iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Maybe they were only allowed wet lettuce leaves. Yes Moderators, I'm angry, but the people mean't to protect us apparently aren't allowed to protect themselves.
Sorry, rant over.
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
- Thread starter OPSSG
- Start date
Sorry, rant over.
Normally engagement rules in this type of situation (military and civilian) advise to step back. Stray bullets from an AK47 will pierce windows and thinner superstructure sections. If it is a real event, that appears what the CO elected to do. Protect his crew.
The patrol boat would have called in support. Any form of aerial surveilance would have tracked them to their destination. The smuggler would have been monitored and then picked up on the shore in a manner that did not risk people being injured.
I should note the only advantage a smuggler or hostile vessel in Australian waters has is covalence. Once they are spotted, they have very few options to recover.
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Send over an F35 or a Super Hornet. One quick burst will finish the argument. Self defence. I have no sympathy for them.
Although I do mot like the thought of putting or service people at risk, each situation has to acessed on its own merit
What if the tobacco smugglers were doing double duty as people smugglers? Just blow the extra people to?
There may be many reasons that posable innocents may be onboard.
Think of the headlines if the the ADF blows up women and children.
This is another reason that all RAN/ Boarder Force vessels need drones, to be able to back off and still control the situation.
What if the tobacco smugglers were doing double duty as people smugglers? Just blow the extra people to?
There may be many reasons that posable innocents may be onboard.
Think of the headlines if the the ADF blows up women and children.
This is another reason that all RAN/ Boarder Force vessels need drones, to be able to back off and still control the situation.
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Why would you need a medium cal gun or missiles to deal with a tobacco boat carrying folks with AKs? I've friends on board the UK equivalent ships, namely the River batch 1 and 2 - they usually have a pair of GPMGs on the bridge wings in any contact. That's going to be a short engagement I suspect.
You know what? The head lines would be terrible for a few days, until another virus reared its head, or more reporting on Iran, or cruelty to cattle (4 corners) or youth detention (Don dale, 4 Corners) is aired to change the subject, in the mean time, people start to think twice about illegal entry into Australia....
Murse
Member
Deterrence is probably the aim of my post really, but I'm concerned at the lack of aggression. Maybe I'm just too Army...
If the standing order is to disengage and watch from above, why arm them with 50cal or even put them to sea?
I feel a bit like Buzzard...
iambuzzard
Well-Known Member
Yeah, Murse. I had family who served in New Guinea during WWII and friends who have served in all three arms of the Defence Forces in the last few decades including the Middle East, and as far as I'm concerned when they shoot at you with AK-47s they sure as hell aren't carrying refugees. I'm not aware of any seized refugee boats carrying weapons. The serving members on here will know better, but when someone shoots at you with a machine gun he's protecting something more valuable than mere human beings. I understand the C/O protecting his crew but this was a major red line they crossed and a lesson must be dished out to stop this becoming a common occurrence. If not, Defence personnel will die.
The Daily Telegraph and NT News have run with the news and Albo stated they were fired on I suspect it's legit. Cheers,
Buzzard.
Look what Donald Trump does with smuggling boats "obliterate them" I am concerned that our patrol boats (navy and boarder force) are too lightly armed for the modern-day threats, pirates can have shoulder armed missiles now, we can't compete with a couple of .50 cals or a 25mm bushy.
No wonder they did a retreat and ran away; our forces probably couldn't risk an engagement without the risk of being blown up. Not really a Defense FORCE if we let drug smugglers intimidate our sovereignty
devo99
Well-Known Member
Border Force sit in an interesting spot in terms of what kind of weapons they're allowed to use as an agency. Think more police and less Navy.
Wouldn't be surprised if smugglers learnt to tell the difference between which boats will shoot back. Maybe it's time to start qualifying ABF on those .50s or better yet split the maritime constabulary needs off from the agency still working primarily within the purview of customs services under the Deptartment of Home Affairs.
Regarding the actual story, reads like a case of Chinese whispers to me, nobody knows where it came from.
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IF the story is true, then they claim it was an RAN boat. The Capes only have 50 cals; and they are built to modified merchant standards. Describing them as “warships” Is a stretch.
But the Bushmaster 25mm could be mounted and would at least give them some stand off. The Arafuras need 40mm, the Bofor now I suppose, as was originally planned.
But the Bushmaster 25mm could be mounted and would at least give them some stand off. The Arafuras need 40mm, the Bofor now I suppose, as was originally planned.
Please, let's not start justifying ANYTHING, on a 'well Trump does it' basis.
