Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

[oldsig127]

The issue with the existing continuous shipbuilding plan is that it's built around a stagnant surface combatant fleet size of 12, which in turn results in a slow drumbeat. Neither of which are suitable for our strategic environment, the urgency of requirement or our national strategic needs in terms of presence and naval diplomacy.

The plan as is effectively keeps us at 11 combatants until Hunter 9 is delivered sometime in the mid 2040s .... at least two decades from now.

Arguably, the 1986 Dibb Review's recommendation for up to 18 surface combatants should be our baseline target. And that's doable if we have a proper low, medium, high mix - in terms of platform capability and crew requirements.

No, it STARTS around a surface fleet of 11 but the facility is built to allow it to crank up to a significantly faster drumbeat. As it should, because it allows a slow rise in fleet numbers over time, or in times of stress (wartime) a still faster production and to hell with the consequences.

oldsig

 

[ngatimozart]

I think everybody is doing the dead chook and running around in circles WRT the SSN at the moment. We can speculate until the cows come home, but that's all it is speculation based on nothing. We won't know anything until the announcement is made in six months time, and yes we all have to wait and for some the waiting is frustrating. But the military runs on the principle of hurry up and wait. For those of us who have had the pleasure of serving, how many times have we been hurried around somewhere at double time and then waited for ages for what we there for to begin. If you were five minutes early, you were late etc. This new review of defence also throws some uncertainty into the equation about other RAN programs as well and the budget isn't unlimited.

The situation in the Solomon Islands also will have some bearing on the matter with the moratorium on foreign naval ship visits and apparent tightening of visa conditions for foreign media. Both of these have occurred after the signing of the recent Solomon Islands - PRC Security Agreement. IMHO that is not a coincidence.

 

[Volkodav]

I am beginning to wonder if the thinking is Australia becomes certified to provide increased capacity to the supply chain. We won't build entire submarines but will progressively build more and more components for them, supplying to the US/UK for their boats, as well as our own.

The aim should be for AUKUS to cut into the constraints on producing the required numbers of boats, and Australia assist the US and UK in achieving their required volumes as well as having our need met.

 

[AndyinOz]

Reading an interesting article earlier with comments from the UK International Trade Secretary Anne-Marie Trevelyan may or may not be of relevance (let me know if not so I know what's kosher what's not)

Britain pledges nuclear submarines support with the quote:

"I am personally committed to ensuring that the whole ecosystem which we have in the UK to build, upskill and maintain our own UK submarine enterprise will be right alongside you ... as you start on this complex and technically demanding defence commitment," she said.

"It's going to span everything from construction to creating a nuclear engineering skills ecosystem to the training of your sailors to the through-life maintenance support and decommissioning of your AUKUS submarines."

The mention of ecosystems, construction through to maintenance support etc might be of relevance to the previously mentioned component supply, and collaborative effort that seems to be the phrase used to describe the project.

 

[John Fedup]

I am beginning to wonder if the thinking is Australia becomes certified to provide increased capacity to the supply chain. We won't build entire submarines but will progressively build more and more components for them, supplying to the US/UK for their boats, as well as our own.

The aim should be for AUKUS to cut into the constraints on producing the required numbers of boats, and Australia assist the US and UK in achieving their required volumes as well as having our need met.

Increasing supply chain capacity via Australia for SSN production is going to be essential in order to meet requirements for all three AUKUS partners. It’s one of the reasons for the agreement. It will be useful for other military kit as well.

 

[seaspear]

There are suggestions in the U.K press of Australia building the front section of the submarine to be finished off in the U.K
Future British submarines could be crewed by Australian and American sailors (msn.com)
On another note Indonesia is apparently lobbying over a hundred countries believing that Australia could convert nuclear technology to weapons
Indonesia threatens Australia nuclear submarines deal | Daily Telegraph
Next-generation UK attack submarine may be fully collaborative AUKUS design, Defence Secretary says | Shephard (shephardmedia.com)

 

[oldsig127]

There are suggestions in the U.K press of Australia building the front section of the submarine to be finished off in the U.K
Future British submarines could be crewed by Australian and American sailors (msn.com)
On another note Indonesia is apparently lobbying over a hundred countries believing that Australia could convert nuclear technology to weapons
Indonesia threatens Australia nuclear submarines deal | Daily Telegraph
Next-generation UK attack submarine may be fully collaborative AUKUS design, Defence Secretary says | Shephard (shephardmedia.com)

Not a new story ( about Indonesia) but it's always nice of Uncle Rupert's minions to rehash every negative story in revenge over the derailing of Abbot's "Captain's Pick"

Bet you that the list of aggrieved countries will include China and all of their coat hangers.

oldsig127

 

[Volkodav]

Not a new story ( about Indonesia) but it's always nice of Uncle Rupert's minions to rehash every negative story in revenge over the derailing of Abbot's "Captain's Pick"

Bet you that the list of aggrieved countries will include China and all of their coat hangers.

oldsig127

Indonesia has the additional gripe that Australia joined and became a champion of the nuclear non proliferation treaty specifically to derail Indonesia's nuclear program.

