Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[Raven22]

That's cool, next time I'm having a chat with one of the bid or project directors I'll tell them they were wrong when they told me the RAN were looking at a bigger gun than the 25mm Bushmaster on a Typhoon mount.

Define bigger gun. Up to 57mm? Up to 76mm? Up to 127mm? The point is the new gun, whatever the size, will be to replace the capability currently provided by the Armidales. The gun won't be for NGS, it won't be for ASuW, it will be to do the same thing the current 25mm gun does, only do it better.

Volk, I think you are deliberately concentrating on specifics at the expense of the greater point - Navy are buying a capability to replace the patrol boats, not a small surface combatant. People who are expecting the OPVs to be >2000 tonnes, with CIWS, SAMs, medium guns etc are going to be disappointed.

 

[gf0012-aust]

the OPV's are fundamentally designed for policing in green/grey water

they won't be blue water combatants

the calibre of the main guns is a clue to the principle operating philiosophy

 

[Volkodav]

Define bigger gun. Up to 57mm? Up to 76mm? Up to 127mm? The point is the new gun, whatever the size, will be to replace the capability currently provided by the Armidales. The gun won't be for NGS, it won't be for ASuW, it will be to do the same thing the current 25mm gun does, only do it better.

Volk, I think you are deliberately concentrating on specifics at the expense of the greater point - Navy are buying a capability to replace the patrol boats, not a small surface combatant. People who are expecting the OPVs to be >2000 tonnes, with CIWS, SAMs, medium guns etc are going to be disappointed.

Most likely 35 or 40mm with both 30 and 57mm as an outside chance, as I understand it 76mm is not being considered how ever, as I understand it, it is an option on two of the three designs.

PBs are and always have been combatants, not blue water combatants but vessels with a combat role when required. The Armidales were an anomaly, being specifically procured as a cheap and nasty but the previous generations were built to last.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Most likely 35 or 40mm with both 30 and 57mm as an outside chance, as I understand it 76mm is not being considered how ever, as I understand it, it is an option on two of the three designs.

PBs are and always have been combatants, not blue water combatants but vessels with a combat role when required. The Armidales were an anomaly, being specifically procured as a cheap and nasty but the previous generations were built to last.

Any chance of the OPV and land 400 agreeing on the same calibre? As 30mm/35mm/40mm seems to be in the mix. Would there be any useful benefit? are naval/land guns significantly different at this size?

 

[rand0m]

When is a decision on sea1180 due? When will the proposed specs be publically available?

 

[weegee]

I read somewhere that they were hoping for 3rd quarter of this year? Happy to be corrected if I am wrong. But seeing they are to start cutting steel next year you would imagine it will be this year for sure.

 

[ADMk2]

Any chance of the OPV and land 400 agreeing on the same calibre? As 30mm/35mm/40mm seems to be in the mix. Would there be any useful benefit? are naval/land guns significantly different at this size?

Navy and Arny did last time when they agreed on 25mm M242 Bushmaster guns for Typhoon and ASLAV respectively but I think this time might be different... For a start Army is still looking at whether it will chase 30mm or 35mm for LAND 400 and I'm not sure the decision timelines match up...

 

[Milne Bay]

Navy and Arny did last time when they agreed on 25mm M242 Bushmaster guns for Typhoon and ASLAV respectively but I think this time might be different... For a start Army is still looking at whether it will chase 30mm or 35mm for LAND 400 and I'm not sure the decision timelines match up...

Navy already has 30mm DS30B rapid fire cannon on the Huon class so there is already a logistics tail for this weapon.
Whether the army goes for 30mm or not is up in the air, but from what has been discussed and showcased for Land 400, 35mm seems to be the preferred option.
MB

 

[Volkodav]

Navy already has 30mm DS30B rapid fire cannon on the Huon class so there is already a logistics tail for this weapon.
Whether the army goes for 30mm or not is up in the air, but from what has been discussed and showcased for Land 400, 35mm seems to be the preferred option.
MB

No mater which calibre they select 25mm will still be around for quite a while as it is fitted to the DDGs and other platforms. I wouldn't be surprised if the MCMV life extension sees the 30mm KCA on the DS30B replaced with 25mm, either just the gun, or maybe the entire mount replaced with surplus Typhoons.