Naval EOS R400 RWS (as selected for lcm) with m230 30mm. Light, local, cheap (ish) overmatch on smugglers. Also rw uav for standoff monitoring.... qs vector maybe. And maybe switchblade 300 from a mpl launcher. I don't think any of that is unreasonable or undoable
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Takao
The Bunker Group
This was one of the selling points of the LCS. It's also a selling point of STANFLEX. And, ironically, Boxer
In none of these cases has reality matched promise. These pods are highly unlikely to be built, the will cost a bunch in making and in storage when not fitted to a ship. Just use them for something, be it VLS, one of those ideas, whatever.
Operation Maritime Protector is certainly a real operation, just not a Defence one.
From the Herald Sun. Note there is not one single reference to a source for this story, and 5 "reporters" listed as authors. File this under gossint until it can be independently verified.
"Suspected tobacco smugglers fire at Australian Border Force
Suspected tobacco smugglers brazenly shooting at an Australian Border Force patrol boat has sparked serious concerns about the increased threat to Australia from organised crime.
Harry Brill, Rory Williams, Mark Morri, Stephen Drill and Jake McCallum
June 11, 2026 - 12:10PM
Suspected tobacco smugglers have brazenly shot at a patrol boat involved in an Australian Border Force operation off the coast of Indonesia.
The alleged couriers opened fire when they were being monitored by the Australian Border Force as part of Operation Maritime Protector.
The vessel attacked was understood to be a Royal Australian Navy patrol boat that was on secondment to the ABF.
The crew on the patrol boat was forced to take evasive action.
Questions have been raised about why the patrol boat disengaged from the smugglers who were in small fast boats, believed to only be carrying automatic weapons.
The incident, which happened last week off the coast of Indonesia, has raised serious concerns about the increased threat to Australia from organised crime.
The suspects were spotted ferrying illicit tobacco from a mothership that was stopped in open waters by personnel on Operation Maritime Protector.
That operation includes personnel from the Australian Border Force, the Australian Defence Force, the Australian Federal Police and the Australian Fisheries Management Authority.
Liberal Senator Jonno Duniam: “The illicit tobacco trade is being driven by organised criminal syndicates who are exploiting weak enforcement, high profits and growing demand - and now even directly endangering the lives of Australian Border Force officers.”
Liberal Senator Jonno Duniam: “The illicit tobacco trade is being driven by organised criminal syndicates who are exploiting weak enforcement, high profits and growing demand - and now even directly endangering the lives of Australian Border Force officers.”
Opposition home affairs spokesman Jonno Duniam said the “alarming” incident highlighted Australia’s “illicit tobacco crisis.”
“The illicit tobacco trade is being driven by organised criminal syndicates who are exploiting weak enforcement, high profits and growing demand - and now even directly endangering the lives of Australian Border Force officers,” he said.
“During the past three years, tobacco syndicates have become so well-funded and well-armed that they are actually now firing on ABF vessels in order to get their shipments through. Far from being deterred by Labor’s policies, they are clearly emboldened.”
Smugglers and illegal fishermen skirting Australia’s vast northern border have grown in confidence in recent years, forcing the Albanese Government to launch various operations aimed at stemming the flow of criminal activity getting rich at the expense of the Australian taxpayer.
Communities across Arnhem Land have frequently come into contact with crafty foreign criminals, sometimes involving Indigenous rangers rescuing dehydrated and vulnerable foreigners stumbling through the bush.
In 2024, the Northern Land Council claimed a group of illegal fishermen camped on a beach on Arnhem Land, broke into cars and stole fuel before sailing home.
Perhaps the most daring infiltration was when a trio of Chinese nationals were smuggled into Darwin Harbour under the cover of darkness before stepping ashore and booking a hotel room in the CBD.
The Australian Border Force (ABF) targeting of illicit tobacco and vape seizures resulted one of the largest in Queensland history in partnership with the Queensland Police Service (QPS). Source: ABF
The Australian Border Force (ABF) targeting of illicit tobacco and vape seizures resulted one of the largest in Queensland history in partnership with the Queensland Police Service (QPS). Source: ABF
Penetrating the border was made easier with the inside help of 22 year-old chef Ziyang Sun, who was paid $4500 for taking part in the elaborate plot.
Tobacco smugglers have also enjoyed considerable success exploiting the North Australian border.
When questioned on Thursday about whether the Federal Government’s policies on Tobacco were broken after Australian Law Enforcement were fired on by smugglers in the nation’s northern waters, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said there was a firing on law enforcement because “we’re enforcing the law”.
