I've had a USN colleague describe them as having a "cottage industry" culture and not ready for the main game...
and he was a fan of the westpac express platform.
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter icelord
- Start date
- Status
and he was a fan of the westpac express platform.
t68
Well-Known Member
Hi GF12 subs is on.
I'll be going to work early on Thurs.....
Did you enjoy the early start?
Do you know roughly what time they will release the DWP and the best site on the net to get it from?
The reports I've seen and heard quoted 5,000 but it seems even that is an exaggeration. The Defence Minister speaking in a radio interview this morning said something like 2,500 new jobs and 2,300 "re-allocated" from other areas. I take it that she means the "reallocated" jobs are similar to a company sacking unwanted boilermakers and hiring web designers. Take your pick which areas of the current forces lose out, but at least a real increase of 2,500 is somewhat positive
oldsig127
(Edit: She actually said "recategorized" not reallocated
Last edited:
9 ASW frigates
12 OPVs
12 submarines
2016 Au DWP Enjoy.
Link includes the investment program and the industry policy statement.
2016 DWP PDF
Defence Integrated Investment Program PDF
2016 Defence Industry Policy Statement PDF
12 OPVs
12 submarines
2016 Au DWP Enjoy.
Link includes the investment program and the industry policy statement.
2016 DWP PDF
Defence Integrated Investment Program PDF
2016 Defence Industry Policy Statement PDF
Last edited:
He also said "Three additional AWDs"
Mis-spoken because the AWDs are hardly additional capabilities rising from this DWP, but I'm sure it caused a few heart flutters!
As far as I'm concerned the confirmation of 9 frigates is as good news as the submarines (because there had been suggestions at one time that the numbers would be reduced below eight) and 12 larger more capable OPVs to replace 14 patrol boats is also welcome - I had feared they'd trim numbers further than that or go for a hi-lo mix
oldsig127
While we are making headway in regards to the Frigates thus making a 2020 build date possible I have yet to see much from the government in what there requirements for the OPV's are, Seeing how long is can take the beaurocrats to decide on something I do worry that a 2018 build date will not be possible.
In regards to the submarines in the white paper Defence white paper: new submarine fleet to cost taxpayers $150 billion has said that defence has calculated the cost of the 12 boats at $50 billion not including life time costs, Is this accurate or has it been another case of the media jumping the gun without dotting their i's and crossing their t's?
In regards to the submarines in the white paper Defence white paper: new submarine fleet to cost taxpayers $150 billion has said that defence has calculated the cost of the 12 boats at $50 billion not including life time costs, Is this accurate or has it been another case of the media jumping the gun without dotting their i's and crossing their t's?
I should think that we'll know better in the second half of this year, but personally expect it'll be the second half of 2018 at best unless the OPV choice is more largely OTS than we have a habit of purchasing.
Jumping the gun. The PM stressed that the $50b figure is costed, the CDF stressed that sustainment cost wouldn't be known until after the completion of the CEP, and laughed off the media clown who tried to tell him that it would be double the purchase cost - merely saying that it would be at best a rule of thumb guess.
I assume it was either an SMH hack, or someone who took their cue from an SMH article. Given the quality of Defence reporting in mainstream press I suggest that we'd be better waiting on someone who has a clue.
oldsig127
Less than good news from the DWP in my opinion. I guess I can understand putting off the replacement of our mine countermeasures capability given that the technology is in flux and increasingly being done using remotely controlled vessels. However, I'm a bit uncomfortable with the idea of farming out survey to commercial interests.
The two points together pretty much (for the near future) eliminates the Rudd era idea of a common hull being used for patrol, mine countermeasures and survey which may be a pity in so far as industry and sustainment is concerned.
oldsig127
DWP equipment summary
I think this is a reasonably comprehensive summary...
RAN
12 new subs, from early 2030s
12 new OPVs, from 2018
9 new ASW frigates, from late 2020s
2 (+ 1 option) new replenishment ships, from early 2020s
4 Huon MCMVs to be upgraded
Short-range ship based UAV
Land based deployable anti-ship missiles
Upgrade of HMAS Choules including self-defence systems
RAAF
8 + 7 extra = 15 P8s, from early 2020s
7 Tritons, from early 2020s
2 + 3 options for G550 ISR aircraft, from early 2020s
Long term possibility of 2 additional KC30s (ie 9 total)
Medium altitude armed UAV, from early 2020s
ARMY
Tiger ARH to be replaced, from mid 2020s
3 additional CH-47 (for total of 10)
light helicopters to support special ops
Long range rocket artillery, from mid 2020s
RBS-70 replacement in early 2020s,
medium range GBAD in late 2020s
Bushmaster replacement, from 2025
Riverine patrol craft, from 2022
Improved aero-medical evac and possible CSAR capability
Notable omissions:
LCH replacement
additional M1 tanks
I think this is a reasonably comprehensive summary...
