Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[t68]

ET = east timor
711 = the local general store 7 Eleven

sorry, there's a tendency for me to type in acronyms as I tend to speed type in the hope it creates less mistakes

forum is littered with me having to go back and fix typos and grammar due to phat fingers and flying them over small keypads ...

Ha ha 711 never thought of that, at least you can type i'am a 1 finger guy on the pc and iPhone, but what annoys me is the auto correct on the iPhone. I a HQ Holden man in a VE Holden world

 

[Flexson]

Through some rough calculation's (JP-5 and F-76 fuel weighted at 832 g/Litre, 1,000 Litre's to a cubic meter) the Cantabria holds a total of 8,740 tonnes of fuel of which about 15% is the JP-5 (1,311 tonnes).

The Aegir 18A holds 8,070 tonnes of fuel of which in current form only 420 tonnes is JP-5 though according to your link if actually truthful and accurate that could be changed relatively easily, though by how much is the question.

The HMAS Success holds 9,682 tonnes of fuel, 975 tonnes of which is aviation (JP-5) fuel.

The HMAS Sirius holds 28,958 tonnes of fuel, 4,564 tonnes of which is aviation fuel.

In the terms of simple number's we are actually going backwards in capability by reducing our aviation fuel capacity by over 40% (based on using Spanish JP-5 capacity).

Either one is a decent replacement for the HMAS Success though still having less range and fuel capacity but neither come close to the range or fuel capacity of the Sirius.

Simply, No. Two ships especially of the size sought will not be enough at a time when we are expanding our naval fleet into larger ships and more naval aviation. Either larger vessel's or twice the number of AOR's (Aegir 18A or Cantabria) would be needed.

Success was never actually able to off load that much fuel without dirty ballasting, Meaning they would fill their tanks with seawater after they emptied each one to maintain stability. Which they practically never did and so were only able to give away 5000 something tonnes (can't remember exact number).

Now with the double hulling all the skin tanks are full with fresh water and they are able to give away just as much fuel as they normally did without dirty ballasting.

 

[vonnoobie]

Ha ha 711 never thought of that, at least you can type i'am a 1 finger guy on the pc and iPhone, but what annoys me is the auto correct on the iPhone. I a HQ Holden man in a VE Holden world

Oh the modern world is a prick and I've grown up in it lol. In regards to cars I've gone very old school and just bought a 1928 Essex Tourer (Great Grand fathers car), So much simpler to maintain, Can literally fix anything on the side of the road with a small too box including the Very powerful 18hp engine

 

[Oberon]

DWP Release Again Delayed

Brendan Nicholson in The Australian yesterday reported that the release of the 2015 DWP has again been delayed to allow the new PM and DEFMIN to get across the document.

“It is important that the ministers are completely across the white paper’s content so that the Turnbull government has ownership of it,” The Weekend Australian was told.

Any change of tone might involve a computer search to replace words and phrases like “death cult”, “shirt front” or “coming to get us”."

Also, in a separate article, the Weekend Australian reports that ASC has said that it will start dismissing up to 500 workers by year's if new work is not forthcoming.

 

[Raven22]

Look for the White Paper to be released in mid-Jan 2016.

 

[t68]

Brendan Nicholson in The Australian yesterday reported that the release of the 2015 DWP has again been delayed to allow the new PM and DEFMIN to get across the document.

“It is important that the ministers are completely across the white paper’s content so that the Turnbull government has ownership of it,” The Weekend Australian was told.

Any change of tone might involve a computer search to replace words and phrases like “death cult”, “shirt front” or “coming to get us”."

Also, in a separate article, the Weekend Australian reports that ASC has said that it will start dismissing up to 500 workers by year's if new work is not forthcoming.

Wonder how much Turnbull wants to change.

 

[aussienscale]

initial bunkerage reqs in an ET scenario would be by the LHD's

2 x LHD's + 2 x AOR's is a hefty set of maritime 711's

Exactly, and once initial requirements have been met by the LHD's and AOR's, supply for mainstream requirements would be via commercial delivery services in what would be by then a pretty secure environment.

