Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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StevoJH

The Bunker Group
I like the V names, but I cant see the RAN ever having another Voyager. Vampire, Vendetta, maybe a Victory or Victorious or even a Van Demen, there are plenty of possibilities.
Victory wont happen.

Vampire wont happen as long as the Daring class is still afloat.
 

Pusser01

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I don't have any issue with naming ships/subs after heros of the RAN, a couple more names for the future could be Stoker (CO of AE2) or Getting (CO of Canberra at Savo Island).

Armidale certainly derserves its current name, it was after all the ship that Teddy Sheehan fought for.

As for not using a name because a museum ship has it, Diamantina is currently floating in Brisbane (unless the drydock has been pumped out after the floods) while the current minehunter is in Sydney thus no reason why Vampire couldn't be used.

I wouldn't mind seeing some of our larger battles used for names, already have Tobruk, could see the same for Gallipoli, Long Tan, Kokoda and am sure there are others that are suitable.

As for the names of the LHD's I reckon the name of a state could be used, HMAS Tasmania sounds good :)
Cheers
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I wouldn't mind seeing some of our larger battles used for names, already have Tobruk, could see the same for Gallipoli, Long Tan, Kokoda and am sure there are others that are suitable.
they could be revived under a new "Battle Class"
 

Pusser01

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
they could be revived under a new "Battle Class"
Completely agree.

Although there has been no RAN VC's to date, there were four George Crosses to the RAN in WWII and one during the loss of the Voyager.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_George_Cross_recipients"]List of Australian George Cross recipients - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:George_Cross_Pk_Canberra.JPG" class="image"><img alt="An ellipse of orange pavers surrounded by a grey boarder, with a man-made rock structure on one side of the ellipse displaying plaques. On the other side are two bench seats. Grass surrounds the ellipse and trees can be seen in the background." src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/George_Cross_Pk_Canberra.JPG/300px-George_Cross_Pk_Canberra.JPG"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/b/ba/George_Cross_Pk_Canberra.JPG/300px-George_Cross_Pk_Canberra.JPG[/ame]

Cheers
 

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
maybe a Victory or Victorious or even a Van Demen, there are plenty of possibilities.
It doesn’t take much in these days of Google and Wikipedia to actually check and see what names starting with V the RAN has had before. Apart from the Scrap Iron Flotilla HMAS Vigilant is perhaps most significant being the first Australian designed and built warship. As to Victory and Victorious why name two ships after the one thing? Like naming the HMA Ships Happy and Happiness…

I wouldn't mind seeing some of our larger battles used for names, already have Tobruk, could see the same for Gallipoli, Long Tan, Kokoda and am sure there are others that are suitable.
The problem here is the RAN tends to name ITS ships for battles it fought in. There was no Navy presence at Long Tan or Kokoda. Anzac and Tobruk had Navy gloriously dieing in the bucket loads so earning their places on the honour roll.

Personally I think there are two areas where the Navy can get a fair bit of community mileage and sailor morale. Navy heroes and Australian animals. The Collins class has some great names except for the first two. So what if Collins and Farncomb where the RAN’s first two Admirals (not the first Australian Admirals) hardly inspiring stuff 50 years later. Waller, Dechaineux, Sheean and Rankin all fought their ships to their deaths. There are quite a few more similar people in the Navy’s history. With all the fuss over the lack of WWII VCs for the Navy ship names would be a far better award in perpetuity.

Australia also has lots of distinctive aggressive animals that would serve as good ship names. HMA Ships/Submarines White Pointer, Kambara*, Taipan, Irukandji, Blue Ring, Stonefish, Red Back, etc. * Aboriginal name for Salt Water Crocodile. More placid ships like the LHDs could be named for less aggressive but distinctive animals like HMA Ships Kangaroo and Wombat.

