Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Just another quick question if anyone knows, what happened to the RAAF's stock of ASRAAM's once the Hornets were paid off? I know that the ASRAAM has been cleared for external use on the F-35B, not sure about the F-35A. Cheers.
I had heard on the grape-vine that the ASRAAM’s had been sent back to the UK and have potentially found a new home since. But I can’t peovide a link to support that…

In any case they are not cleared on F-35A or the SHornet. Might have been useful on the P-8A given their reported range…
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Don't normally venture into the RAAF realm but saw this article and was a bit puzzled by it. I'm not sure what program this acquisition came from and for that matter does anyone know what's happening with MC-55A Peregrine. Haven't heard a peep about it since the photos of the "prototype" came out.
Australia provides the Pacific Maritime Air Surveillance capability, on behalf of a number of Pacific Islands.

It currently does this via a pair of King Air 200’s but is actively looking for an enhanced aerial surveillance capability, including an aircraft type with better speed, range, loiter time, etc.

Just a thought…
 
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seaspear

Well-Known Member
I had heard on the grape-vine that the ASRAAM’s had been sent back to the UK and have potentially found a new home since. But I can’t peovide a link to support that…

In any case they are not cleared on F-35A or the SHornet. Might have been useful on the P-8A given their reported range…
Is this the same type of ASRAAM sent to the U.K
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Interesting.
Do both Army and RAAF have separate stocks of Aim 120 or do they draw from the one source?
If they do have separate stock, are they interchangeable or are the land based version different?
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Perhaps a combination of delivery and price could be the reason.
Possibly, OTOH it might also because of slightly different missile characteristics. I would be curious to find out whether or not the two missiles have the same total weight. If not, that difference, even though slight, might be enough to impact various ordnance loadouts.
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I read that the RAAF ordered 450 aim 120Ds in 2016. I also read that that 120C8 was an export version of the D.
It may have been a case that the C8s were available right now due to a customer cancelling or not paying for an order.
 

OldTex

Well-Known Member
I'd be interested to understand why we would buy the C8, when the later D3 version (with the bigger rocket and range) is available. Anyone know why?
It isn't a procurement of one or the other. It is a procurement of both the C8 (up to 200) and the D3 (up to 200) variants as detailed in the DSCA notification. It was reported by other sources that:
"Australia’s planned acquisition of 400 AIM-120C-8 and AIM-120D-3 missiles represents a strategic step in strengthening its air defense posture. These missiles will be integrated into the Royal Australian Air Force’s F/A-18F Super Hornet, EA-18G Growler, and F-35A Lightning II fleets, as well as into the NASAMS surface-to-air missile system operated by the Australian Army. "
Reading information in the public domain suggests (to me) that the AIM-120C-8 will most likely be for NASAMS, with the AIM-120D-3 for RAAF.
 
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ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Interesting.
Do both Army and RAAF have separate stocks of Aim 120 or do they draw from the one source?
If they do have separate stock, are they interchangeable or are the land based version different?
Army ordered the AIM-120C7 as the initial weapon to arm the NASAMS air defence system. Perhaps this is being updated with the C8 version, or perhaps this entire order is for RAAF employed weapons?


ADF refuses to even comment on how these weapons are used publicly, but I tend towards the idea that these C8 variants are intended for NASAMS, the reasoning being that the C8 is a -C model AMRAAM with elements of the F3R AMRAAM upgrade hosted on the -C missile body whereas the AIM-120D3 is the same F3R upgrade hosted on the -D model missile body. RAAF has previously also ordered the earlier AIM-120D models which in CATM variation have been observed flying on RAAF aircraft.


At present the -D model has not yet been integrated onto eNASAMS, at least as far as I am aware on the public records about the topic I have read.

Of course there could be a capability reason or cost reason or some integration / flight test reason perhaps as to why RAAF would order both the C8 and the D3, noting of course that other countries (such as Japan) have also done so and they don't operate the AMRAAM in a ground launched SAM role:


So clearly there must be some benefit in operating both variants in an air to air role, that are not revealed publicly...
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
AD, did the RAAF do or are they going with the "sidekick" mod? I would assume they have, but I can't find anything public about it.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
AD, did the RAAF do or are they going with the "sidekick" mod? I would assume they have, but I can't find anything public about it.
There are a few reports (scuttlebutt really) that USN may have operationally deployed the "Sidekick" weapons adaptor in the Red Sea Ops currently underway, but if so they are an early operational test type scenario at best.

