don't confuse a daily newspapers open questioning with what actually happens in procurement...
Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
don't confuse a daily newspapers open questioning with what actually happens in procurement...
Is that a hint?
So what do you do with 12 Super Hornets and 12 Super Hornets wired for Growlerdom? This is enough aircraft to sustain an operational squadron of up to 8 EA-18G Growlers as an electronic intelligence (ELINT), electronic attack (EA) force and 4 F/A-18F for fast forward air control (FAC) and fast control where you need a passenger in the air.
The way a premier air force like the RAAF works is from each 24 gross aircraft you need up to 12 offline in individual training, maintenance and sustainment support to support 12 operational. So a potential breakup of the 24 Super Hornets would be:
Operational Use:
8 EA-18G
4 F/A-18F
Training Use:
1 EA-18G
5 F/A-18F
Offline for Maintenance:
3 F/A-18F Wired for Growler
3 F/A-18F
1-2 AN/ALQ-218
That is assuming the Government will buy up to 10-11 AN/ALQ-218s required to make the Super Hornet a Growler.
Such a Growler/Super Hornet force would provide a real force enhancer for the 75 F-35As the RAAF is likely to get. It would also mean the Super Hornet would stay in service until replaced at their end of life.
wouldn't we want to get the growler units delivered with the fa-18f's, they would be of value with the current fa-18's and enhance their capability, wouldn't they ?
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the road runner
Active Member
I was thinking the reason the F18FG will be kept in service, once the JSF is in front line service is because
1)To add a jamming/harm capability
2)to supplement the JSF in the anti shipping role.
Point 2 i have raised in this forum before(no answers tho
)
Will the JSF have an anti shipping capability
Or will the F18F be used as the ASM platform?
thanx in advance
1)To add a jamming/harm capability
2)to supplement the JSF in the anti shipping role.
Point 2 i have raised in this forum before(no answers tho
)Will the JSF have an anti shipping capability
Or will the F18F be used as the ASM platform? thanx in advance
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...urther-details-of-export-standard-ea-18g.html
Boeing reveals further details of export-standard EA-18G
Boeing has revealed further details of the likely configuration for the export-only EA-18G "enhanced awareness" sales concept.
The repackaged EA-18G Growler would be delivered without its ITT ALQ-99 radar jamming pods and interference cancellation system, says Rick Martin, Boeing's EA-18G programme manager.
Instead, it would carry a variety of signals intelligence and surveillance sensors, including Northrop Grumman's ALQ-218(V)2 radio frequency receiver and Raytheon's ALQ-227 communication countermeasures set for electronic surveillance
this was dated 23/02/09 so its a recent release, will this setup do any more than what we already have in the surveillance area ?
Boeing reveals further details of export-standard EA-18G
Boeing has revealed further details of the likely configuration for the export-only EA-18G "enhanced awareness" sales concept.
The repackaged EA-18G Growler would be delivered without its ITT ALQ-99 radar jamming pods and interference cancellation system, says Rick Martin, Boeing's EA-18G programme manager.
Instead, it would carry a variety of signals intelligence and surveillance sensors, including Northrop Grumman's ALQ-218(V)2 radio frequency receiver and Raytheon's ALQ-227 communication countermeasures set for electronic surveillance
this was dated 23/02/09 so its a recent release, will this setup do any more than what we already have in the surveillance area ?
I guess the question is whether the RAAF would be given "Export Standard" EA-18G or the same as the USN.
I would imagine with the very close ties with the US that Australia has, there is a chance the RAAF could get the USN versions if they choose it.
The other possibility is that with the current economic climate the RAAF could opt to procure additional Super Hornets (with a similar reduction in the F-35 order) if there are further delays or cost over runs.
I would imagine with the very close ties with the US that Australia has, there is a chance the RAAF could get the USN versions if they choose it.
The other possibility is that with the current economic climate the RAAF could opt to procure additional Super Hornets (with a similar reduction in the F-35 order) if there are further delays or cost over runs.
I would think the whole purpose of having multi-role aircraft is to leave options for which aircraft does what, using whatever aircraft that is available and on hand at any given time. Too many attempt to pigeon hole, using this aircraft for bombing and this aircraft for intercepting and this aircraft for maritime strike. With multi-role aircraft any aircraft should be able to do all.
I guess this is one of the issues about trying to discuss material like this on the internet. Australia gets some extraordinary access to US technology capability that does not hit the media for obvious reasons.
eg if you consider where some australians are posted in the US, it starts to add some colour and complexion to the depth and type of access we are privileged to receive.