But none of this is going to compete with naming ships after towns, cities, suburbs or rivers. This is where people live and the community connection is gold for politicians and peace time Navy leaderships. For the pride in ship of the sailors serving onboard HMA Ships “Boondocks” I guess it could be worse. Public service post modernism could determine ship names and they could be named the Property of the Government of Australia Allocated to the Navy as a Ship (PGAANS) “A Fair and Equitable Place in the Global Community”.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
But none of this is going to compete with naming ships after towns, cities, suburbs or rivers. This is where people live and the community connection is gold for politicians and peace time Navy leaderships. For the pride in ship of the sailors serving onboard HMA Ships “Boondocks” I guess it could be worse. Public service post modernism could determine ship names and they could be named the Property of the Government of Australia Allocated to the Navy as a Ship (PGAANS) “A Fair and Equitable Place in the Global Community”.
Agree, it would be hard to change this tradition, naming ships after cities and towns around the country instills a sence of ownership and pride in the ship named after your city/town.

I like the idea of naming after the animals though ! Looks like Thales were on the right track :)
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
HMAS Platypus for the submarine base is a classic. Many of the RAN's bases are named after animals.

Thing is unless they are water based animals you might end up in conflict with the army or airforce. In casual conversation Wombat could mean a dozen different things.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
I think it might be a while before anyone enthusiastically adopts the name - HMAS Wombat...

:)
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
HMAS Barge Arse...

I like HMAS Canberra, because its expensive, full of brass, slow and flat, just like canberra.
 

RubiconNZ

The Wanderer
I think it might be a while before anyone enthusiastically adopts the name - HMAS Wombat...

:)
To strike fear in the heart of Australia's enemies
The Small Fluffy Mammal class:
HMAS Koala Bear (sic)
HMAS Bilby
HMAS Sugar Glider

Though HMAS Thalycine actually sounds alright :)
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
HMAS Tasmanian Devil
HMAS Tasmanian Tiger
HMAS Crocodile
HMAS Shark
HMAS Snake
HMAS Red Back/Spider

Those might be a bit better? :D
 

StoresBasher

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Bay Class bids are closing in a couple of weeks, with a decision next month.
We've been told the RAN manning numbers, not sure if I can make it public though.
 

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
If Largs was $350 million and another new build LHD was $800 million both were affordable what should the RAN choose? Also a large percentage would be spent within Australia on fitout supporting Australian industry and its economy.
YOUR 'NEW' LHD, is it being built in-country ? If so then spending your dollars in Oz is the best way to get value for money, as the cash hopefully comes back to the country, via taxes, employees spending their hard earned, as well as buying from Australian suppliers.

If it's being built in Spain, does it make sense to have it shipped back to Oz for fitting out, or actually buying from Australian suppliers, then have the goods shipped to Spain?

To be honest, if it's the Spanish option, I think it'd cost more purely because of the transport costs...

While Largs is quiet capable, the LHD is in another league. $350 is a lot of money, Nativia might be able to build us something (Galacia, mini LHD or LHD) with that money.

While it wouldn't be inservice tomorrow, it would be new build, probably more capable, exactly meeting Australian requirements (Largs would still need minor modifications anyway for the RAN hanger etc).
$350M is chicken feed ! If it costs that much to buy & modify the ship, it will be a WHOLE lot quicker than building from scratch (i'd estimate at less than 1 year, whereas new build you're talking nearer 3 years)

In the intrim Australia could lease a ferry/roro etc until something decent is finished. Even if the RAN had a ship, how are our helos going? What about our landing craft?
Good points, well made. However is a Ro-Ro the way to go ? Great for transporting veichles, but not ideal for providing support during disaster relief, unless you've got a functioning, safe harbour, but I think you're also asking the right questions about Helo's & Landing craft, after all, do you have them, are they ready to go, or are ya gonna have to spend MORE cash ??

If the UK is going to dick around on price, then fine, the RAN has other options, its not a ransom situation. They can then palm it off the the Canadians or something. Buying the only ship to come out of a yard before it closed and its follow on was finished at another yard seems like a can of worms. While new, its not like Australia was able to supervise the build etc.
I have a feeling that the UK Govt isn't 'dicking around' , but that the issues are closer to the Govt in the southern hemisphere ! :idea2

As for a can of worms, Hmmm...

