Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

[iambuzzard]

Interesting update. It makes better sense, I don't know why they didn't start with this. If we had one boat with twice the life of the other two it would mean that we would have a single orphan asset for about 15 years. That's a logistical nightmare. This enables a simpler transition to the eventual AUKUS boats.

I am interested in the payload agreement. I imagine this is very secret squirrel stuff, however we have been discussing what might form the future payload for a Ghost Shark, and it looks like this is starting to be shaped. I wounder how central Anduril are to this.

Anduril got a commitment for the Barracuda missiles from the US Government recently, I wonder if their Copperhead torpedo could be in the mix.

Also and most importantly, why did Anduril name their air product after a fish, and their undersea product after a land snake. This is doing my head in.

Mine too, Sammy

 

[Going Boeing]

Having the 3 Block 4 Virginia’s makes sense as they should be approaching retirement as No’s 6, 7 & 8 SSN AUKUS boats are available from Osborne.

I could not understand the plan to have the 3rd Virginia as a new build as it would still have approximately 15 years of life left when the 8th SSN AUKUS becomes available.

 

[iambuzzard]

Having the 3 Block 4 Virginia’s makes sense as they should be approaching retirement as No’s 6, 7 & 8 SSN AUKUS boats are available from Osborne.

I could not understand the plan to have the 3rd Virginia as a new build as it would still have approximately 15 years of life left when the 8th SSN AUKUS becomes available.

It's also commonality of all three boats. Crew training and transfers between them will be simplified.

 

[StevoJH]

Has it been confirmed that the RAN will still be getting Block IV Virginia class?

There is no reference in the official statement by the Defence Minister as to what Submarines will be transferred.

Hopefully we don’t end up with Block I hulls, they are not much newer then Collin’s and even if the RAN can get 40 years out of the hulls they will start to age out in the late 2040’s.

 

[iambuzzard]

Has it been confirmed that the RAN will still be getting Block IV Virginia class?

There is no reference in the official statement by the Defence Minister as to what Submarines will be transferred.

Hopefully we don’t end up with Block I hulls, they are not much newer then Collin’s and even if the RAN can get 40 years out of the hulls they will start to age out in the late 2040’s.

I think it was clearly stated all three will be Block IV.

 

[StevoJH]

I think it was clearly stated all three will be Block IV.

The written joint statement released by the Defence Minister refers only to Virginia Class Submarines, it does not mention age or specification.

I haven't looked for any video statements, so it may have been mentioned there.

Would be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Going Boeing]

Has it been confirmed that the RAN will still be getting Block IV Virginia class?

There is no reference in the official statement by the Defence Minister as to what Submarines will be transferred.

Hopefully we don’t end up with Block I hulls, they are not much newer then Collin’s and even if the RAN can get 40 years out of the hulls they will start to age out in the late 2040’s.

Previous releases indicated that the first 2 Virginia’s will be Block 4 as they are required to have 20 years of service life available when they enter service in 2032 & 2034 - the earlier blocks would not have enough life considering the reactor fuel is designed to last 33 years.

The Block 4’s are desirable as they have lower maintenance requirements than the earlier Blocks which suits RAN operations.

 

[StevoJH]

Previous releases indicated that the first 2 Virginia’s will be Block 4 as they are required to have 20 years of service life available when they enter service in 2032 & 2034 - the earlier blocks would not have enough life considering the reactor fuel is designed to last 33 years.

The Block 4’s are desirable as they have lower maintenance requirements than the earlier Blocks which suits RAN operations.

That was the original plan, and I'm hoping that it is still the plan.

However I find it concerning that there has been no recent detail on the matter.

 

[Lolcake]

Well that's an interesting change. All 3 virginia's are to be used boats, instead of the previously planned 2x used block 4 + 1x new (assumed) block 6 without the block 5 extra vls. It does say "proposed" so maybe not yet finalised.

That would reduce the amount of sea days taken from the american fleet too.


Ref: https://www.minister.defence.gov.au...int-statement-aukus-defence-ministers-meeting

Ideally the final 3 block IVs

That was the original plan, and I'm hoping that it is still the plan.

However I find it concerning that there has been no recent detail on the matter.

It will be the block ivs... by the time the first sub enters service the block 3s wont have enough life left to make the ssn aukus introduction worthwhile

 

[Massive]

Our subs come out of Adelaide from their refits looking brand new and in a good material state. I wouldn't be worried about the age and capabilities of the platforms.

Thanks Lofty,

Question on LOTE - the scope appears to have flexed a lot and in some sense is not locked down.

Is your impression that scope will be determined as they work through the process with HMAS Farncomb or is it set when the process begins?

Thanks in advance,

Massive

 

[Bob53]

I very much doubt that the average Australian knows any more than “AUKUS is about us getting nuclear submarines and it is going to cost a lot.” Unless they are interested in Defence, a small proportion of the population, they’re likely to not have a clue about numbers or timelines. The information is available, but I don’t think that many really want or care to know; and the media reflects that.

has anyone ever explained where the $300 billion +is going.,I still don’t follow. It looks like about $30 billion of that is the subs themselves.

 

[John Fedup]

has anyone ever explained where the $300 billion +is going.,I still don’t follow. It looks like about $30 billion of that is the subs themselves.

