Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[aussienscale]

Well very interested in this Aust/NZ shared C-17. Would be a big step in the right direction. Certainly a great deal for NZ, it would have capacity that it would otherwise never have and yet cost very little for the privilege. Also tying ADF and NZDF closer, the synergies are interesting. Flying a herc out of NZ for anything (except sydney/melb) has got to be pretty painful.

I've seen a fair bit of F-18 and C-17 action out at richmond, middle of the night runs. The F-18 have been buzzing the valleys around my place a fair bit. Im about 30 km from richmond in a national forest.

They are both a gr8 piece of kit, I live in Ballina NSW and we get the C-17 flying around here a fair bit when doing pilot training etc out of Amberley, watching them do touch & go's at the airport and pulling into huge banking turns (and pretty low mind you) is an awesome site Also see (but more often than not hear) the Super's on their way down to and back from the Evans Head Bombing Range (about 40k's south) a fair bit, they are pretty easy to pick out at night, commercials cant turn like that. You hear in the news here every now and then of reports of a plane in trouble, usually from the boy's hitting a bit of afterburn off the coast

Everything I have seen about C-17 No 5 indicate RAAF only and no mention of the NZ input ? Could this mean a No 6 ? or will we let NZ buy in at a later date considering what has happened over there with the Christchurch disaster ?

 

[Gibbo]

...Everything I have seen about C-17 No 5 indicate RAAF only and no mention of the NZ input ? Could this mean a No 6 ? or will we let NZ buy in at a later date considering what has happened over there with the Christchurch disaster ?

Certainly nothing public here in NZ to indicate Govt is looking at a (joint) buy - and given that recent defence white paper didn't suggest it as a possibility I doubt there's anything behind it - I'm sure it'll just be a straight RAAF purchase.

Today NZ Govt has announced a move into significant cuts to supposedly pay for Chch rebuild - openly stating they will drop servcies altogther that are 'nice to have'. Defence has already been mentioned so even some of the lower end purchases suggested in white paper are now most likely to go on hold.

Here comes the hatchet man...:shudder

 

[aussienscale]

Certainly nothing public here in NZ to indicate Govt is looking at a (joint) buy - and given that recent defence white paper didn't suggest it as a possibility I doubt there's anything behind it - I'm sure it'll just be a straight RAAF purchase.

Today NZ Govt has announced a move into significant cuts to supposedly pay for Chch rebuild - openly stating they will drop servcies altogther that are 'nice to have'. Defence has already been mentioned so even some of the lower end purchases suggested in white paper are now most likely to go on hold.

Here comes the hatchet man...:shudder

Nothing like a natural disaster to blame the state of the country

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Nothing like a natural disaster to blame the state of the country

But doesn't NZ have insurance? I thought they were expecting a multi billion payout from their insurers to cover the cost of the Canterbury rebuild?

 

[Sea Toby]

But doesn't NZ have insurance? I thought they were expecting a multi billion payout from their insurers to cover the cost of the Canterbury rebuild?

While insurers will pay out for the claims of private properties, when it comes to the public infrastructure of hospitals, schools, roads, pipelines, and sewers, those funds will come from the nation's government purse... Governments don't usually buy insurance as the private sector does...

A large tornado ripped through Wichita Falls, Texas, USA during the late 1980s leaving more than a one mile path of destruction through the newest commercial and residential areas of their small city. More than ten percent of the city's population relocated to other cities. Its not easy to rebuild public infrastructure when you lose ten percent of your tax base.

While a tornado isn't niice, an earthquake affect much more of a city's infrastructure....

 

[Abraham Gubler]

While insurers will pay out for the claims of private properties, when it comes to the public infrastructure of hospitals, schools, roads, pipelines, and sewers, those funds will come from the nation's government purse... Governments don't usually buy insurance as the private sector does...

Well actually the NZ Government DOES have a national earthquake insurance scheme. However a quick look online shoes that when they reformed it to remove 'war' coverage in the 90s they also removed public asset and commercial coverage.

I was asking this question of our NZ friends because during the extensive media coverage of the Canterbury earthquake in Australia there was a lot of talk about the NZ insurance commission.

Also in Australia all states will now be required to have natural disaster insurance following the recent spate of such events. See once again the personal example of American governments has little place in this discussion.

 

[StingrayOZ]

I assume the 5th for the RAAF and the 6th is this very hypothetical joint plane.

Sounds like something that requires a lot of political distance and paperwork to be covered, but still I think an ideal joint project. Being a non combatant, being something that is fundementally useful peace and war, something NZ would never be able to justify by herself normally, yet would blend perfectly with Oz. I really hope Australian and NZ can work together for stragetic assets that will clearly benefit each country and the region in general.

We are both going to be deploying forces huge distances, a 6th c-17 would push up right to the top of the pile world wide in terms of air lift capability. (UK levels, until that a400m thing starts to actually fly.

 

[gf0012-aust]

We are both going to be deploying forces huge distances, a 6th c-17 would push up right to the top of the pile world wide in terms of air lift capability. (UK levels, until that a400m thing starts to actually fly.

i wouldn't be putting too much money on betting for a 6th

 

[Aussie Digger]

i wouldn't be putting too much money on betting for a 6th

No chance the Purple community could request another one with say, part of the Battlefield airlifter capability making way for another C-17? I understand moves are afoot to increase and extend C-130H availability for several more years yet and RAAF is trying to get the battlefield Airlifter project moved up in schedule too...

