Mmm, was reading "Vietnam The Australian War" by Paul Ham (recommend it to people on this forum who haven't read it.. although I get the impression most of you probably have). A navy clearance diver who was checking for mines around HMAS Sydney got into an underwater knife fight with an enemy. These guys are pretty bad ass IMO.
Try telling that to the TAG qualified Clearance Divers...
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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About a third of the SAS guys I have met have been CDs, not that I have met huge numbers of them though.
Try telling that to the TAG qualified Clearance Divers...
Special Duties Unit Parachute Badge
Awarded to personnel (CDT) who have successfully completed the Special Air Service Regiment (SASR) Selection Course, the Basic Parachute Course and have been accepted for service in the RAN Special Duties Unit attached to the Special Air Service Regiment. The badge consists of a gold-plated, moulded metal brooch depicting wings and having an open parachute in the centre.
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There were also these divers, do see the odd one around FBW.
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A
Aussie Digger
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In the Australian context he is technically correct. The CDT's aren't part of SOCOMD-A, because they are part of the Navy...
However their maritime tactical operations role, the contribution they make to TAG-East and the training, equipment and taskings means that the units most definitely are a "Special Force".
That nonsense about what they are "like" is a load of tosh. The Incident Response Regiment and the Special Forces Signal Squadrons ARE a part of SOCOMD-A which means they very much ARE "Special Forces" they may not be badged SASR operators or Commando Operators but that doesn't mean they aren't special forces operators. Not in the slighest. It is their training, equipment, force structure, role, restricted entrance and overall capability that makes them "special".
Not any silly generic description of what a "special forces" unit is. "To seek out and close with the enemy to kill or capture him" is not the role of the SASR. THAT is the role of the infantry. It goes on a bit more, but maybe this means that SASR aren't really "special" either?
However their maritime tactical operations role, the contribution they make to TAG-East and the training, equipment and taskings means that the units most definitely are a "Special Force".
That nonsense about what they are "like" is a load of tosh. The Incident Response Regiment and the Special Forces Signal Squadrons ARE a part of SOCOMD-A which means they very much ARE "Special Forces" they may not be badged SASR operators or Commando Operators but that doesn't mean they aren't special forces operators. Not in the slighest. It is their training, equipment, force structure, role, restricted entrance and overall capability that makes them "special".
Not any silly generic description of what a "special forces" unit is. "To seek out and close with the enemy to kill or capture him" is not the role of the SASR. THAT is the role of the infantry. It goes on a bit more, but maybe this means that SASR aren't really "special" either?
its also worth noting that the spec role has subtly changed/increased over recent times.
its their current "focus" that has changed
the media seems to focus on kinetic issues due to it being "sexy"
CD's also did some stellar work in MEAO during the gulf wars...
its their current "focus" that has changed
the media seems to focus on kinetic issues due to it being "sexy"
CD's also did some stellar work in MEAO during the gulf wars...
For those that don't know what this means it is the classical frogman role of swimming into an enemy harbour and attaching limpet mines to the bottom of their ship hulls and blowing them up. Also includes, amongst other things, clandestine beach reconnaissance to support amphibious assaults. International peer units with this tasking include:
Royal Marine SBS
US Navy SEAL Teams
IDF Flotilla 13
It’s just none of these better known forces combine the maritime tactical operations mission with MCM and EOD like the RAN’s clearance divers. The frogman role pretty much epitomises the concept of special forces.
A
Aussie Digger
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And a bit of boat boarding/re-taking off the coast of Somalia lately...
do you mean like this...
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I suggest you pop down to Swanbourne and ask any of the badged members of the Regiment if they consider their supporting sig's to be 'special forces', you will be laughed out of the main gate. I'm not talking about badged team trained signallers here, but those attached from the regular army who receive additional training in specialist comms equipment. Same applies at Papakura, Hereford or Poole.In the Australian context he is technically correct. The CDT's aren't part of SOCOMD-A, because they are part of the Navy...
However their maritime tactical operations role, the contribution they make to TAG-East and the training, equipment and taskings means that the units most definitely are a "Special Force".
That nonsense about what they are "like" is a load of tosh. The Incident Response Regiment and the Special Forces Signal Squadrons ARE a part of SOCOMD-A which means they very much ARE "Special Forces" they may not be badged SASR operators or Commando Operators but that doesn't mean they aren't special forces operators. Not in the slighest. It is their training, equipment, force structure, role, restricted entrance and overall capability that makes them "special".
