Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

FormerDirtDart

FormerDirtDart

Well-Known Member
Lolcake said:
www.afr.com

Australia to buy up to five Virginia class subs as part of AUKUS

AUKUS will have multiple stages with at least one US submarine visiting Australian ports in the coming years and end in the late 2030s with a new class of submarines being built with British designs and American technology.
www.afr.com www.afr.com

Back on topic. Well this just threw the spanner in. Pretty good stop gap if you ask me.
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Non-paywalled access to the article from Reuters
I have a free account with Reuters and can read the article, so not sure if it will be be viewable by non-account holders
www.reuters.com

Exclusive: Australia expected to buy up to 5 Virginia class submarines as part of AUKUS

AUKUS is expected to be its biggest defense project and offers the prospect of jobs in all three countries. In the early 2030's, Australia would buy 3 Virginia class submarines with the option to buy two more.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
  • US SSN(s) commencing port visits in coming years
  • US SSNs forward deployed to Western Australia around 2027
  • Over next 5 years Australian workers come to US shipyards to observe & train, benefitting US production
  • Early 2030's RAN begins acquisition of 3 Virginia-class boats, with option for two more
  • Late 2030s production of "new class of submarine" from British design w/US technology insert (seen this coined as "Ozstute" but wonder if it might be more likely based off SSN(R))
 
T

TScott

Member
It's quite detailed for just a throw at the stumps.

Suspect it's the same source as the AFP article. Or it's a rewrite with Reuters attempting a few additional source confirmations.

Found the following quite intriguing as it makes a lot sense on both parts

"Over the next five years, Australian workers will come to U.S. submarine shipyards to observe and train. This training will directly benefit U.S. submarine production as there is currently a labor shortfall for shipyard workers the U.S. needs to build its submarines "

They obviously aren't doing that for a UK designed sub.
 
T

TScott

Member
FormerDirtDart said:
  • Late 2030s production of "new class of submarine" from British design w/US technology insert (seen this coined as "Ozstute" but wonder if it might be more likely based off SSN(R))
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Why would we go from potentially 5 x Virginia Class subs to an Astute with a US weapons system?

Surely it would have to be an upgrade over the existing Virginia's which would have to be a hybrid SSN(R) wouldn't it? Otherwise you would just build more Virginia's wouldn't you?
 
Lolcake

Lolcake

Active Member
TScott said:
Why would we go from potentially 5 x Virginia Class subs to an Astute with a US weapons system?

Surely it would have to be an upgrade over the existing Virginia's which would have to be a hybrid SSN(R) wouldn't it? Otherwise you would just build more Virginia's wouldn't you?
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I think this is a fantastic outcome. Whether or not the later design will be based on the SSNR is not really relavent at this stage as it will probably change multiple times based on the strategic climate.

I see no mention of where the Virginia's will be built.
 
Going Boeing

Going Boeing

Well-Known Member
FormerDirtDart said:
based on the described scenario in the US obviously.
It would sheer stupidity and wasted resources to build a "Virginia" production line in Australia to start a "new class submarine" production line not ten years later
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Yes, it makes sense to build them in the US on the established production lines. If a large number of workers from ASC North are sent to GDEB & HINN, they will learn the skills necessary for the subsequent SSN construction at Osborne as well as assisting the US in increasing their Virginia production up to the 3 per annum target - a true win-win. It also buys time for both companies to train additional workers before the Aussie workers return.
 
R

Reptilia

Well-Known Member
So 3-5 Virginia class block 1 to 4 from 2030, possibly a little earlier and a new sub design, ssnr/us tech to follow from early 2040s.1st of class built in u.k and u.s in late 2030s. U.S to use aus ports from 2027.
 
H

hauritz

Well-Known Member
If true I will stick my neck out and say that we were likely to get secondhand Virginias. By 2030 some of the older Virginias will be approaching 30 years service life and probably wouldn't represent a huge loss of capability to the USN.

There might be enough hull life left in them to hold us over till the SSN(R) is ready.
 
A

Anthony_B_78

Active Member
hauritz said:
If true I will stick my neck out and say that we were likely to get secondhand Virginias. By 2030 some of the older Virginias will be approaching 30 years service life and probably wouldn't represent a huge loss of capability to the USN.

