Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[DDG38]

Great shot of the recent RAN/USN/JMSDF task group sailing in the SCS. Interesting to note the the RAN has the most ships underway in this group, not something you see very often especially when working with the USN. Also a lot of AEGIS burning ! (Source : ADF Imagery Library)

 

[weegee]

Great shot of the recent RAN/USN/JMSDF task group sailing in the SCS. Interesting to note the the RAN has the most ships underway in this group, not something you see very often especially when working with the USN. Also a lot of AEGIS burning ! (Source : ADF Imagery Library)
View attachment 47516

It is a great shot!

Would be a very brave Chinese navy to try and engage that sort of combined firepower. Not even taking into account the aircraft from the carrier.
I wonder how many allied subs are lurking around too?

 

[Todjaeger]

It is a great shot!

Would be a very brave Chinese navy to try and engage that sort of combined firepower. Not even taking into account the aircraft from the carrier.
I wonder how many allied subs are lurking around too?

If the US CSG portion was in one of the typical arrangements, there would be one or two USN SSN's lurking about. Depending on where the image was taken and when, there could also have been RAN and/or JMSDF conventionals lurking too.

 

[DDG38]

It is a great shot!
Would be a very brave Chinese navy to try and engage that sort of combined firepower. Not even taking into account the aircraft from the carrier.
I wonder how many allied subs are lurking around too?

They're like sharks, if you're in the ocean, guaranteed there's at least one in the vicinity

 

[vonnoobie]

It is a great shot!

Would be a very brave Chinese navy to try and engage that sort of combined firepower. Not even taking into account the aircraft from the carrier.
I wonder how many allied subs are lurking around too?

Sorry to dampen the mood but not really. China has numbers and home ground advantage. When it becomes a full on multinational fleet including Indonesian, Singaporean, Malaysian, indian and Vietnamese ships along side the US, Japan and Australia then such a statement could be made but a single CBG against a Chinese fleet multiple times its size in that region alone.. no.

 

[DDG38]

Another great shot, this time HMAS Canberra with some offensive teeth parked on the flight deck. Great to see her ramping up her capabilities. (Source : ADF Imagery Library)

 

[aussienscale]

Details so far are a little thin, but stories now coming through that the RAN ships "encountered" the Chinese Navy (PLAN) on their way to meeting the US and Japanese ships for exercises last week near the Spratly's.

Australian warships encounter Chinese navy in contested South China Sea

The Chinese navy encounters Australian warships in the South China Sea during a voyage that sees them sail close to contested islands claimed by Beijing.

www.abc.net.au

Interesting times, if you could put it that way, indeed, guessing that China will be sending some ships to Rimpac for observational purposes

Cheers

Edit: Found this little clip of Canberra taking a couple of hits, just thought I would add as an edit rather than another post

 

[weegee]

Sorry to dampen the mood but not really. China has numbers and home ground advantage. When it becomes a full on multinational fleet including Indonesian, Singaporean, Malaysian, indian and Vietnamese ships along side the US, Japan and Australia then such a statement could be made but a single CBG against a Chinese fleet multiple times its size in that region alone.. no.

I agree but I was really speaking of maybe a couple of destroyers or even one of their cruiser sized coast guard vessels and how belligerent their navy has been over the last few years. I bet they would act differently to that task force than to a loan frigate.
Actually, on another note, China doesn't really seem to exercise that much with other nations does it? You do see sometimes they play with Russia Pakistan but they definitely don't play with friends as much as the USA.

 

[weegee]

Another great shot, this time HMAS Canberra with some offensive teeth parked on the flight deck. Great to see her ramping up her capabilities. (Source : ADF Imagery Library)
View attachment 47518

It's great to see the defence force getting some use out of the tigers. Especially on board the Canberra Class. Do we know if the prep time to get them stowed away has come down? Wasn't that one of the bugbears with the Tigers that they're not really marinised?

 

[Takao]

It's great to see the defence force getting some use out of the tigers. Especially on board the Canberra Class. Do we know if the prep time to get them stowed away has come down? Wasn't that one of the bugbears with the Tigers that they're not really marinised?