I have minimal doubt that we can gear them up when we want to
just.sentinel
New Member
I think it has to be the full-spec E/A-18G that the USN is gonna be flying. There is no point in Australia just getting an "electronics awareness" only aircraft when they are planning to use the Growlers for a multitude of attack missions, as the minister's statement mentioned.
Moving on slightly, I wonder if Australia will order more F/A-18Gs in the coming months. If 12 Super Hornets from the original order are convered into Growlers, it leaves only 12 more Super Hornets in the classic multi-role fighter variant. Which is really not enough to overcome the retirement of the F-111s and bridge the gap until the induction of the F-35s.
Moving on slightly, I wonder if Australia will order more F/A-18Gs in the coming months. If 12 Super Hornets from the original order are convered into Growlers, it leaves only 12 more Super Hornets in the classic multi-role fighter variant. Which is really not enough to overcome the retirement of the F-111s and bridge the gap until the induction of the F-35s.
12 of the 24 are being wired so that they can be converted to EA-18G sometime in the future if so desired. That full conversion would apparently cost another 300 million.
The white paper is due out at the end of this month(?)
So maybe something firmer might be released then. But I'd be surprised if the go ahead happened anytime soon.
rb
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Yes, the Growler can fly and fight, but not 'just like' the E/F model Super Bugs. As part of the Growler fitout, it has EW gear in place of the 20mm cannon. A subtle difference, but a difference all the same, between the -F and -G models.
A more important difference though is that while the -F models have the cutouts/conduits/gaps/whatever you wish to call it for a -G model wiring loom, it does not have the same wiring loom. I would imagine this was done to ease product of the F/G models by using the same airframe. For a variety of reasons though a different wiring loom is used. I am guessing here, but apart from the additional cost of a -G wiring loom (which AFAIK is more extensive) which would only be needed if an -F were to be converted into a -G, I would imagine that the -G wiring loom could potentially be more expensive to maintain, both in economic and manpower terms. Nothing quite like having a wiring short or CLI to give away ones position or interfere with onboard systems...
-Cheers
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
World First for the RAAF with ASRAAM
In a world first for an Air Force and an infra-red guided missile, Air Combat Group (ACG) of the Royal Australian Air Force has successfully carried out the first in-service 'Lock After Launch' firing of an ASRAAM (Advanced short-range air-to-air missile) at a target located behind the wing-line of the ‘shooter’ aircraft.
The firing was conducted from an F/A-18 fighter aircraft, at low level and typical fighter speed, at a target located behind the fighter at a range in excess of 5km. The result was a direct hit on the target.
The engagement simulated a "chase down" situation by an enemy fighter and successfully demonstrated the potential for an all-round self protection capability with the ASRAAM. This capability is inherent on all platforms that provide pre-launch 'over the shoulder' designation information such as F/A-18, Eurofighter Typhoon and F-35 JSF.
Commenting on the firing, a representative from Air Combat Group said “this demonstration of ASRAAM capability is a major step forward for the RAAF and greatly increases the lethality of ACG’s F/A-18 fleet. It is a credit to the RAAF-MBDA-DSTO team who worked together to deliver this capability edge to the fleet.”
ASRAAM entered service with the RAAF in July 2004. To provide unique levels of in-service support, facilities for deeper maintenance and software support were established in Adelaide injecting some AUS$20 million into the South Australian economy over a period of 6 years. The software support facility, located at the Defence Science & Technology Organisation at Edinburgh (SA), allows Australia to modify the ASRAAM software in response to the Australian Defence Force's specific requirements. The deeper maintenance facility established at BAE Systems at Edinburgh Park provides the in-country capability to support the front line equipment.
Having entered service with the Royal Air Force in 2002, and deployed on Tornado, Typhoon, and shortly F-35 JSF, the ASRAAM programme has provided a unique opportunity for information exchange between the respective air forces, government departments and scientific organisations.
MBDA will be exhibiting a range of advanced air and naval weapon systems at Avalon 2009 and welcomes visits at Stand 2H9, Hall B to discuss the warfighting capabilities they provide.
With industrial facilities in four European countries and within the USA, MBDA has an annual turnover of more than EUR 3 billion and an order book of more than EUR 13 billion. With more than 90 armed forces customers in the world, MBDA is a world leader in missiles and missile systems. MBDA is the only group capable of designing and producing missiles and missile systems that correspond to the full range of current and future operational needs of the three armed forces (land, sea and air). In total, the group offers a range of 45 missile systems and countermeasures products already in operational service and more than 15 others currently in development.