Well I assume that the $270 billion is operation cost (including crew) over the life span of an AUKUS submarine(35 years) for 8 of them. If the amount covers expected inflation and decommissioning, not an unreasonable number. Might also include basing infrastructure and the initial investment for the production setup.

 

[H_K]

Ideally the final 3 block IVs

Not likely. My bet is the RAN transfers will align with major maintenance periods. The RAN could then pay for the overhaul and in exchange get a freshly maintained sub with a full ~6 year operating cycle ahead of it. That will also allow any RAN-specific modifications or removal of any USN equipment to be done while in dock.

So looking at the Block IV maintenance cycle (pic below) that means the RAN most likely get their subs after the first 12-month EDSRA docking period (after ~8.3 years / 100 months from initial sea trials). My bet would be on SSN 775 795, the 4th Block IV which started sea trials in mid-2023 and will therefore be due to finish its EDSRA in late 2032. At that point it should have ~23 years service life remaining (~2056), which lines up nicely with later AUKUS SSN deliveries.

Source: https://calhoun.nps.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/a3d1d2fb-d815-4c1f-a0dc-e3a7fbe67812/content

If on the other hand the US decides to hand over older Virginias, then that would likely be a sub coming out of its mid-life depot modernization period (DMP). Perhaps SSN 783 (the last Block II) which came out of its first EDSRA in 2023 and is therefore due to finish its DMP in 2032. Or it could be an early Block III, possibly SSN 785, which will wrap up its EDSRA in 2026 and is due to finish its DMP in 2034. But a sub coming out of DMP will only have ~17.5 years service life remaining (~2050) which would not be enough to bridge with the later AUKUS SSN deliveries (unless the RAN were to limit sea time in order to extend the reactor life).

 

[hauritz]

Makes sense. Even if it wasn't on a maintenance cycle I imagine the US wouldn't just hand over a Virginia completely intact. They would want to swap out weapons and remove sensitive material and equipment. The best option would be to strip out the submarine completely and allow Australia to fit it out anyway they wanted. Given that the US already has a backlog of maintenance work on its Virginias I can see them more or less just handing over an already docked Virginia and letting do all the modernisation.

This does raise one question in my mind though. If it takes 12 to 15 months to do this, probably longer for Australia since we haven't done this before, would it mean the first Virginia would need to be delivered around 2030 in order for it to be in service by 2032?

 

[Going Boeing]

One aspect to the Virginia class acquisition that hasn’t been discussed but is likely to be a factor behind changing the 3rd boat is that the US is trying to build up conventional missile launch capacity to replace the 4 Ohio class SSGN’s whose retirement is imminent.

The majority of the Block 5 & 6 Virginia’s are being built with the Payload Module (4 VPT’s) so, if the RAN was to get a new standard size Virginia for 2038 delivery, that would take up a slot where they could be building a VPM equiped boat to restore USN capability. I can understand why the US wanted to sell a non VPM equiped used Block 4 in lieu of a new build.


Courtesy of TWZ.com

 

[Reptilia]

Navy commissions newest warship HMAS Eyre - Civmec

HMAS Eyre is the second Arafura class offshore patrol vessel (OPV) to enter service and joins her sister ship HMAS Arafura. The Arafura class OPVs are modern 80 m and 1,625 tonne multi-role ships that will support the Royal Australian Navy to deliver enhanced maritime security, strengthen...

www.civmec.com.au

-NUSHIP Pilbara, the first of class to be built in Western Australia, was launched in October 2025 and has recently commenced harbour acceptance trials. NUSHIPs Gippsland, Illawarra and Carpentaria are in various stages of construction and outfitting within Civmec’s main assembly hall.

CDI Arafura class model at IODS 2026 now has the 40mm main gun instead of the previous 57mm.

 

[Murse]

Whats next for Civmec after the Arafura builds are complete?

 

[iambuzzard]

Whats next for Civmec after the Arafura builds are complete?

Good question.

 

[Reptilia]

Whats next for Civmec after the Arafura builds are complete?

Nothing unless Austal allow them to build blocks for LCH or more opvs(replacing Capes) are ordered or upgraded.

GPF, ocean protector replacement(maybe reliant + guidance also) + Ocean Shield (ABF)? or salvage + repair are the only options left.
Other possibilities are more supply ships but probably better to buy those off the shelf ftm. Sub tender unlikely.

 

[spoz]

Makes sense. Even if it wasn't on a maintenance cycle I imagine the US wouldn't just hand over a Virginia completely intact. They would want to swap out weapons and remove sensitive material and equipment. The best option would be to strip out the submarine completely and allow Australia to fit it out anyway they wanted. Given that the US already has a backlog of maintenance work on its Virginias I can see them more or less just handing over an already docked Virginia and letting do all the modernisation.

This does raise one question in my mind though. If it takes 12 to 15 months to do this, probably longer for Australia since we haven't done this before, would it mean the first Virginia would need to be delivered around 2030 in order for it to be in service by 2032?

The combat system in Virginia, at least the ones without the VPM, is virtually identical to that in a Collins. It wouldn’t make that much sense to strip it out, only to replace it.

Things that might be replaced are the various classified LANs as each nation has its own. Other that that, and possibly some crypto stuff, I’m not sure what you would want to replace.