While not maranised a'la the AH-1, it never raised issues in my experience. The engineering and maintenance aspects were addressed quickly and smoothly - although that pre-dated FOCFT on the Canberra class. The French experience off Libya was very beneficial and showed no issues. There may be some medium- or long-term corrosion issues, with either or both fleets, but I'm not away (either way) of those.

 

[Antipode]

It's great to see the defence force getting some use out of the tigers. Especially on board the Canberra Class. Do we know if the prep time to get them stowed away has come down? Wasn't that one of the bugbears with the Tigers that they're not really marinised?

It could easily be a shot taken on the Spanish JC1 deck! Good for Australia, operating two of them for good.

Wonder why ADF doesn't organise a traditional marine corps. 1 Division's 2nd battalion, Royal Australian Regiment seems to be a de facto permanent amphibious force. Wouldn't optimise this logistic matters you mention?

Salud

 

[vonnoobie]

It could easily be a shot taken on the Spanish JC1 deck! Good for Australia, operating two of them for good.

Wonder why ADF doesn't organise a traditional marine corps. 1 Division's 2nd battalion, Royal Australian Regiment seems to be a de facto permanent amphibious force. Wouldn't optimise this logistic matters you mention?

Salud

I hope you mean marine element and not corps seeing as the former can be any size while the latter is by definition a force of several divisions and often 50,000+ strong in manpower... When comes down to it it's a numbers game. The ADF only has so many spare bodies so if we were to create a traditional marine force you would need a brigade strength at least which then completely throws out plan Beersheba. Only way to make that work is to take 1st div entirely marine. Awesome but then it is set up more to island hopping with a smaller armoured component not able to go toe to toe with a peer enemy dedicated land army. For Australia making 2RAR the marine element/professional force to tell the rest of the army to do in such situation is the best option available at present.

That all said any further discussion on this subject should take place in the ADF thread. Just because the marines catch a taxi to battle doesn't mean it belongs in a naval thread.

 

[alexsa]

Sorry to dampen the mood but not really. China has numbers and home ground advantage. When it becomes a full on multinational fleet including Indonesian, Singaporean, Malaysian, indian and Vietnamese ships along side the US, Japan and Australia then such a statement could be made but a single CBG against a Chinese fleet multiple times its size in that region alone.. no.

Suggest some care be taken in in such emphatic statements.

The area these vessel are operating in is the South China Sea. This is a long way from mainland China and would still required considerable effort to counter this task group noting the ferry range for land based aircraft. The Chinese ‘carriers’ (noting No2 does not yet appear to be fully operational) carry less organic air than one USN CVN. The are aircraft are also load restrained by the fact these are STOBAR carriers and aircraft either need to be launched light or tanked after take off to get the max load out and range. These carriers also lack the AEW capability of the USN carrier and I suggest there is a technology gap between the aircraft embarked and the weapons they carry.

Add to that you need to know where your enemy is.

The islands have the capability of hosting land based aircraft but would also be pummelled by SSM’s from the fleet noting the USN know perfectly well where they are and where things are located on these islands.

Add to this you have no idea where the US SSN’s are located. I suggest they could make an awful mess of any task group sailing from China with ill intent. China is working on ASW but my understanding (and this is dated) they are still well behind.

Finally close to China is Japan and any attempted prodding of a US/AUS/JN task force in the South China Sea is going to result in a response from there. China will need to cover that and possibly other areas too.

Battles are not necessarily fought by getting all your ships in one place and slugging it out (it was tried at Jutland to no real effect) rather it is protecting your assets and sea lands. China still has to do this if it wants to play rough. I would suggest the combination is quite a challenge to China ... especially as they are winning few friends at the moment.

I hope it does not happen ... nobody needs that. The current build up by ASEAN nations in response to China’s approach and the economic response to China may cause them issues. It should at least give the cause to pause.

 

[Antipode]

Thank you for your answer!

I ment a Marine Force then, thank you for clarification.

Spanish army is transforming most of its brigades to multirole profile as well. Estimated cost per brigade is set at around 1000 million USD. Wouldn't make sense to mess with this Beersheba plan just after implementing it I guess.