I PERSONALLY, don't buy that ! Having worked on all 4 ships, as a sub-cotractor, during the build & testing phase, I know what happened at Swan's & the UK Govt made the best decision to give them to BAE to 'Finish them off'.:dance

(It should also be clarified that BAE was asked to assist in finishing off Largs while she was still at Swan's, otherwise she'd have been in a very similar state to Lyme Bay! But that discussion isn't for this fora (as it's off topic....)):argue

SA
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
However is a Ro-Ro the way to go
A Roro would be complimentary to the sealift we are getting and planning to get. If leased it would be easily disposed of. I only listed it as one of many options. We don't have to get Largs, there are other equally good options that already floating around at the moment (Fodure). Very comparible to the Largs. There was much rumor a while back it being a HSV some sort of 150m long tri or cat.

I PERSONALLY, don't buy that ! Having worked on all 4 ships, as a sub-cotractor, during the build & testing phase, I know what happened at Swan's & the UK Govt made the best decision to give them to BAE to 'Finish them off'.
That is proberly true.. Im not against Largs, its proberly the most capable, just against a rip off or having our hand forced into something we might regret.
 

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
A Roro would be complimentary to the sealift we are getting and planning to get. If leased it would be easily disposed of. I only listed it as one of many options. We don't have to get Largs, there are other equally good options that already floating around at the moment (Fodure). Very comparible to the Largs. There was much rumor a while back it being a HSV some sort of 150m long tri or cat.

.
HSV tens to be quite fragile and have a very limited deadweight meaning the available volume does not necessarly relate to carriage capacity in mass.

With cargo RO-RO's (as opposed to pure car and truck carriers) they really do need a port and in msot case one with a sloping ramp or compensating ramp to line up with the ships stern ramps. This will reduce ther utiltiy a bit but then ahve problay the best deck loadings.

Pure car and truck carriers have long ramps but have limited deck laodings and a high windage (so tugs may be requried for handling in some conditions).

Finally cargo RO-RO;s tend to used on a fixed trade and when the are sold on are oftern quite knackered. This option could lead to Charles Upam allover again.
 

StoresBasher

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
If it's being built in Spain, does it make sense to have it shipped back to Oz for fitting out, or actually buying from Australian suppliers, then have the goods shipped to Spain?

To be honest, if it's the Spanish option, I think it'd cost more purely because of the transport costs...

$350M is chicken feed ! If it costs that much to buy & modify the ship, it will be a WHOLE lot quicker than building from scratch (i'd estimate at less than 1 year, whereas new build you're talking nearer 3 years)

Good points, well made. However is a Ro-Ro the way to go ? Great for transporting veichles, but not ideal for providing support during disaster relief, unless you've got a functioning, safe harbour, but I think you're also asking the right questions about Helo's & Landing craft, after all, do you have them, are they ready to go, or are ya gonna have to spend MORE cash ??



I have a feeling that the UK Govt isn't 'dicking around' , but that the issues are closer to the Govt in the southern hemisphere ! :idea2


SA
Trouble is we don't have a few years, we need the Bay Class now, even if our bid is successful, we wouldn't see her in Australian waters until at least the end of the year. We'd be getting the sea-lift ship, a few years earlier, all be it a second hand, almost new vessel.

The UK government, isn't 'dicking' anyone around, seven countries have put bids in for Largs Bay, only they know if they will be swayed financially or politically to the winning countries bid.

We'll find out next month :D
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The UK government, isn't 'dicking' anyone around, seven countries have put bids in for Largs Bay, only they know if they will be swayed financially or politically to the winning countries bid.
absolutely. they are very very focused on getting rid of her. the dicking around will come from the successful bidder then negotiating the final reqs for release and transfer and what bits are coming with it.

if other countries put in a bid for largs and include other gear on their shopping list, then that would impact.

anyone who just wants a ship has the potential to lose out in the above scenario - unless they pay over and above
 
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