Not any silly generic description of what a "special forces" unit is. "To seek out and close with the enemy to kill or capture him" is not the role of the SASR. THAT is the role of the infantry. It goes on a bit more, but maybe this means that SASR aren't really "special" either?
If you haven't successfully completed selection and earned the right to wear the cap badge you will never be considered a tier one asset. Don't confuse attached ranks
(regardless of role specifc training) with badged members. Anyone of the attached ranks caught 'walting' it up claiming to be fully SF members of Regiment are given a short sharp reality check.
Ahh Rik, once again hoisted by your own petard of attempted British Army overlay onto the Australian Army. SASR ‘Beret’ qualified (see different army, different lingo) signallers remain in 152 Sig Sqn unless rarely they transfer to a patrolman position (which means corps transfer to infantry). These are signallers that have successfully competed SASR selection and reinforcement training but whose role still remains communications support. The same goes for the Commando Sig Sqns. As to the Special Operations Engineer Regiment (aka Incident Response Regiment) they have their own selection or ‘SOF compatibility course’ before a combat engineer is allowed into this regiment. Like all Australian Army units the SASR, Commandos, SOER, etc have many personnel attached from other corps in support roles. But like the rest of the Army they continue to wear the uniform distinctions of their parent corps.
Ahh Abraham, you are soooooooooooo wrong. Please write to me off-line I will explain in more detail about my experience, including time spent in WA.
I know a few people from 152 and of course SASR so I don’t need your version of it to be informed as to how things work. Please note that there is a difference between Sigs posted straight to 152 who answer incoming phone calls and the SASR trained Sigs of 152.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
What Abraham is saying, is that none of the Signalmen are in the SASR itself, they are part of the 152 Signal Squadron. However, signallmen in that unit can and do go through the full training members and are 'beret' qualified. This means they are fully SASR and Special Ops qualified and trained personal.
One example of this would be Signaller Martin ‘Jock’ Wallace whose experiences fighting alongside US troops in operation Anaconda along with an SASR operator were written into a book by an Australian Author. The signalman in question was the first Australian recipient of the Medal for Gallantry since the vietnam war.
One example of this would be Signaller Martin ‘Jock’ Wallace whose experiences fighting alongside US troops in operation Anaconda along with an SASR operator were written into a book by an Australian Author. The signalman in question was the first Australian recipient of the Medal for Gallantry since the vietnam war.
152 Siq Sqn is a sub unit of SASR. But SASR has lots of non infantry corps, non SASR personnel attached to it. The point I’m trying to make is there are many fully SAS beret qualified sigs within 152 sig sqn that are dolled out to SASR elements per need. They are different to the normal non SOF trained sigs who provide the comms link between the SOF HQs.
Wallace wasn’t beret qualified. He was just a regular 152 sig whose job was to keep the SOF HQs connected. He just found himself on the ground in the middle of Op Anaconda and had to shoot his way out.
and here's the punchline.....
A
Aussie Digger
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Unless you know which ECN/ECN's a particular soldier has you do NOT know what a particular soldier is qualified to do.
Pretending otherwise is laughable and those who pretend to know what is what , without knowing this information is a complete Walt.
Enjoying telling people on the net what defines 'SF'.
I'm done.
I just thought I'd add, I saw an infantry captain tell a beret-qualled sigs captain from 152 that he wasn't special forces once. The sigs captain knocked him unconscious with one punch. I thought it was a particularly sharp and insightful rejoinder personally. Could fight that lad.
Bays certainly had operating limitations and the light weight hulls were never intended for 20 year plus life. For the Cape classl imagine a vessel of similar dimensions to the Armadale and then try to combine some traditionally naval functions with domestic enforcement (i.e fisheries) as well as collecting suspected illegal immigrants...... and then operate them under commercial certification. It is a big ask.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
Looks like there has been some trouble with the conversion of Success in Singapore. A contractor fell overboard and died.
Singaporean civilian falls of Navy ship HMAS Success and dies | Herald Sun
Singaporean civilian falls of Navy ship HMAS Success and dies | Herald Sun
t68
Well-Known Member
I was looking thru the Sydney maritime museum web site and came across this little virtual tour of the RAN past and present ships submarine and aircraft. Gives a you a little look inside, it’s not in depth but worth a look.
Royal Australian Navy - Virtual Fleet
Royal Australian Navy - Virtual Fleet
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