-ends-
Courtesy - MBDA.
Some video would be nice...
In a world first for an Air Force and an infra-red guided missile, Air Combat Group (ACG) of the Royal Australian Air Force has successfully carried out the first in-service 'Lock After Launch' firing of an ASRAAM (Advanced short-range air-to-air missile) at a target located behind the wing-line of the ‘shooter’ aircraft.
The firing was conducted from an F/A-18 fighter aircraft, at low level and typical fighter speed, at a target located behind the fighter at a range in excess of 5km. The result was a direct hit on the target.
The engagement simulated a "chase down" situation by an enemy fighter and successfully demonstrated the potential for an all-round self protection capability with the ASRAAM. This capability is inherent on all platforms that provide pre-launch 'over the shoulder' designation information such as F/A-18, Eurofighter Typhoon and F-35 JSF.
Commenting on the firing, a representative from Air Combat Group said “this demonstration of ASRAAM capability is a major step forward for the RAAF and greatly increases the lethality of ACG’s F/A-18 fleet. It is a credit to the RAAF-MBDA-DSTO team who worked together to deliver this capability edge to the fleet.”
ASRAAM entered service with the RAAF in July 2004. To provide unique levels of in-service support, facilities for deeper maintenance and software support were established in Adelaide injecting some AUS$20 million into the South Australian economy over a period of 6 years. The software support facility, located at the Defence Science & Technology Organisation at Edinburgh (SA), allows Australia to modify the ASRAAM software in response to the Australian Defence Force's specific requirements. The deeper maintenance facility established at BAE Systems at Edinburgh Park provides the in-country capability to support the front line equipment.
Having entered service with the Royal Air Force in 2002, and deployed on Tornado, Typhoon, and shortly F-35 JSF, the ASRAAM programme has provided a unique opportunity for information exchange between the respective air forces, government departments and scientific organisations.
MBDA will be exhibiting a range of advanced air and naval weapon systems at Avalon 2009 and welcomes visits at Stand 2H9, Hall B to discuss the warfighting capabilities they provide.
With industrial facilities in four European countries and within the USA, MBDA has an annual turnover of more than EUR 3 billion and an order book of more than EUR 13 billion. With more than 90 armed forces customers in the world, MBDA is a world leader in missiles and missile systems. MBDA is the only group capable of designing and producing missiles and missile systems that correspond to the full range of current and future operational needs of the three armed forces (land, sea and air). In total, the group offers a range of 45 missile systems and countermeasures products already in operational service and more than 15 others currently in development.
-ends-
Courtesy - MBDA.
Some video would be nice...
winnyfield
New Member
Australia interested in more C-130J transports
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...lia-interested-in-more-c-130j-transports.html
Sounds like a LM leak but a proposal for more -Js does have some merit. Be interesting to see how the interim 'King Air-for-Carbou' works out. Maybe future (2025) fleet composed of of Chinook>>C-130J>>C-17>>MRTT ?
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...lia-interested-in-more-c-130j-transports.html
Sounds like a LM leak but a proposal for more -Js does have some merit. Be interesting to see how the interim 'King Air-for-Carbou' works out. Maybe future (2025) fleet composed of of Chinook>>C-130J>>C-17>>MRTT ?
So there is no intention to replace the Caribous huh? Are the airframes of the 'bous too worn, or are they being gotten rid of just because they're old? Job can be done by the Chinooks in an effective manner?
Gonna be sad not seeing/hearing them in Townsville's skies - and that means no more fixed wings here
Gonna be sad not seeing/hearing them in Townsville's skies - and that means no more fixed wings here
It sounds like the C-130J is the preferred option; but then again they are preliminary discussions about a possible procurement in a few years time.
I don't think major new procurement decisions will be finalised until the Defence White Paper is released. This could be part of the final evaluation process for all serious contenders; ie working out all the details needed to get the aircraft in service.
I would like to see some C-27J capability (much like the US)
The A400M might still be an option, but the C-130J/C17 combination should be sufficient.
I don't think major new procurement decisions will be finalised until the Defence White Paper is released. This could be part of the final evaluation process for all serious contenders; ie working out all the details needed to get the aircraft in service.
I would like to see some C-27J capability (much like the US)
The A400M might still be an option, but the C-130J/C17 combination should be sufficient.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
So there is no intention to replace the Caribous huh? Are the airframes of the 'bous too worn, or are they being gotten rid of just because they're old? Job can be done by the Chinooks in an effective manner?