Seems that there simply isn't enough airlift available under current plans with current operations and future maintenance cycles borne in mind?

 

[gf0012-aust]

No chance the Purple community could request another one with say, part of the Battlefield airlifter capability making way for another C-17? I understand moves are afoot to increase and extend C-130H availability for several more years yet and RAAF is trying to get the battlefield Airlifter project moved up in schedule too...

I reckon the only way that they could get a 6th would be if they pulled some of the Hercs - SRP would expect RAAF to make a sacrifice somewhere first to gain something new...

same logic applies to Largs, in that it has half a chance because other assets doing the taskings are going to pasture. so SRP again...

Seems that there simply isn't enough airlift available under current plans with current operations and future maintenance cycles borne in mind?

if they pull hercs for c17's then they end up with more available crew to reduce fatigue and tempo issues.... its a manning issue as well with high tempo and lots of ops...

they run the risk of burning people out on current levels...

 

[Aussie Digger]

I reckon the only way that they could get a 6th would be if they pulled some of the Hercs - SRP would expect RAAF to make a sacrifice somewhere first to gain something new...

if they pull hercs for c17's then they end up with more available crew to reduce fatigue and tempo issues.... its a manning issue as well with high tempo and lots of ops...

they run the risk of burning people out on current levels...

Yep, something existing would have to be sacrificed and something planned in DCP would have to be sacrificed, I was imaging something along the lines of 2-3 Battlefield Airlifters sacrificed to gain a 6th C-17A.

I imagine a fleet of 7-8 C-27J's (for example) would still be militarily useful and sustainable, given ADF's need is for longer ranged and heavier load airlift, rather than that which the C-27J (again as an example) would provide...

Time will tell, but AVM Brown is still looking at the various options available so anything is possible I guess...

 

[meatshield]

Yep, something existing would have to be sacrificed and something planned in DCP would have to be sacrificed, I was imaging something along the lines of 2-3 Battlefield Airlifters sacrificed to gain a 6th C-17A.

I imagine a fleet of 7-8 C-27J's (for example) would still be militarily useful and sustainable, given ADF's need is for longer ranged and heavier load airlift, rather than that which the C-27J (again as an example) would provide...

Time will tell, but AVM Brown is still looking at the various options available so anything is possible I guess...

I hope they do get more c17's, time is running out with the production line closing soon.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Seem to be a pretty good deal. Either way, lose the C130H or get fewer C27js.

How avalible are the H's anyway, are we pushing something beyond what we should?

8 C27J's would still be a useful number, with lower costs than a herc. While the additional C-17 increases our total airlifting tonnage through the roof compared to a few extra C27j's or hercs.

Richmond seems to have a few that are just there for decoration, as they hardly fit engines to some. Palm them off and get a C-17, seems like a good deal!

 

[hairyman]

Now that we have ordered an extra C17, to bring our fleet up to 5, should we be looking to get additional refueling aircraft, or is 5 enough for the RAAF?

 

[Aussie Digger]

Now that we have ordered an extra C17, to bring our fleet up to 5, should we be looking to get additional refueling aircraft, or is 5 enough for the RAAF?

5's enough assuming we don't actually go to war. It's only meant to provide a training and limited operational capability.

Pretty much like our entire defence force, in reality...

 

[Sea Toby]

Now that we have ordered an extra C17, to bring our fleet up to 5, should we be looking to get additional refueling aircraft, or is 5 enough for the RAAF?

When it comes to tanker aircraft, the air force needs a few for training and exercises. During a real shooting war there are hundreds of civilian aircraft which can be modified to perform the refueling role. Many of the air forces around the world have just enough tankers handy so they don't have to bother the airlines frequently...

 

[Kirkzzy]

The Australian published this article:Air force eyes 18 more Super Hornets as delays dog our new fighter | The Australian

Saying we need 18 more Super Hornets to fill the air gap, but personally I got NFI where they got their info from. I noticed this however: "Defence officials are preparing for the government a range of options to fill this looming gap in air defences with the most likely being the purchase of a further 18 Super Hornets for about $800 million each."
"$800 million each" wow... bit much. That would be over 14 billion dollars (even though we got the original 24 for 6 billion and why 18 and not a second batch of 24?

Can anyone clarify this or is it just The Australian publishing a load of rubbish again?

 

[Trackmaster]

Subbing error...what's an extra zero.

 

[hairyman]

Our original 24 F18-F's were to replace the F111. If an additional order was made for further aircraft, to replace the F-18A, surely the single seat F18-E would be a better option. And cheaper.

 

[StingrayOZ]

At 800 million each, I think we should concider something else..

Perhaps some sort of orbital craft with nukes and direct energy weapons and a warp drive.

$800 million for 18 would be more realistic, sounds a bit low tho even as a fly away. Seems fishy. (EDIT: Oh right $80 million each)

The F-18 SH isn't a bad stop gap for us, so if there was a significant delay, it would be relatively painless to fit more in. Didn't we have a lease arrangement with the US? Better than throwing money at F-18 CBR or simular. USN will (proberly) take what we have off our hands if we can go all F-35. I have a feeling tho we will want some as growlers.

Agree with the above, proberly get E models.