RAN
12 new subs, from early 2030s
12 new OPVs, from 2018
9 new ASW frigates, from late 2020s
2 (+ 1 option) new replenishment ships, from early 2020s
4 Huon MCMVs to be upgraded
Short-range ship based UAV
Land based deployable anti-ship missiles
Upgrade of HMAS Choules including self-defence systems
RAAF
8 + 7 extra = 15 P8s, from early 2020s
7 Tritons, from early 2020s
2 + 3 options for G550 ISR aircraft, from early 2020s
Long term possibility of 2 additional KC30s (ie 9 total)
Medium altitude armed UAV, from early 2020s
ARMY
Tiger ARH to be replaced, from mid 2020s
3 additional CH-47 (for total of 10)
light helicopters to support special ops
Long range rocket artillery, from mid 2020s
RBS-70 replacement in early 2020s,
medium range GBAD in late 2020s
Bushmaster replacement, from 2025
Riverine patrol craft, from 2022
Improved aero-medical evac and possible CSAR capability
Notable omissions:
LCH replacement
additional M1 tanks
Gordon Branch
New Member
There is mention of "Canberra Class Ship Transport Vessels ($300m-$400m)". Could that be the LCH Replacement? The money allocated seems to be in the ballpark.
Very interesting what is and is not in the white paper.
We really don't have a replacement for the LCH. Perhaps the OPV will have some sort of capability. Or Australia has all the amphibious capability it requires.
The last order of F-35 are still flexible.
We really don't have a replacement for the LCH. Perhaps the OPV will have some sort of capability. Or Australia has all the amphibious capability it requires.
The last order of F-35 are still flexible.
Why does that sound an aweful lot like more LCM-1e. And doesn't seem to be explained in the white paper at all..
Yes very interesting indead.
Had the misfortune of catching Conroy and Feeney discussing it on ABC.
Feeney actually didn't do too bad and nicely articulated a number of miss represented facts about naval support and sustainment through the Labor years, conveniently left out that they didn't actually order any new ships, but did rightly point out the shocking state of marine sustainment they inherited and the work and spending required to fix it.
Conroy on the other hand was shocking, mumbling and fumbling through a rambling difficult to follow what ever it was. The only bits I was able to comprehend were those I already had heard or read, i.e. the ABC fact check into defence spending that pointed out Howard 2002/3 budget allocation was only 1.62% GDP (in the middle of a boom, immediately following Timor, where we had been caught with our pants down, and while we had combat forces deployed in the War on Terror).
God help us if Conroy becomes defmin, just need to hope Mike Kelly get back in if there is a change of government.
Had the misfortune of catching Conroy and Feeney discussing it on ABC.
Feeney actually didn't do too bad and nicely articulated a number of miss represented facts about naval support and sustainment through the Labor years, conveniently left out that they didn't actually order any new ships, but did rightly point out the shocking state of marine sustainment they inherited and the work and spending required to fix it.
Conroy on the other hand was shocking, mumbling and fumbling through a rambling difficult to follow what ever it was. The only bits I was able to comprehend were those I already had heard or read, i.e. the ABC fact check into defence spending that pointed out Howard 2002/3 budget allocation was only 1.62% GDP (in the middle of a boom, immediately following Timor, where we had been caught with our pants down, and while we had combat forces deployed in the War on Terror).
God help us if Conroy becomes defmin, just need to hope Mike Kelly get back in if there is a change of government.
Lies, damned lies and statistics. "In the middle of a boom" 1.62% of GDP is liable to be a deal more than spent during a recession at 2% of GDP.
Leave the politics to the politicians. Concentrate on what the paper means for the ADF
oldsig127
Unless I misread, there's also a statement suggesting more heavy lift at a later date, most likely NOT C-17A unless the USAF is divesting itself which seems unlikely
4.93 The ADF’s air lift capability will comprise eight heavy lift
C-17A Globemasters with additional heavy lift aircraft to
be acquired later
oldsig127
(Edit: sorry, off topic for Navy & Maritime)
meatshield
Active Member
Are they talking about a LARSM?
God help them (and us), if Mike Kelly is the great hope for the Labor Party and ADF.
He is a deeply unimpressive man, although granted not on the scale of dill as Conroy.
Kelly is a lawyer, who happened to be in the military as a lawyer.
He is a political thug who would be as big a disaster for ADF as recent Liberal and Labor incumbents.
- Status