Gonna be sad not seeing/hearing them in Townsville's skies - and that means no more fixed wings here
The Bous are being replaced by King Air 300s as an interim replacement, waiting for AIR-8000 Battlefield Airlifter project to be decided under White Paper plans.
Whilst these don't do much transport work, the crews and maintainers get to work on a modern type, with a glass cockpit, modern engines and systems etc and the craft can do some utility tasks.
Australis still has 10 C-130H model Herks that need to be replaced sooner rather than later and there are plenty of options to choose from, hence an extensive airlift study is being conducted.
Options include:
1. Direct replacement for the H's with C-130J's.
2. Direct replacement of Bous by a C-27 or C-295 type aircraft.
2. Replacement of the H's and/or Bous by additional C-17 Globemasters and another type such as additional CH-47 Chinooks.
3. A mix between additional C-17 Globemasters and a smaller light transport capability, such as C-27 or C-295.
4. Direct replacement of the H's and Bou's by C-27/C-295.
There are plenty of option for RAAF and Government, with just as many rumours, such as this. Other persistent rumours include a 5th C-17, some C-27J's or C-295's and the previously announced additional 3x Chinooks, with another 3 on top of that.
We will all have to wait for the White Paper I expect however.
I believe there will only be 15 RAAF maintainer positions when they switch to the King Airs. Flight line positions only with the OLM and DLM being done by civvy contractors. The other 100 odd positions will be used to fill out ALG slots. Which is probably why Army were not concerned about handing them over, it wouldn't affect their CE to much.
While I see the need for extra Chooks, back to 12 airframes like when 12SQN operated them, having them as C130H or Bou replacements is a poor option although possibly politically and financially expedient. An extra C-17 or two as well as another 12 C130J-30 to replace the -H and Bous may well be a better mix. If this came to pass at least some of them should be fitted as AAR's (KC-130J) to provide a inflight refuel capability to the new CH-47's which should be AAR capable (usefull for Hornets to while we still have them)
While I see the need for extra Chooks, back to 12 airframes like when 12SQN operated them, having them as C130H or Bou replacements is a poor option although possibly politically and financially expedient. An extra C-17 or two as well as another 12 C130J-30 to replace the -H and Bous may well be a better mix. If this came to pass at least some of them should be fitted as AAR's (KC-130J) to provide a inflight refuel capability to the new CH-47's which should be AAR capable (usefull for Hornets to while we still have them)
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Mate, rumours abound. A 5th C-17 has a strong following as does pretty much all the other options I mentioned below.
Additional KC-30A's might also be on the cards, seeing as though Government wants it's "VIP jets" (very appropriate in this time of "financial crisis" but when have the "rules" ever applied to politicians?)
Everyone in the airlift business knows that RAAF has to replace the Bous and C-130Hs eventually, so every option on the table is being offered.
I have no idea what they are going to do, but RAAF doesn't seem overly worried about the "STOL" for PNG highlands" role that the Bous used to perform, anymore...
What that bodes is anyones guess at present...
I think I have made my feelings about the current crop of drongos running the country fairly well known, so I won't go there. 
On another topic I managed to get a look on board of the Wedgetail at Avalon last week. Looked very impressive with all the crew stations being interchangeable through use of software driven HMI. One eyebrow raiser was the use of a computer mouse intead of a Tacball ? and also noticed a spectrum analyser hard wired into one of the crew stations, no doubt for testing only. They had a recording playing on some of the displays which was interesting. The stations seem less cluttered than the NATO E-3 but I am unsure how they compare for functionality without having a play. They also had some blanking panels fitted for "future development" at each station. Sadly, I only got about 15mins on board as Boeing were showing plenty of VIPs (not me!!) through (to try and flog a few no doubt).
On another topic I managed to get a look on board of the Wedgetail at Avalon last week. Looked very impressive with all the crew stations being interchangeable through use of software driven HMI. One eyebrow raiser was the use of a computer mouse intead of a Tacball ? and also noticed a spectrum analyser hard wired into one of the crew stations, no doubt for testing only. They had a recording playing on some of the displays which was interesting. The stations seem less cluttered than the NATO E-3 but I am unsure how they compare for functionality without having a play. They also had some blanking panels fitted for "future development" at each station. Sadly, I only got about 15mins on board as Boeing were showing plenty of VIPs (not me!!) through (to try and flog a few no doubt).