 

[Milne Bay]

No mater which calibre they select 25mm will still be around for quite a while as it is fitted to the DDGs and other platforms. I wouldn't be surprised if the MCMV life extension sees the 30mm KCA on the DS30B replaced with 25mm, either just the gun, or maybe the entire mount replaced with surplus Typhoons.

Actually that makes sense as the 30mm canons are orphans in the RAN at the moment - although the Tigers have 30mm I'm unsure if it is the same round.
MB

 

[ADMk2]

Navy already has 30mm DS30B rapid fire cannon on the Huon class so there is already a logistics tail for this weapon.
Whether the army goes for 30mm or not is up in the air, but from what has been discussed and showcased for Land 400, 35mm seems to be the preferred option.
MB

The DS30B on the Huon mounts the Oerlikon 30mm gun. That isn't on offer for LAND 400.

It is a different gun to that on the Tiger and will be different yet again to the LAND 400 solution...

3x completely different 30mm guns in service, long term? I don't see it as likely...

 

[Milne Bay]

The DS30B on the Huon mounts the Oerlikon 30mm gun. That isn't on offer for LAND 400.

It is a different gun to that on the Tiger and will be different yet again to the LAND 400 solution...

3x completely different 30mm guns in service, long term? I don't see it as likely...

Yeah - can't see it either.
Anyone want to buy some DS30B Oerlikon 30mm guns after the upgrade?
Of course the Tigers may also be for the chop.
The Apaches have 30mm and the Vipers 20mm I think.
Interesting times ahead
MB

 

[gf0012-aust]

Open Day in Cairns

Warship Open Day In Cairns

 

[hauritz]

Not new news ... but confirmation by Christopher Pyne that construction of the new frigates will commence in 2020 in spite of there being some industry doubts about this happening.

Can't help but think this might be foreshadowing the decision since the only design I think is likely to be ready to go by then will be the evolved Hobart. The story itself mentions that the FREMM would require some local modifications and the Type 26 is yet to be built. Pyne states that he wants to reduce as many of the lead times as much as possible to ensure construction commences in 2020 ... which once again would seem to favour the Spanish design.

The decision will be made the 2nd quarter of 2018.

Future Frigates Fleet will begin construction in 2020, says Christopher Pyne - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[John Fedup]

Interesting timeline, what is the closing date for the three bids? Canada's CSC bid closing date is June 2017 and if we can make a decision by second quarter 2018 I would be pleasantly surprised (actually frigging shocked!).

 

[Muar River]

Not new news ... but confirmation by Christopher Pyne that construction of the new frigates will commence in 2020 in spite of there being some industry doubts about this happening.

Can't help but think this might be foreshadowing the decision since the only design I think is likely to be ready to go by then will be the evolved Hobart. The story itself mentions that the FREMM would require some local modifications and the Type 26 is yet to be built. Pyne states that he wants to reduce as many of the lead times as much as possible to ensure construction commences in 2020 ... which once again would seem to favour the Spanish design.

The decision will be made the 2nd quarter of 2018.

Future Frigates Fleet will begin construction in 2020, says Christopher Pyne - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Thanks for the article. Interesting Pyne has hinted the award of the contract could occur within a few months. Interesting also that he refers the ships as destroyers.

 

[Massive]

the only design I think is likely to be ready to go by then will be the evolved Hobart. The story itself mentions that the FREMM would require some local modifications and the Type 26 is yet to be built.[/url]

Surely any FREMM modifications are no greater than those required to "Evolve" the Hobart class design?

Regards,

Massive

 

[alexsa]

Surely any FREMM modifications are no greater than those required to "Evolve" the Hobart class design?

Regards,

Massive

It really depends on what the RFT requires. If it is 48 cells then there will some work to do and it will not be minor. The impact of the mast and combat system should not be underestimated either.

The main advantage of the evolved 105 is the fact the manufacture of the hull modules is a known quantity and the production issues have been ironed out.

 

[t68]

It really depends on what the RFT requires. If it is 48 cells then there will some work to do and it will not be minor. The impact of the mast and combat system should not be underestimated either.

The main advantage of the evolved 105 is the fact the manufacture of the hull modules is a known quantity and the production issues have been ironed out.

With the time frame quoted should we discount the GCS and Freemm?

 

[ASSAIL]

With the time frame quoted should we discount the GCS and Freemm?

I would discount nothing. There is a multitude of factors in play apart from the pure capability ones. Politicians make the decisions which don't reflect service needs in many cases and there are countless examples to ponder.