Thank you for this information! I will end this discussion here then, so sailors and soldiers don't get mixed.

Salud

 

[ngatimozart]

I hope it does not happen ... nobody needs that. The current build up by ASEAN nations in response to China’s approach and the economic response to China may cause them issues. It should at least give the cause to pause.

Looking through a western lens your statement would be logical and correct, however looking through a Chinese lens and more specifically the lens of the CCP, Central Military Commission and Politburo no, because it doesn't agree with their political construct of the situation and they would see it as politically and morally unacceptable to hesitate or pause.

 

[alexsa]

Looking through a western lens your statement would be logical and correct, however looking through a Chinese lens and more specifically the lens of the CCP, Central Military Commission and Politburo no, because it doesn't agree with their political construct of the situation and they would see it as politically and morally unacceptable to hesitate or pause.

I would agree on the military front as they certainly appear emboldened. But they are being hurt economically at the moment and there is an active movement not to trade with China. It does appear they have gone too hard too early meaning there is active rearmament going on and cheapest is no longer suitable in a lot of cases.

The CCP cannot afford to destroy their economy .... or cause their middle class to see their situation dramatically deteriorate as this may cause them issues.

At the moment total debt is above 300% of GDP and China is pushing internal lending to bolster the economy. This could make it worse. There is also doubt about the value of assets that underpin the current value of the economy and finally China have burned a lot of foreign reserves on the belt and road initiatives.

China's debt tops 300% of GDP, now 15% of global total: IIF

A key gauge of China's debt has topped 300% of gross domestic product, according to the Institute of International Finance (IIF), as Beijing steps up support for the cooling economy while trying to contain financial risks.

www.reuters.com

If they had quietly continued the Belt and Road and basically taking over the economy’s of small nations and gone hard on the ‘forceful approach’ after 5 or so more years .... I think we would have all been in trouble. COVID-19 and their attitude has seen a very significant change of attitude toward China.

It is certainly an uncertain world.

We seem to be straying from the topic so I will desist from further comment here. The China Tread in Geostrategic issues appears to the best place to continue this if desired.

 

[DDG38]

Yes back to the warries. Liked this shot of the Air Farce turning up for a photo op, given the number of aircraft flying over the TG this was obviously taken on a weekday between 0900 - 1600. (Source : ADF Imagery Library)

 

[Stampede]

Yes back to the warries. Liked this shot of the Air Farce turning up for a photo op, given the number of aircraft flying over the TG this was obviously taken on a weekday between 0900 - 1600. (Source : ADF Imagery Library)
View attachment 47519

Great to see HMAS Canberra carrying and launching these air defence assets in addition to the Tiger, Romeo and Taipan shown on the previous page

Pathetic aviation jokes aside.

The composition and deployment of this five ship task force will I suspect be a common RAN formation in the years ahead.
A very impressive site.

Regards S

 

[Redlands18]

Great to see HMAS Canberra carrying and launching these air defence assets in addition to the Tiger, Romeo and Taipan shown on the previous page

Pathetic aviation jokes aside.

The composition and deployment of this five ship task force will I suspect be a common RAN formation in the years ahead.
A very impressive site.

Regards S

With the increase in Battlefield Helicopters planned over the next few years, 16 SF Helos, 7 extra ARH and the Navy getting more Logistic Helicopters, either as a replacement for the MRH-90(go to Army) or as extra Birds. We may start seeing more and more deployments to the LHDs and for longer periods.
Lets be honest about it, the ADF has barely scratched the surface of the Aviation capabilities of the LHDs. I realise the Aviation side is a Crawl, Walk, Jog, Run process and we are probably just hitting the light Jog phase.

 

[ASSAIL]

SEA 1408 Ph2 has almost been completed with 6 of 8 Anzacs fitted with the Aust designed Broadband Sonar Advanced Processing System - BSAPS
The system uses the existing Spherion Hull mounted sonar and is fully integrated into 9LV CMS.
The main advantages of the new system are;
Significantly improved passive sonar performance,
Greater sonar integration into the CMS , and
Improved reliability

Upgraded frigate sonar rollout almost complete