Cheers

 

[Volkodav]

Wonder how much Turnbull wants to change.

Probably more a case of excising and captains picks and being across the detail of what is in it as I get the impression Abbott and his office were not big on consultation while the previous defmin likely didn't comprehend or fully understand much of what was in there.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Probably more a case of excising and captains picks and being across the detail of what is in it as I get the impression Abbott and his office were not big on consultation while the previous defmin likely didn't comprehend or fully understand much of what was in there.

Not the first time the defence paper has been delayed.
Defence White Paper, focusing on navy, unmanned systems and infrastructure, is running two months late

The white paper was becoming a magical unicorn that was going to solve impossible problems. "Labors Valley of death?" Subs, support, structure of the army, how we were to work with allies and what our real threats were.

There are calls to scrap everything and start again. I wonder if they did.
Defence white paper: bin it and start again

Obviously ASC and other stake holders can't live in limbo for ever. I really hope there are no more delays.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Interesting article from Lowyinterpreter
HMAS Canberra: A progress report on the RAN's new flagship

LLCs are built to carry Abrams tanks, but upgrades have taken the Australian Abrams marginally over the weight limit. The RAN's smaller amphibious ship HMAS Choules will therefore continue to provide an important bridging and back-up capability, able to heft larger cargoes on its rudimentary but durable Mexeflote motorised rafts.

The M1A1 aren't able to be carried on the LCM-1E? That's disappointing. Is this rectifiable?

Canberra plans to 'cross-deck' the much-larger US Marine MH-53 Sea Stallion and MV-22 Osprey.

Should be interesting.

Another interesting article on why 12 submarines:
Submarines: Build them here, and build 12

 

[vonnoobie]

While they can't live in limbo long term it would be better waiting a few extra months if it is going to deliver a steady stream of work over the coming decades.

We want to get this done right so that we only have to rebuild the industry one more time and that's it.

Ideally Payne and Turnbull will go with what Saab has offered and get a single life extension on the Collins with upgrades etc to allow there future replacements more time to be ironed out under a less rushed scenario. Between short foresight and political squabbling we have left the program far too late, Considering how important said asset's are we cant afford a capability gap because we may have to go back and redo things, 1 more full cycle docking is the logical choice that I hope she is willing to push for.

 

[ASSAIL]

Not the first time the defence paper has been delayed.
Defence White Paper, focusing on navy, unmanned systems and infrastructure, is running two months late

The white paper was becoming a magical unicorn that was going to solve impossible problems. "Labors Valley of death?" Subs, support, structure of the army, how we were to work with allies and what our real threats were.

There are calls to scrap everything and start again. I wonder if they did.
Defence white paper: bin it and start again

Obviously ASC and other stake holders can't live in limbo for ever. I really hope there are no more delays.

The Age article by Hugh White is the most self indulgent piece I've seen for some time. He denigrates Defence leaders, both uniformed and APS in suggesting they've no clue and have done no work in the lead up to the DWP. It's as though the politicians develop the DWP in a void and receive little advice from a lazy and compliant department whereas the knowledge held by others (White, implied) is far superior.
The Age does it again.

 

[swerve]

Interesting article from Lowyinterpreter
HMAS Canberra: A progress report on the RAN's new flagship



The M1A1 aren't able to be carried on the LCM-1E? That's disappointing. Is this rectifiable? ]

Mexeflotes are 'rudimentary'? Not a well-chosen word. They're designed to do different things than landing craft, including things landing craft can't do, such as being turned into pontoon jetties, enabling vehicles to drive straight from ship to shore in the right conditions. Of course they're also incapable of doing things landing craft are good at. Horses for courses - complementary capabilities.

 

[Volkodav]

I must admit that I was surprised when the LCM1E was selected without being supplemented with a larger more capable LCU of some sort considering the ADFs ongoing 'hardening' process. With the timing of the replacement LCHs unknown this may be a bit of an issue as the Beersheba brigades and ACRs ramp up, i.e. the LCM1Es may only be able to lift a single CRV or AIFV at a time as well limiting what can be easily and quickly landed.