Indonesia was probably further along the path than Australia when the powers that be worked out it would be cheaper and easier to support the treaty and curtail at acquisition of nucs in our region than to continue development.

 

[FormerDirtDart]

Seems the UK defense secretary is saying the AUKUS partnership will produce 'something else', rather than a Virginia or Astute.
My mind jumps to the possibility that the RAN may field the follow on to Astute before the RN does.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566599537686364161

 

[Redlands18]

Seems the UK defense secretary is saying the AUKUS partnership will produce 'something else', rather than a Virginia or Astute.
My mind jumps to the possibility that the RAN may field the follow on to Astute before the RN does.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566599537686364161

But what does he mean by an off the shelf build? Is he talking about an 8th Astute built to exactly the same design as the first 7? I don't think anyone ever really thought that was going to happen. I have always thought it would be either a modified Astute with either the PWR3 or even the US S9G reactor but definitely with the US AN/BYG-1 CMS or a Virginia with some modifications.

 

[CJR]

Seems the UK defense secretary is saying the AUKUS partnership will produce 'something else', rather than a Virginia or Astute.
My mind jumps to the possibility that the RAN may field the follow on to Astute before the RN does.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1566599537686364161

Dreadnought shortened by cutting out the missile compartment?

 

[hauritz]

I get the impression that no version of the Astute will be available and the focus will be on the next gen submarine. It sounds pretty official to me that both the US and UK have now poured cold water on the idea of an off the shelf boat. On the other hand British Secretary of Defence did seem to push the idea of a collaborative build with a target delivery date between 2035-2040. In fact he seemed to be championing the idea of all three countries collaborating on a single design.

 

[Redlands18]

Dreadnought shortened by cutting out the missile compartment?

That is what the plan is for the SSN(R) they will basically be based on the Dreadnought minus the Missile compartment.
The future of Royal Navy attack submarines | Navy Lookout

 

[FormerDirtDart]

That is what the plan is for the SSN(R) they will basically be based on the Dreadnought minus the Missile compartment.
The future of Royal Navy attack submarines | Navy Lookout

That article says no such thing. It states that AN analyst SPECULATES that the SSN(R) will be larger than the Astutes (+25%) and "... will have much in common with the Dreadnought class. ..."
And all that SPECULATION occurred prior to the AUKUS announcement

 

[Lolcake]

This speculation is becoming somewhat of a headless chook convention. We need to wait for an announcement and end the talk of hybrid builds until something official is released. Mods have already closed this thread previously after fantasy builds and fleet discussion. Let's not trod down that path again.

 

[Redlands18]

That is what the plan is for the SSN(R) they will basically be based on the Dreadnought minus the Missile compartment.
The future of Royal Navy attack submarines | Navy Lookout

I will withdraw this claim as it is made on poor available evidence.

That article says no such thing. It states that AN analyst SPECULATES that the SSN(R) will be larger than the Astutes (+25%) and "... will have much in common with the Dreadnought class. ..."
And all that SPECULATION occurred prior to the AUKUS announcement

The article contains a drawing that clearly shows the SSN(R) as a shortened Dreadnought but as you say it is a couple of years old and pre AUKUS and is pretty poor evidence and I have withdrawn the claim.

 

[DDG38]

Meanwhile back in the getting shit done with what they have Navy......
"HMAS Supply (left) sails alongside HMAS Sydney to commence a Replenishment At Sea during a Regional Presence Deployment." Image Source : ADF Image Library

 

[DDG38]

"HMAS Canberra returns to her home port of Fleet Base East in Sydney after the successful regional presence deployment."
Image Source : ADF Image Library

 

[Stampede]

"HMAS Canberra returns to her home port of Fleet Base East in Sydney after the successful regional presence deployment."
Image Source : ADF Image Library
View attachment 49627

So did the photographer ask the ships captain to position HMAS Canberra in this perfect position with the Habour bridge central to the flight line.
Or is it as I suspect, someone who knows their craft and looks for opportunity!

Great pic.

Cheers S

 

[StingrayOZ]

I am still in awe of the Canberra classes and how well they work as strategic projection ships and how diverse their regional deployments are.

https://news.defence.gov.au/international/thats-wrap-hmas-canberra

From embarking forces from Tonga and Sri Lankan Marines, Rimpac with the Aus Army, defusing WW2 bombs in Nauru. M-22's. Embarking Medical specialists from US and NZ. On other deployments, from missions wider afield in Asia and the sub continent, to helping with HDAR on the east coast.

They also look beautiful in the harbor.