Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[agc33e]

I add about the comms in the s80, they are very capable, selected for the most modern german u boats, sat coms for underwater and fast speeds. Like other electronic equipment home made, like the radar of the spanish lhd, the lanza-n, that the land version was selected by the portuguese air force, and the electronic warfare, the regulus and the alderaban countermeasures system that i can say more things...

Another important point about jets in lhds or about carriers is that they can come under the horizont lane of hostile destroyers, appear suddenly, penetrate at maximum and shot 2 special missiles that when detect or programmed launches 2 torpedos each, with a missile speed of macth 2, and fast torpedos, a wave of jets could throow a wave of torpedos and engage easily target.

And if we speak about humanitarian mission 2 lhd plus 2 galicias ...

Regards.

 

[StevoJH]

RAN's ANZAC's don't always carry the full complement of Harpoon tubes openly. No need really and they are just exposed to the weather the entire time if they are...

Fair enough, makes me wonder if there will be more visitors over the next couple of weeks.

 

[Aussie Digger]

I add about the comms in the s80, they are very capable, selected for the most modern german u boats, sat coms for underwater and fast speeds. Like other electronic equipment home made, like the radar of the spanish lhd, the lanza-n, that the land version was selected by the portuguese air force, and the electronic warfare, the regulus and the alderaban countermeasures system that i can say more things...

Another important point about jets in lhds or about carriers is that they can come under the horizont lane of hostile destroyers, appear suddenly, penetrate at maximum and shot 2 special missiles that when detect or programmed launches 2 torpedos each, with a missile speed of macth 2, and fast torpedos, a wave of jets could throow a wave of torpedos and engage easily target.

And if we speak about humanitarian mission 2 lhd plus 2 galicias ...

Regards.

The Royal Australian Navy doesn't operate jets, nor does it have any plan to. No jets will be operated off our Canberra Class jets by the Australian defence force.

Ever.

 

[LancasterBomber]

Let me say that the spanish program on the fuel cells for the s80 submarine is very important, i mean fuell cells and aip of course, they are testing different solutions for a long time ago, different batteries, from utc (usa) or from other companies, spanish, from netherlands i think as well, they are testing different processing techniques, top research, also joinned with programs of top energetic big spanihs international companies. Navantia is waiting for the aip things to evolute, for having better aip.

Cheers.

And I dont want the s80 submarine.

Ever.

 

[icelord]

Saw a pair of ANZAC's at the Dock in Newy tonight when I was on my evening walk.

ANZAC and I think one of the Kiwi ones. No pennant number and a lighter shade of grey. Also no harpoon tubes.

Noticed that ANZAC only had two harpoon launch tubes as well, thought they normally had a pair each side?

Edit: I'm guessing it was Te Mana unless Te Kaha has received the newer "Stealth" casing for her 5".

HMAS ANZAC & HMNZS TE MANA are in Newcastle, stopped in friday to say g'day to some mates. From all accounts they are enjoying the brewery and garden City shopping centre(NOT Westfield!) so spending there pay check wisely

Fair enough, makes me wonder if there will be more visitors over the next couple of weeks.

As far as i know, or can say, there will be a couple of visits coming up, from mostly Huons at this stage. A few of the Eastern ships will be overseas so the rest will be visiting Australian Ports, and Newcastles always a good stop...especially when you get natives!

 

[StevoJH]

HMAS ANZAC & HMNZS TE MANA are in Newcastle, stopped in friday to say g'day to some mates. From all accounts they are enjoying the brewery and garden City shopping centre(NOT Westfield!) so spending there pay check wisely

Saw them walking to the Brewery last night.

Yeah, Kotara is a bit of a hike from the Harbour.....

Quick question, do they always keep the generators going in harbour? Or isnt there any power from shore at that dock?

 

[icelord]

Saw them walking to the Brewery last night.

Yeah, Kotara is a bit of a hike from the Harbour.....