 

[t68]

I must admit that I was surprised when the LCM1E was selected without being supplemented with a larger more capable LCU of some sort considering the ADFs ongoing 'hardening' process. With the timing of the replacement LCHs unknown this may be a bit of an issue as the Beersheba brigades and ACRs ramp up, i.e. the LCM1Es may only be able to lift a single CRV or AIFV at a time as well limiting what can be easily and quickly landed.

Agree, all the more to get our LCH program right from the beginning able to perform the globe strategic capabilty not just a regional one.

 

[oldsig127]

The Age article by Hugh White is the most self indulgent piece I've seen for some time. He denigrates Defence leaders, both uniformed and APS in suggesting they've no clue and have done no work in the lead up to the DWP. It's as though the politicians develop the DWP in a void and receive little advice from a lazy and compliant department whereas the knowledge held by others (White, implied) is far superior.
The Age does it again.

Translation: They didn't ask Hugh White.

I wouldn't either. His record of self serving ivory tower nonsense is long and undistinguished

oldsig

 

[gf0012-aust]

Translation: They didn't ask Hugh White.

I wouldn't either. His record of self serving ivory tower nonsense is long and undistinguished

oldsig

The bloke is a tosser - his ego must be up there with trumps - and at least trump does build things even though its with OPM

 

[Joe Black]

More Sea 1000 news - this time about DCNS's bid:
http://dcnsgroup.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/The-Australian-Subs-three-way-alliance.pdf

Some interesting comments:

This was because of a perception, rightly or wrongly, that the US did not entirely trust the French with its most sensitive technologies, given the Australian submarines will be fitted with an American combat system and weapons.

Since then, France has gone out of its way to kill such speculation.

It has solicited a formal letter from the US government in which the US declares it is fully supportive of the French bid for Sea 1000.

During a briefing near the Eiffel Tower, DCNS’s de Bailliencourt goes so far as to say that building the Australian submarines would amount to a three-way partnership between France, Australia and the US.

“It is a strategic partnership,” she says. “We are already working closely with the US (and) we are the most active (naval ally) with the US at this current time.”

Is this an attempt to silence the perception and to rid any worries about how US wouldn't allow the BYG to be integrated into the Shortfin Barracuda?


Another interesting sales pitch here:

What DCNS is proposing is a conventional version of its new Barracuda nuclear-powered submarine. To be known as the Shortfin Barracuda, the 4500-tonne boat would use the latest technologies of its new Barracuda fleet, including pump-jet propulsion to replace propellers, which DCNS claims are obsolete.

Its 97m boat, with 60 crew, would also feature hydroplanes which can retract to reduce drag and noise; the most powerful sonar produced for a conventional submarine; and the latest stealth technology provided as part of a government-to-government agreement.

Arguably the best platform? Don't know 'bout the hydrodynamic noise and can't comment how how good it will be compared to the Soryu's, but I like their pumpjet

Finally with to end with a bit of French flair, DCNS made this interesting comment:
"Germany and Japan hope the Barracuda Shortfin is indeed the most advanced submarine you’ll never see."

I say, Let the race begin!

 

[gf0012-aust]

Is this an attempt to silence the perception and to rid any worries about how US wouldn't allow the BYG to be integrated into the Shortfin Barracuda?


Another interesting sales pitch here:


Arguably the best platform? Don't know 'bout the hydrodynamic noise and can't comment how how good it will be compared to the Soryu's, but I like their pumpjet

Finally with to end with a bit of French flair, DCNS made this interesting comment:
"Germany and Japan hope the Barracuda Shortfin is indeed the most advanced submarine you’ll never see."

I say, Let the race begin!

good luck to the french with that sales pitch.

 

[hairyman]

Are we determined that our subs will have an American Combat System and weapons? Are they still the best available? You can be sure they will be the dearest.