No-one has "officially" gone with Sidekick as yet. It has been funded officially by the USN as a development item for their F-35C models that I have seen for certain and I have little doubt other users will come one board when it is available, but there was some talk about the weapons bays having to be re-designed and possibly even a bulkhead modified for the bays to fit 6x AMRAAM even with the Sidekick adaptor so it may not be as "straight forward" as it seemed at one point.

If the development of Sidekick works out positively, I am quite sure RAAF will be keen on acquiring it, with the F-35A selected to be our primary air to air fighter for the foreseeable future... In the mean time, they are quite likely looking at some of the tactical set-ups they can use with the existing air to air missile capability of the F-35A with internal and external weapons options, as well as (likely) options for off-board firing of AMRAAM missiles from other aircraft, such as RAAF Super Hornets / Growlers and even allied aircraft. These things tending to happen in force packages, of course...
 

downunderblue

Active Member
Coincidently we'll have more AMRAAM's soon so it sounds logical to stuff more of them aboard the "Sidekick" adapted weapons bay.

After all who needs 4 bullets when you can 'stealthfully' carry 6 for a little more weight?
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Coincidently we'll have more AMRAAM's soon so it sounds logical to stuff more of them aboard the "Sidekick" adapted weapons bay.

After all who needs 4 bullets when you can 'stealthfully' carry 6 for a little more weight?
It appears it may allow for more flexible load-outs too. For example a Sidekick adapted in one bay providing 3x AMRAAM missiles with a normal weapons load in the adjoining bay offering (for example) 4x SDB I/II and a single rail carried AMRAAM offering 4x strike weapons and 4x A2A weapons internally.

Quite the enhancement in reality.
 

Mark_Evans

Member
Ok, are Euan Graham and Linus Cohen smoking something? Breaking Defence and ASPI article recommending Australia pursue the B2.....
Now, I could understand looking at B21 but the B2?


 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Ok, are Euan Graham and Linus Cohen smoking something? Breaking Defence and ASPI article recommending Australia pursue the B2.....
Now, I could understand looking at B21 but the B2?


Smoking crack is not great for cognitive ability, I understand…

Anyone still curious as to why ASPI’s funding is getting reduced and it’s wings clipped?
 

downunderblue

Active Member
Ok, are Euan Graham and Linus Cohen smoking something? Breaking Defence and ASPI article recommending Australia pursue the B2.....
Now, I could understand looking at B21 but the B2?


Linus seems new, with only a few months publishing at ASPI and often in partnership with someone senior.

Euan is normally pretty good and I was surprised at the article. There were to many 'if's' which challenged the central hypotheses. There is no pathway nor logical argument why the US would hand them over, nor would they be affordable. Sustainment, basing and training were all ignored. It looked like a click bait article you'd expect from an enthusiast at best.

Yes we all wish for some form of long range strike platform of reasonable deterant, but there is nothing feasible that can be fielded quickly.
 

Sandson41

Member
Ok, are Euan Graham and Linus Cohen smoking something? Breaking Defence and ASPI article recommending Australia pursue the B2.....
Now, I could understand looking at B21 but the B2?
I'm sure they'd tell you its their role to publish articles putting forward ideas, some of which are out of left field, and play devil's advocate. Like Vice Adm Shackleton's article saying we should just buy Burke DDGs, or that we need to go back to the French Attack class or SSNs, etc. Generally reasonable, if a bit pie in the sky sometimes...

But their first job should be to protect their reputation, by rejecting stuff like this. This is embarrassing.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Smoking crack is not great for cognitive ability, I understand…

Anyone still curious as to why ASPI’s funding is getting reduced and it’s wings clipped?
TBH I wonder if the two have played too much contact sport and are suffering some of the impacts (heh!) of TBI's, since them seem to blithely assume that the US would be willing to sell such a strategic asset which has such limited numbers and that Australia could and would be willing to spend the coin likely required. IIRC the US per unit cost reached something like USD$2 bil. during the programme, which now would roughly equal USD$4 bil. in current dollars.

If the B-21 Raider is to start replacing the B-2 Spirit in USAF service some time in the 2030's, how much service life is likely to remain in the B-2 airframes and how economical is it likely to be? I tend to believe that if the USAF is replacing them at that point, it (the USAF) is doing so because whilst the design might still be airworthy, the burden to maintain and operate the design exceeds the capabilities it can provide and/or alternate assets can provide the capabilities better. As of right now, the B-2 design reached first flight some 35 years ago, and the most recent example is currently 25 years old. If the design does not become available for another 10-15 years...
 
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