Quick question, do they always keep the generators going in harbour? Or isnt there any power from shore at that dock?

Newcastles very basic. I think there is shore based power there, but they keep a full duty watch and can run on generators in ports, FFH are quiet good for that. FFG use a lot of power, even when in Min. Takes longer to get leave when getting shore powering FFGs over an FFH, where its not as big a concern...big advantage after long few weeks at sea!

 

[agc33e]

This is an Australian Navy thread. Stick to Australian Navy matters here. If you wish to discuss other non-related Navy matters, do it in an appropriate thread or create a new one.

You've been warned before. There won't be many more.

AD

 

[agc33e]

Better, but try talking about the Australian Navy...

AD

 

[agc33e]

Mister Aussie Digger or to who corresponds, the quality of a forum also is the flexibility to admit an amount of things out of australian navy but inside the navies, or potentially linked with the australian navy, pages in the forum are INFINITE, and forum are for everyone who respects the others, if they have to ignore post that are not interested in they can continue.

But i have my messages saved in my pc and i will modify them to fit the forum rules.....

 

[Aussie Digger]

Mister Aussie Digger or to who corresponds, the quality of a forum also is the flexibility to admit an amount of things out of australian navy but inside the navies, or potentially linked with the australian navy, pages in the forum are INFINITE, and forum are for everyone who respects the others, if they have to ignore post that are not interested in they can continue.

But i have my messages saved in my pc and i will modify them to fit the forum rules.....

Following the forum rules would be a nice start...

If you think the Royal Australian Navy should operate a particular system, please feel free to discuss it here, but discussion within particular threads ARE to be mostly about that topic.

If you want to discuss Russian torpedos or whatever, find a thread like that or start one. It's simple...

 

[agc33e]

Allow me do calculations with respect to a missil-torpedo ATTACKING THE AWD OR THE FLEET:
at 60 meters height the distance to horizont is 30 kms, 40 meters height the awd radar, plus 20 mts height the hostile jets coming, so imagine the jets launch the missiles at 30 kms, the essm defence recently uptaded to f100´s is match 2-3 speed, the speed of the hostile missiles say match 1.5, so a total of macht 4, 4000 kms per hour, but that wiht essm missiles achieved maximum speed, let´s say some 20 seconds, in this 20 seconds the incoming missiles have gone 8,3 kms, and the essm in those 20 seconds say 1km, so now the hostile missiles and the essm are at 20 kms, now use the combined speed of 4 match so they will encounter in 18 seconds, at 12 kms from the awd, so we have 4 torpedos from each jet, at 12 kms from the awd, now how fast and technologic are they and how many, and how stealth is the awd and how fast, they will say if they engage the target, but if the target it is not the awd, and it is not so stealth and agile and with countermeasures....it might complicate much the existance, imagine the torpedos not reach the awd but they continue their search of targets, i would expect some distance between the ships of the fleet...

So how we deal with this evolving in technology missil-torpedos:
-the hostile jets are coming at sea level so they are easy targets against our aircrafts that are patroling the perimeter at 30 kms from the awd with the impressive support of the sm2 and spy and aegis.
-also we can use the amphibious drones for a prealert on a perimeter at our horizont, equipped with radars, short range surface to air missiles, sonars, torpedos...also we can use amphibious drones to sacrifice them against the hostile torpedos wave, for the ones that engage one of our ships.


After that calculation i have to point out that in the real fire exercises done in san diego with the f100, a usa navy burke or like (a big and modern one), and a norwegian nanse, the f100 launched the missles 4 or 5 or 6 seconds before than the nansen, and 6 or 7 or 8 seconds before than the usa destroyer, which might be important for this mentioned type of attacks.

Further away we could think of a missiles that carriers other smaller missiles, then new smaller missiles at 12 km from the awd, enough for another essm (?) or ciws.

Thanks.

 

[StingrayOZ]

I think most people would like jets in the RAN, but know they aren't going to happen because the RAN and the ADF have more important matters to deal with.