There might be enough hull life left in them to hold us over till the SSN(R) is ready.
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Initially thought the same, but the problem with that would be the 33-year reactor life. The Virginia itself was commissioned in 2004. If we did take some of those older ones from the early 2030s then they're going to have less than 10 years' life. Maybe that would be ok as a transition to the newbuild submarines.
 
R

Reptilia

Well-Known Member
people seem to be worried about building a new unproven design following the interim sub.
Do people think the SSNR will be that much different from the dreadnought?. minus the 12 Ballistic missile module and add in the shorter misc missile/hypersonic/drone module. The hull form is expected to be the same along with the reactor, turbo electric drive, the propulsor Etc

the dimensions and weight of the dreadnought are expected to be
153.6m long
12.8m beam
12m draught
17,200 tons
the ballistic section, around 35 metres

the current Virginia block 4
115m long
10-10.3 beam
9.3-9.8 draught
7,900 tons

new Virginia block 5
140m long
10-10.3 beam
9.3-9.8 draught
10,200 tons

the current astute
97m long
10.7-11.3m beam
10-10.3m draught
7,400 tons

many articles in the past have reported it’s successor to be 20-25% longer

SSNR?
est 115-125 metres long
12.8m beam - same as dreadnought?
12m draught - same as dreadnought?
est 10,000+ tons

@Reptilia Where are the sources for this info? You have been on here long enough to know the rules.

Ngatimozart.
 
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buffy9

buffy9

Well-Known Member
Anthony_B_78 said:
Initially thought the same, but the problem with that would be the 33-year reactor life. The Virginia itself was commissioned in 2004. If we did take some of those older ones from the early 2030s then they're going to have less than 10 years' life. Maybe that would be ok as a transition to the newbuild submarines.
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If the articles are correct, they may be new build or Blk III/IV subs - with the caveat that USN personnel are likely also operating on them, with the subs either retiring or returning to the US as the next gen subs enter service.

Still all speculation though...
 
W

Wazza

New Member
I see the steal was cut for the third Dreadnought in February this year so the SSN(R) project is likely to start before the end of the decade, if there is a simultaneous build in the UK and Adelaide they could start hitting the water mid 30’s commissioning in the early 40’s.
As far as the Virginias go It would make sense to be a new build lease hand back agreement, where we hand them back with 15-20 years on the clock rather than a second hand outright buy. The US keep them on the books but gain that asset in the 40’s. As with most things at the moment speculation.
 
S

Scott Elaurant

Well-Known Member
TScott said:
Summary of the article:

- AUKUS pact, will have multiple stages with at least one US submarine visiting Australian ports in the coming years and end in the late 2030s with a new class of submarines being built with British designs and American technology.

- the United States would forward deploy some submarines in Western Australia by around 2027.

- In the early 2030s, Australia would buy three Virginia class submarines and have the option to buy two more.
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I appreciate you are reporting the reporting, but why would we do that? Technically Astutes and Virginias don’t have much in common. Reactor, weapons, sensors, CMS, other machinery all different items from different supply chains. Why would we buy Virginias, train crews and workers how to operate and maintain them, then do it all over again for a different design we then build?
 
R

Reptilia

Well-Known Member
The follow on submarine is uk design with u.s systems. The U.S. designed Virginia with u.s systems to be followed by uk design boat with u.s systems is not much of a transition compared to uk design with uk systems. Aus transition from Collins to Virginia is also easier than Collins to astute.
 
R

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Scott Elaurant said:
I appreciate you are reporting the reporting, but why would we do that? Technically Astutes and Virginias don’t have much in common. Reactor, weapons, sensors, CMS, other machinery all different items from different supply chains. Why would we buy Virginias, train crews and workers how to operate and maintain them, then do it all over again for a different design we then build?
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Because Beggars can't be choosy, the only way we get Subs by the early 30s are Virginia's off the States. The SSN(X) may not even be on the table, The Yanks don't need us to help finance their development. The British is a very different story with Australia matching them Sub for Sub, numbers wise, it makes a lot of sense to help them develop the SSN(R).
 
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