisting of CONOPS to justify 15 frigates instead of nine?

oldsig
 
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oldsig127 said:
"Frank Hurley"

A compromise - Antarctic Explorer with both Mawson and Shacleton, techical ground breaker, photographer including official war photographer to the Australian forces in both WW1 and WW2.

It's worth a look at his Wiki entry if you don't know of him. You'll quite likely recognise many of his images

oldsig
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Very famous photographer indeed.
Plenty of WW1 images bear his stamp
MB
 
Funding is always the issue but it is nice to dream of a force of around 18 frigates. I guess after reading comments about upgrading the proposed OPVs, the possibility of a mix of new Cape class vessels and more capable light frigates came to mind. I am interested however in the views of forum members of the Navantia light frigate.
 
oldsig127 said:
"Frank Hurley"

A compromise - Antarctic Explorer with both Mawson and Shacleton, techical ground breaker, photographer including official war photographer to the Australian forces in both WW1 and WW2.

It's worth a look at his Wiki entry if you don't know of him. You'll quite likely recognise many of his images

oldsig
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If it isn't Bluey, then Frank Hurley will do me!

Great photographer ('ve done a lot too myself), but certainly not to his standard.

But especially because my Daughter is actually a professional photographer as well:

Rebecca Newman Photography - Melbourne, Australia

(Yes ok, free plug for my Daughter too!)

Edit: One more link too:

http://blog.rebeccanewman.com.au/images
 
John Newman said:
Nah, Bluey is better (tongue in cheek comment).

But yes, pretty good, could do worse!
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Yes, I do like Bluey - BlueyMcBlueFace is just too long for Australians to pronounce :)

I had forgotten Sir Ernest Shackleton which would also be a good choice.
MB

PS - Just noticed that there is already an RSS Ernest Shackleton in service
:)
 
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The light frigate is interesting but I have a feeling the French are a step ahead in this department as they are already moving ahead with the La Fayette replacement which it's self has seen decent export success (ignoring the scandal with Taiwan).

The F-538 despite the lesson's learned from there other builds is still effictively a new virgin design while the Belh@rra is an evolution of a proven design while the Meko 200 is even further ahead with how successful it's export's have been (33 ships operation/under consutruction with 7 navies).

Add in the Russians and Chinese and I don't see Navantia having great success with it, The market for such ships has been filled for quite some time already.
 
vonnoobie said:
The light frigate is interesting but I have a feeling the French are a step ahead in this department as they are already moving ahead with the La Fayette replacement which it's self has seen decent export success (ignoring the scandal with Taiwan).

The F-538 despite the lesson's learned from there other builds is still effictively a new virgin design while the Belh@rra is an evolution of a proven design while the Meko 200 is even further ahead with how successful it's export's have been (33 ships operation/under consutruction with 7 navies).

Add in the Russians and Chinese and I don't see Navantia having great success with it, The market for such ships has been filled for quite some time already.
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There is always an offset ...... The F-538 has a range of 4000nm, the ANZAC ..... 6000nm. This is no small issue.

When comparing designs we cannot simply look at weapons. The range, sensor and combat system fit are also critical issues and these take up space an weight ..... more so with modern systems.

We have gone for a bigger frigate on the ANZAC replacement for growth margin. The F-538 will not provide you that and it will not be cheap given the weapon and sensor fit.

We have to work within our budget and I cannot see another class of light multi rule frigates such as the F-538 fitting within the RAN cost and operational structure.

For escorts we could look at evolving the OPV hull with roles specific sensors and a basic self defence fit (on the assumption such 'escorts' would be part of a group). ASW springs to mind as a logical option in this regard noting some of the designs being considered have very long legs, relatively small and (according to the blurb) reasonable acoustics that would allow a tail and/or autonomous surface craft to be employed (noting there is a containerised - 2 per box - autonomous vessel system in development which can be used for military application to extend coverage using its own tail).

That option could be used without massive damage to the budget.
 
Thanks for providing your advice on the light frigate. These are issues which I did not take into consideration when I made the initial post, I enjoy reading posts from more knowledgeable members on the forum.

As a separate issue, industry is geared towards building the Navantia frigate. Do you consider the F104 frigate can be developed as has the A. Burke design to meet not only the future frigate requirement but to replace the AWDs?
 
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