Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
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When is a new vessel actually ready for constructive service?
Hunters , Mogami, SSNs
Look at these time frames and we get a true sense of our fleet’s capabilities today and our capability in transition for the decade ahead.
Hence attention to the fleet we have, not dreams of a distant future.
Cheers S
Agree
When is a new vessel actually ready for constructive service?
Hunters , Mogami, SSNs
Look at these time frames and we get a true sense of our fleet’s capabilities today and our capability in transition for the decade ahead.
Hence attention to the fleet we have, not dreams of a distant future.
Cheers S
Maybe. A bex and a lie down.
I just think we may want to get our ducks lined up as best as we can before the 2028 US election. Not that it is itself the critical juncture, but several things are coalescing at the same time. At that time, getting anything coherent out of the US is unlikely. For a number of reasons anything being built after 2028 may become much harder and slower, even in country. I guess my vignette is, what would we do if we absolutely knew that the end of 2028 global trade ceases, there is huge global disorder and America withdraws from Asia. Remove the emotion and the scepticism and treat it just like a thinktank style proposition.
I am also not so worried about range of any later Arafura. We would have 4-6 long range Arafura.
But as we know. Changing from building one type of ship to another, takes time. We are already 6 deep into the Arafuras, We are at the pointy end of efficiency and productivity. The cost of 2 isn't the same as the cost of the first 2. It isn't about weapons either.
A 10m size push can do wonders for a platform, compare the Flight 1 F110 and Flight 2 110. for a 5m size increase.
One of the things about the Arafuras, if we do over build, I think they would be a relatively easy ship to hand off to one of our larger friendly neighbours. This is not some ultra complex destroyer covered in ITAR. If we wanted to gift it to Fiji or PNG or Timor or Philippines or Brunei, that would be possible. Perhaps some costs would fall to us at least in part, but manning etc is possible.
Looks like Japan will have 4 Sakura class OPVs in service before we have 3 Arafuras.
2 years to build and put into service 4 95m 1,950t (Sakura)OPVs.
vs
9 years before we see 4 80m 1,650t (Arafura)OPVs in service and 5x the cost.
Sakura class Sea trials (also has a 30mm MG from the beginning)
2 years to build and put into service 4 95m 1,950t (Sakura)OPVs.
vs
9 years before we see 4 80m 1,650t (Arafura)OPVs in service and 5x the cost.
Sakura class Sea trials (also has a 30mm MG from the beginning)
Whilst it doesn't excuse it (Government should order more ships more regularly instead...) our "drum beat" is designed to deliver continuous naval shipbuilding with the limited number of ships we order, rather than being a timely and efficient ship-builder.
They are prepared to wear the cost, political fallout and capability impacts of ships taking forever for those jobs.
Because those jobs are the REALLY important thing afterall...
I’ll try and keep the geo politics to a minimum but we are in a very dynamic environment of political change. Long term norms of stability and constants cannot be taken for granted.
I do believe we are at a global crossroads.
A major conflict in Europe, the Middle East and sabre rattling in northern Asia.
Nations are adjusting their allegiances for their own self preservation and on this international chessboard. It’s hard to know where it’s all going..
I’m open that there might be a bright future for all but history shows that rapid change leads to unfortunate consequences.
Escalations can happen very quickly.
We need a Royal Australian Navy that can cater for an abroad range of challenging contingencies.
We need that navy today and we need that navy as we transition to our newer and bigger fleet.
This is a big challenge ,but it starts with recognition of the world we are in today
22/08/2026.
No more pushing the can down the road.
We need prompt action not denial.
So yes I probably need a bex and a lie down as well but that’s my take on reading the tea leaves.
Cheers S
Also, building the hulls is unlikely to be the limiting factor if you throw the cheque book at the problem.
There are quite a few places on the east coast that would probably able to build modules, and some of them could assemble vessels.
I’m thinking places like Harwood Marine, Birdon Port Macquarie, CIVMEC Tomago etc.
That’s ignoring land based heavy engineering firms that could build modules as long as you keep them small enough to road transport.
The limiting factors are going to be the components that we don’t manufacture onshore.
There are quite a few places on the east coast that would probably able to build modules, and some of them could assemble vessels.
I’m thinking places like Harwood Marine, Birdon Port Macquarie, CIVMEC Tomago etc.
That’s ignoring land based heavy engineering firms that could build modules as long as you keep them small enough to road transport.
The limiting factors are going to be the components that we don’t manufacture onshore.
To your point, any vessel is going to need at least a basic combat system and some form of defence missile (guns will only go so far). If we were to hypothetically loose access to the American SM, ESSM and AIM familes of missiles, which already have long lead times into next decade, what could we muster as a replacement.
We might have a rocket engine capability within say two years, we already make a significant number of parts for the ESSM, and we have reasonable explosives capability, but I think we lack any guidance, fuse and targeting depth. If we found ourselves at the wrong end of a supply shortfall could we pull something together for the missing components?
In regards to the combat system, how much of the 9LV or the Kongsberg NASAM systems are actually made or could be made in Australia?
It would be extremely useful to be able to domestically produce ESSM and AMRAAM including all component parts, even if only in relatively small numbers.
There is probably something to be said for integrating CAMM/CAMM-ER, MICA-VL, AMRAAM-ER and maybe even Aster into future combatants if possible even if they are not planned to be purchased in numbers.
Yes it will cost, but it gives options.
Does CEA actually produce their own T/R modules for example? Or do they order them from overseas and assemble into the final product?
I also highly doubt any of the IC's for 9LV, NASAM's etc are possible to produce locally at this time.
There is probably something to be said for integrating CAMM/CAMM-ER, MICA-VL, AMRAAM-ER and maybe even Aster into future combatants if possible even if they are not planned to be purchased in numbers.
Yes it will cost, but it gives options.
Does CEA actually produce their own T/R modules for example? Or do they order them from overseas and assemble into the final product?
I also highly doubt any of the IC's for 9LV, NASAM's etc are possible to produce locally at this time.
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Interesting. A beefed up Hobart Class lookalike
Given that the Russians and Ukranians seem to be able to make missiles from the 1980's scrap bin and washing machine parts, I would have thought we could have moved faster.