We need 4 AWD, with 2 AWD you get greater coverage, redundancy, superior missile load and you also get to keep approaching missiles further away from intended targets (IE the LHD's etc). It also allows the AWD to take side shots and not head on shots with missiles (which I would imagine make it far easier to intercept). Given that one stray missile or even a few rounds from a gun could mission kill a AWD, having two would seem to be the minium for operations.

Also I don't see how the F-100 is going to launch missiles faster than a burke AFAIK the systems are simular in that regard, and early launching generally degrades accuracy (again AFAIK). Unless the F-100 is running newer faster computers or software or its able to get a radar lock faster from the superior radar location.

 

[hairyman]

The replacement for the Anzac's sounds like it will be very potent. If it had the same amount of missiles (48) as the F100, but no S3, it will have more S2 or 6, ESSM, and Cruise missiles. Not necessarily more of each, but more of whichever are deemed most important. I imagine one paired up with a AWD would be a good deterent.

 

[StevoJH]

Also I don't see how the F-100 is going to launch missiles faster than a burke AFAIK the systems are simular in that regard, and early launching generally degrades accuracy (again AFAIK). Unless the F-100 is running newer faster computers or software or its able to get a radar lock faster from the superior radar location.

F100 has 2 versus 3 illuminators, however the Spy-1D is placed a lot higher, giving a longer reaction time.

So it can launch its first missiles earlier, however after that it can handle less missiles in the terminal phase then a burke.

 

[StingrayOZ]

So it can launch its first missiles earlier, however after that it can handle less missiles in the terminal phase then a burke

Unless of course you have 2 AWD's. :

I read something that they will have Auspar panels fitted as well, can these act as illuminators as well? If the ANZAC II can act as illuminators as well I would imagine that would easily overcome this F-100 deficiet in illuminators. I hope it does, the more you look at it the more it seems they have a *REALLY* good idea on what to get for fleet units.

 

[Aussie Digger]

F100 has 2 versus 3 illuminators, however the Spy-1D is placed a lot higher, giving a longer reaction time.

So it can launch its first missiles earlier, however after that it can handle less missiles in the terminal phase then a burke.

SM-2 and ESSM don't require command guidance all the way to the target, just in the final phase of flight and AWD will most likely have SM-6 from day one and MAY not even use SM-2...

ESSM may even have the guidance system from AMRAAM by then and become ASSM (Active Sea Sparrow Missile) meaning command guidance will be mostly irrelevant (though of course those weapons will retain command guidance capability)...

I wonder if THAT was why Adm Shalders "came out of the AWD - NSC discussion smiling" so broadly...

 

[agc33e]

I past the youtube link with images of the real fire exercises of san diego, or wherever, the penultimate sequence of the video is the one with the 3 ships detecting the same target, you can see the f100 launching first and an american being like a bit surprised, jeje.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCxoF2qXd6c&feature=related]YouTube - España-EEUU sistema AEGIS F-100 clase Alvaro de Bazan[/ame]


It is not just the height of the f100, because the nansen is 30 meters or a bit more, like the awd is 40 a litte more i think, and the nansen launches before than the ddg mason having the radar below the ddg´s one, or very similar. Inside the navy forums page of defencetalk.com you have the thread from Pedro C about updates to the f100 where you have info about the aegis and parts that are not from the american provider of the aegis and the spy, some hardware and software of aegis and spy in the f100 is spanish, maybe not in the heart of the system but supporting it.

But i dont know if they launch an essm or an sm2.

 

[radar07]

can you prove that
- they all detect the same target
- they start firing at the same target
- they start firing as soon as it was possible by the radar/cms (the human factor can also slow down an interception)

imho this video can't prove it.
using similar radar systems, the highest radar will detect a low flying target first.

 

[agc33e]

Sorry this message is a mistake, the next one is the correct, any moderator ready to delete this? Cheers.