SouthernSky
Member
I've lived near RAAF Williams Laverton for a very long time. I never thought I'd say this after years of CT/4's driving us nuts at night but I miss having an operational airfield and the odd Hornet dropping in.
Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
the road runner
Active Member
Is Australia looking at getting an anti radiation missile such as the AGM-88 HARM to fly on its Super Hornets? Im assuming if the RAAF re-wires 12 Super hornets to Growler configuration and Anti Radiation missile will be the next step in the evolution?
It has ever been thus.
I will always remember, rolling around in foul southerly weather in the east coast exercise areas, that every RAAF sortie planned for the weekend would go u/s on Friday pm and miraculously be 100% servicable by Monday am.
In the meantime us poor bastards would be thrown around all weekend chasing submarines with no fixed wing ASW and the AAW team would be bored sh..tless
Yes. The announcement hasn't been made, but either AGM-88B or AGM-88E or both will be chosen...
Just as a distraction, I got buzzed by a couple of Shornet's doing runs into the Evans Head Bombing Range today, see them pretty often, they do a loop in from the ocean and circle around over the National Park to line up for their runs, brings them over the top of the highway where they turn right near a rest stop, don't care what anyone says, watching these things do their stuff if pretty awesome, will have to get down there one day and take some pics
Cheers
There has been fast jet activity over the Port Macquarie skies every night for the last several days. Too dark to see what they are, but they are burning some gas.
Is anyone able to confirm what the "block" level will be for the first batch of F-35's Australia recieves? Is there a concrete timeline for the different "block" level upgrades and what they include?
The first batch we'll receive (initial 2 aircraft) I believe are slated to be Block 2B aircraft.
Our first "operational" deliveries will be Block 3 aircraft and our IOC will be based on an operational squadron's worth of Block 3 aircraft plus training aircraft, support systems, training systems, weapons, infrastructure (meeting the strict security requirements) and a cadre of trained support staff and pilots, I understand.
Bold question, could the $1.5b* for the Growler EW upgrade have been better spent purchasing 12 - 24 F-35B's for possible operations from our LHD's. Purely hypothetical ignoring the fact the Shortnets were purchased as a stop gap.
I've been here long enough to know we aren't operating out own fixed wing aircraft the LHD's, I also realise the role these platforms will be playing. I've been pondering which capability could serve us better & which capability could have been used in previous deployments (Afghanistan, Iraq, East Timor, Solomon Islands etc).
This is not a VS post nor am I pro-claiming for F-35B's, hoping to see some interesting answers.
I've been here long enough to know we aren't operating out own fixed wing aircraft the LHD's, I also realise the role these platforms will be playing. I've been pondering which capability could serve us better & which capability could have been used in previous deployments (Afghanistan, Iraq, East Timor, Solomon Islands etc).
This is not a VS post nor am I pro-claiming for F-35B's, hoping to see some interesting answers.
Well the Shornets always needed to be purchased, so the question to ask is do we need the Growler's ? and what has been identified as their role ? Correct me if I am wrong ? but I don't recall seeing anything yet ? so 1.5b for 12 Growler's that dont have a role ? Where do they fit into the force (or future force) structure ? I am sure the new White Paper will make an excuse.
So would the money be better of buying B's for the RAAF to play with ? Yes ! for a whole raft of reasons which I will not go into, as the Pro's and Con's have been done to death
Cheers
For one thing I am hoping that the $1.5 billion isn't coming off the F-35 program.
The second thing I am wondering is whether it might not have been a better idea to spend the $1.5 billion on new build growlers rather than upgrading existing superhornets.
You could perhaps afford 6 to 8 new builds for the same money ... which would probably be adequate and you would have a few extra SH to plug the gap until the F-35 arrives.
The second thing I am wondering is whether it might not have been a better idea to spend the $1.5 billion on new build growlers rather than upgrading existing superhornets.
You could perhaps afford 6 to 8 new builds for the same money ... which would probably be adequate and you would have a few extra SH to plug the gap until the F-35 arrives.
Only guessing here, but the growlers could be seen by some (like APA) to be an admission that in the AA role, the F35 will be out classed in the future, and EW provided by the growlers will cover that gap.
Other than that, growlers could cripple a city,s comms allowing for an easy strike, as well as the SEAD,dEAD roles. I'm sure that APA will have a conspirasy theory about the growlers.....
kiwi in exile
Well-Known Member
Isn't electronic attack spossed to be an integral part of the F35s systems? Why the need for the SH growlers then. how long will we have to wait for the F35's?
Or does this maybe suggest that perceptions are that in the future electronic attack will be just as important as kinetic attacks?
Slightly off topic but still related - there has been fast jet noise every night over the Port Macquarie area for the last two weeks. I am guessing that since the US Growlers are out here, they are burning some gas every night with our RAAFies in tow.
There they go again ...............
There they go again ...............
There is talk of some EW ability integrated into the F-35, in the form of certain AESA modes, what I'm sure is a very nice electronic self-defence suite and whatnot, but the Growler is a dedicated EW platform, with a whole extra crew member whose job is to run the systems. Very much in a different ballpark when it comes to that role. To get an idea of how these aircraft are used, you should be able to find some documents or videos online that mention some details as to how platforms like the Raven were used during the first Gulf War (this is just an example, other posters could probably give you more).
To your second question, my opinion isn't a particularly well informed one but I'd say that yes, one is as important as the other even today, but in a complementary sense, rather than a competing one.
In addition to what has been mentioned in reply one further point. Possibly talking out of my hat here, but 'jamming' and suppression of defences involves the aircraft actively transmitting - which would negate the LO aspects of the F-35 airframe. Perhaps the idea is that as the superbugs are less stealthy they are better suited. e.g. the 'wild weasel' type role requires the aircraft to be tracked and even locked onto to engage that radar with Shrike (or modern equivalent) before firing, jamming and escaping.
VerySneaky
New Member
All of the news I've read related to the growler acquisition have mentioned 1.5b which I'm told includes infrastructure and support for x years (not sure on exact period of time)
defence.gov.au/dmo/Newsitems/23Aug12_Acquisition_Growler_capability.cfm
By 2018 the superhornet airframes will be 8 years old. I am not sure I am a huge fan of Growler conversions or not. I can see the appeal, but there are many downsides as well.
However upgrading aircraft that are already in service makes me wonder if this has been fully thought through.
To start with a whitepaper is supposed to be released next year, along with a decision as to whether or not additional superhornets will be required to cover any capability gap. Surely that would be the time to make this decision. Of course if it is decided to purchase extra aircraft the obvious thing to do would be to buy growlers instead of superhornets.
VerySneaky
New Member
Keep in mind that 8 years isn't necessarily an old aircraft, If i recall correctly F111s were kept in service for 37 years.
If there is a capability gap identified next year I'd have thought SH would be preferable over the growler.. The growler provides an EW capability that we haven't had before whereas the SH is a more dedicated multi role fighter, which is where any gap would lie. Regardless, I don't think it is likely that more SH or growlers will be bought unless the purchase of the JSF is significantly delayed; The current planned retirement of the SH is 2025 and there has been suggestion in the media that the classic hornets would just be upgraded to operate past 2020 (flightglobal.com/news/articles/raaf-fa-18ab-use-could-extend-beyond-2020-audit-376992/)