“We are taking the strongest action that has ever been taken against the illicit tobacco trade,” he said. “And we will continue to do so.”
Mr Albanese also ruled out to changes to the tobacco excise, telling reporters, “we’ve just had a budget, so our policy that exist are in that budget”.
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese: “We are taking the strongest action that has ever been taken against the illicit tobacco trade.” Picture: Sam Ruttyn
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese: “We are taking the strongest action that has ever been taken against the illicit tobacco trade.” Picture: Sam Ruttyn
He also rejected tobacco excise policies were broken when questioned over a rise in illegal tobacco recorded by the Australian Bureau of Statistics in a June study.
Last week, ABF officers made a shock discovery when $3.9m worth of illicit tobacco was found stashed inside a Darwin storage facility.
The illicit tobacco market has become a cash cow for organised crime groups.
The trade has been fuelled by Australia’s high cigarette taxes, with legal cigarettes now retailing from between $40 and $60 a pack.
Manchester cigarettes, which are smuggling into Australia tax free, are being sold for as little as $15 a packet across the country.
Government revenue has plummeted by billions of dollars as crime cartels flood Australia’s streets with tax free cigarettes.
The shooting incident underscores the military’s active role in defending the border from cash-hungry criminals.
Under Operation Resolute, ADF personnel are tasked with patrolling the entire stretch of coastline ranging between Cairns to Broome.
ADF commanders will have more responsibility to juggle in the coming weeks when thousands of air force personnel take part in one of the world’s largest military activities - Exercise Pitch Black - in Darwin and Katherine, while army units will seek to cash-in on the friendly dry season and wrap up Exercise Predator’s Run.
The ABF and Defence Minister Richard Marles were contacted for comment."
"Suspected tobacco smugglers fire at Australian Border Force
Suspected tobacco smugglers brazenly shooting at an Australian Border Force patrol boat has sparked serious concerns about the increased threat to Australia from organised crime.
Harry Brill, Rory Williams, Mark Morri, Stephen Drill and Jake McCallum
June 11, 2026 - 12:10PM
Suspected tobacco smugglers have brazenly shot at a patrol boat involved in an Australian Border Force operation off the coast of Indonesia.
The alleged couriers opened fire when they were being monitored by the Australian Border Force as part of Operation Maritime Protector.
The vessel attacked was understood to be a Royal Australian Navy patrol boat that was on secondment to the ABF.
The crew on the patrol boat was forced to take evasive action.
Questions have been raised about why the patrol boat disengaged from the smugglers who were in small fast boats, believed to only be carrying automatic weapons.
The incident, which happened last week off the coast of Indonesia, has raised serious concerns about the increased threat to Australia from organised crime.
The suspects were spotted ferrying illicit tobacco from a mothership that was stopped in open waters by personnel on Operation Maritime Protector.
That operation includes personnel from the Australian Border Force, the Australian Defence Force, the Australian Federal Police and the Australian Fisheries Management Authority.
Liberal Senator Jonno Duniam: “The illicit tobacco trade is being driven by organised criminal syndicates who are exploiting weak enforcement, high profits and growing demand - and now even directly endangering the lives of Australian Border Force officers.”
Liberal Senator Jonno Duniam: “The illicit tobacco trade is being driven by organised criminal syndicates who are exploiting weak enforcement, high profits and growing demand - and now even directly endangering the lives of Australian Border Force officers.”
Opposition home affairs spokesman Jonno Duniam said the “alarming” incident highlighted Australia’s “illicit tobacco crisis.”
“The illicit tobacco trade is being driven by organised criminal syndicates who are exploiting weak enforcement, high profits and growing demand - and now even directly endangering the lives of Australian Border Force officers,” he said.
“During the past three years, tobacco syndicates have become so well-funded and well-armed that they are actually now firing on ABF vessels in order to get their shipments through. Far from being deterred by Labor’s policies, they are clearly emboldened.”
Smugglers and illegal fishermen skirting Australia’s vast northern border have grown in confidence in recent years, forcing the Albanese Government to launch various operations aimed at stemming the flow of criminal activity getting rich at the expense of the Australian taxpayer.
Communities across Arnhem Land have frequently come into contact with crafty foreign criminals, sometimes involving Indigenous rangers rescuing dehydrated and vulnerable foreigners stumbling through the bush.
In 2024, the Northern Land Council claimed a group of illegal fishermen camped on a beach on Arnhem Land, broke into cars and stole fuel before sailing home.
