Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
If there was a capacity short fall.. Oh no, we buy more japanese mogamis and push the inital mogami build back. This may also allow some sort of Australianisation to happen on the first locally built mogamis.

I worry that we don't see enough action on the local Mogami build side, there should be contracts being issued frantically, announcements tooling up, etc. Maybe its just me.
Contracts are only just starting for the initial build in Japan. These things take time in defence land…

 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
More " MADE IN JAPAN" ships you think?
Don’t want to be too negative but big projects over many years do tend to change with time.
A look at all the navy builds over the last four decades show how things can change from idea, concept, implementation and final ship / boat off the production line.
Often not necessarily a bad thing.
Most here on DT have an understanding of what we have produced and how the final numbers have eventuated.

The West should be able to handle the landing craft builds.
A sophisticated frigate nudging 5000t I feel is ambitious for the sort of timetable envisioned coupled with the military and civilian infrastructure/ manufacturing demands to be found in Perth

So yes I can see some extra builds for Japan or alternatively a late production outcome.

Cheers S
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Contracts are only just starting for the initial build in Japan. These things take time in defence land…
Yes, but there should be a sense of urgency. This isn't a regular acquisition program happening according to decades of planning, and we would be happy with a decade of IOC. But you are right, this isn't a snap your fingers and contracts and agreements just appear, at a greenfields site, with new primes never built in Australia before, building a type of ship we have never built before, partnered country with minimal military export experience. The weakness and risk is probably mostly in the contracts and agreements.

These are last moments type of stuff. They should be real priority. Every day we get something done is an important victory that could save lives, every weld every rivet asserts Australia's sovereignty and national security. We need to shift our approach. Our mindset.

Which is why perhaps I think additional Japanese built frigates are still likely to happen. Even if everything local is a total dream run, ahead of schedules, under budget, we won't be building them fast enough. We are already at the point of decommissioning Anzacs. We need to preserve crews, we need to build deployable capability, 6 Mogami's can maybe do the work of 8 Anzacs. But 2 Mogami's can't do the work of 4 Anzacs, and the crews will just dissipate and we will be starting from nothing, again. Timing and numbers are critical.

We should be billeting out sailors onto the Mogami's (and other Japanese surface ships) as much as we can now.

With the initial Mogami build I definitely think there was a feeling of testing the waters on how people felt. The reaction I think has shown that the Mogami's were probably the right decision, and people can see the world is a less secure less certain place. Bumping up numbers on an existing program later on seems very sensible.
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Contracts are only just starting for the initial build in Japan. These things take time in defence land…

Origionally, it was planned to have all 11 built by 2040 if remember correctly.
I can't see how Henderson yard could build 8 Frigates between 2031 and 2040 when they will still be building LCH's until 2038.
Meanwhile the 1st of class Hunter will have taken 10 years from 1st steel cut to entering service. I expect the 1st Australian Built Mogami won't take as long, but still longer than the 1st Japanese build. I am just trying to understand when all 11 will be built, and I really don't think 2040 is realistic.
The last ANZAC is scheduled to be paid off by 2043. The 3rd Hunter should enter service around 2036.
 
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Stampede

Well-Known Member
Yes, but there should be a sense of urgency. This isn't a regular acquisition program happening according to decades of planning, and we would be happy with a decade of IOC. But you are right, this isn't a snap your fingers and contracts and agreements just appear, at a greenfields site, with new primes never built in Australia before, building a type of ship we have never built before, partnered country with minimal military export experience. The weakness and risk is probably mostly in the contracts and agreements.

These are last moments type of stuff. They should be real priority. Every day we get something done is an important victory that could save lives, every weld every rivet asserts Australia's sovereignty and national security. We need to shift our approach. Our mindset.

Which is why perhaps I think additional Japanese built frigates are still likely to happen. Even if everything local is a total dream run, ahead of schedules, under budget, we won't be building them fast enough. We are already at the point of decommissioning Anzacs. We need to preserve crews, we need to build deployable capability, 6 Mogami's can maybe do the work of 8 Anzacs. But 2 Mogami's can't do the work of 4 Anzacs, and the crews will just dissipate and we will be starting from nothing, again. Timing and numbers are critical.

We should be billeting out sailors onto the Mogami's (and other Japanese surface ships) as much as we can now.

With the initial Mogami build I definitely think there was a feeling of testing the waters on how people felt. The reaction I think has shown that the Mogami's were probably the right decision, and people can see the world is a less secure less certain place. Bumping up numbers on an existing program later on seems very sensible.
StingrayOZ I don’t want to discount the urgency or the importance of the Mogami build.
A prudent choice, but still a challenge to get viable platform numbers in the water asap.

As mentioned, the ANZACs are starting to retire.

Cheers S
 

Richo99

Active Member
Instead of tranches of 3+4+4, I can see it changing to 5+3+3. 2 extra ships quickly from a hot Japanese line, more time for WA to set up a shipyard, and possibly nearing the mid/ end of the Hunter build to access trained workers (this one is possibly a bit questionable). This would probably give 10+ modern combatants by 2036 (3 x Hobart, 2+ x Hunter, 5 x Mogami). Otherwise either numbers drop, or Anzacs get really old.
I think an extended Japanese build is essential...
 

iambuzzard

Well-Known Member
More " MADE IN JAPAN" ships you think?
Possibly. As I have mentioned before we need to follow their script, don't stop at 11 but adapt and evolve following batches. We need a continuous production that never stops . We must get out of this mindset of finite numbers with single contracts. We need follow on production like Japan. The USN have kept pumping out Arleigh Burkes but they are a gold plated ship with the appropriate high cost. We need to work on economy of scale and a continuous production line will reduce the cost per unit as we won't be reinventing the wheel, so to speak.
 
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