Perhaps the most daring infiltration was when a trio of Chinese nationals were smuggled into Darwin Harbour under the cover of darkness before stepping ashore and booking a hotel room in the CBD.
The Australian Border Force (ABF) targeting of illicit tobacco and vape seizures resulted one of the largest in Queensland history in partnership with the Queensland Police Service (QPS). Source: ABF
The Australian Border Force (ABF) targeting of illicit tobacco and vape seizures resulted one of the largest in Queensland history in partnership with the Queensland Police Service (QPS). Source: ABF
Penetrating the border was made easier with the inside help of 22 year-old chef Ziyang Sun, who was paid $4500 for taking part in the elaborate plot.
Tobacco smugglers have also enjoyed considerable success exploiting the North Australian border.
When questioned on Thursday about whether the Federal Government’s policies on Tobacco were broken after Australian Law Enforcement were fired on by smugglers in the nation’s northern waters, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said there was a firing on law enforcement because “we’re enforcing the law”.
“We are taking the strongest action that has ever been taken against the illicit tobacco trade,” he said. “And we will continue to do so.”
Mr Albanese also ruled out to changes to the tobacco excise, telling reporters, “we’ve just had a budget, so our policy that exist are in that budget”.
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese: “We are taking the strongest action that has ever been taken against the illicit tobacco trade.” Picture: Sam Ruttyn
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese: “We are taking the strongest action that has ever been taken against the illicit tobacco trade.” Picture: Sam Ruttyn
He also rejected tobacco excise policies were broken when questioned over a rise in illegal tobacco recorded by the Australian Bureau of Statistics in a June study.
Last week, ABF officers made a shock discovery when $3.9m worth of illicit tobacco was found stashed inside a Darwin storage facility.
The illicit tobacco market has become a cash cow for organised crime groups.
The trade has been fuelled by Australia’s high cigarette taxes, with legal cigarettes now retailing from between $40 and $60 a pack.
Manchester cigarettes, which are smuggling into Australia tax free, are being sold for as little as $15 a packet across the country.
Government revenue has plummeted by billions of dollars as crime cartels flood Australia’s streets with tax free cigarettes.
The shooting incident underscores the military’s active role in defending the border from cash-hungry criminals.
Under Operation Resolute, ADF personnel are tasked with patrolling the entire stretch of coastline ranging between Cairns to Broome.
ADF commanders will have more responsibility to juggle in the coming weeks when thousands of air force personnel take part in one of the world’s largest military activities - Exercise Pitch Black - in Darwin and Katherine, while army units will seek to cash-in on the friendly dry season and wrap up Exercise Predator’s Run.
The ABF and Defence Minister Richard Marles were contacted for comment."
The recent Ak47 incident/ concept / scenario does highlight how should our constabulary vessels respond be they Navy or BF.
I think of our state and federal police officers and the wide range of scenarios they will come up against.
If the scenario is a physical threat then with time being critical, the situation will be judged essentially as a fight or flight.
Snap decisions will need to be made.
All our police do carry guns for the worst case time critical scenario.
Our constabulary forces should do the same.
That gun should not be a “pistol “ but rather an over overmatch weapon / weapons for the challenged world of today.
Worse case scenario against low end kinetic threats.
30 mm should be the minimum
Our Constabulary forces should have a range of kinetic options if the need arises.
Any adversary should know actions have consequences.
This is not about being gunho and blasting everything in sight.
We are not the USA
That said we should not be a pushover
Cheers S
I think of our state and federal police officers and the wide range of scenarios they will come up against.
If the scenario is a physical threat then with time being critical, the situation will be judged essentially as a fight or flight.
Snap decisions will need to be made.
All our police do carry guns for the worst case time critical scenario.
Our constabulary forces should do the same.
That gun should not be a “pistol “ but rather an over overmatch weapon / weapons for the challenged world of today.
Worse case scenario against low end kinetic threats.
30 mm should be the minimum
Our Constabulary forces should have a range of kinetic options if the need arises.
Any adversary should know actions have consequences.
This is not about being gunho and blasting everything in sight.
We are not the USA
That said we should not be a pushover
Cheers S
Desire to not hear a bad word said against the RAN or it’s decisions aside, PM Albanese has apparently confirmed this incident occurred as described.
Assuming therefore it is true, it points to an under-estimation of the threat for our planned “Constabulary” operations.
If only the world was as our plans / funding envelope would want them to be and all that, eh?