Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

StingrayOZ

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
swerve said:
Poland operates none. The first two are scheduled to be delivered in August, i.e. two months from now. The first batch of pilots is still in training. Poland won't have 48 until 2028 under current plans. And they're FA-50 light fighters, not T-50 trainers.
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I stand corrected. However, having Poland as a future regular user of the F404 the idea that the F-18 would be difficult to support in Europe or Ukraine would seem to be a weak argument. There are advantages there.

Short field performance, heavy load out, durability, are all strengths of the F-18. I could see Ukraine making a mix of RAAF hornets, USMC other Hornets, and then filling out numbers with say KA-50 entirely believable.

They have said they want 200 fighters. Well that is a big ask. While the F-16 is low cost per flight hour, Gripen or KA-50 would be even better. If Ukraine was to get a mix match of fighter aircraft, having fighter aircraft all based around the same engine would be a huge advantage.

For the RAAF there would be opportunities there if it was to dispose of its Superhornets in the future as well.
Bob53 said:
It’s going to take time. Apparently the meeting room has been booked for the meeting to choose the font they will use to create the presentation to go to the minister.
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I think the Ukranians would want something faster than that. They would seem to have huge motivation particularly with the push going on. Even if they don't make it in time for the current summer push, it would be a huge, absolutely huge morale uplift to know that the Fighters are on their way very soon.

Can you imagine if Australia was fighting the Japanese in Papua, and the Americans announced deliveries of B17 bombers and P51's.
 
Mark_Evans

Mark_Evans

Member
Australian classic F18's are a sizeable fleet that is ready to go with support in training and maintenance infrastructure already available in Europe. They might pick up a few more donated by other nations but this would be a quick(ish) interim solution while a longer term solution is ironed out. Ukraine can then decide on a future solution when they have the time. I still believe the Gripen would be the ideal solution in the longer term. It would give Saab some needed sales as well.
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
Ex-RAAF F-18s plus NATO MLU F-16s would give them respectable numbers of two useful fighters, with compatible datalinks, for which some attrition replacements should be available at short notice. Neither type is a long-term solution, but they'd be useful gap fillers until new aircraft could be obtained.
 
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seaspear

Well-Known Member
With N.G.A.D should Australia be able to look at not just American but the Tempest program as well , I'm not sure when the performance specifications of these aircraft are released for comparison and how they match to what Australia identifies as required e.g. Tempest is claimed to be a long ranged stealth fighter , long range in theory should be an attraction ??
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
seaspear said:
With N.G.A.D should Australia be able to look at not just American but the Tempest program as well , I'm not sure when the performance specifications of these aircraft are released for comparison and how they match to what Australia identifies as required e.g. Tempest is claimed to be a long ranged stealth fighter , long range in theory should be an attraction ??
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Australia may have to look at Tempest as NGAD may be unavailable just like the F-22.
 
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seaspear

Well-Known Member
John Fedup said:
Australia may have to look at Tempest as NGAD may be unavailable just like the F-22.
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Would that also include the F/A-XX for the navy replacing the Super hornet family and is viewed as flying alongside the F-35C? ,There have been reports that these aircraft ay be more than double the price of the F-35s so it would be important to get it right
 
Mark_Evans

Mark_Evans

Member
seaspear said:
Would that also include the F/A-XX for the navy replacing the Super hornet family and is viewed as flying alongside the F-35C? ,There have been reports that these aircraft ay be more than double the price of the F-35s so it would be important to get it right
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The US Navy and Air Force fighters will be different beasts. Both probably using the same engines but the Navy one will be designed for aircraft carriers with harsh landings and launches. What does Australia really need?
 
R

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Mark_Evans said:
The US Navy and Air Force fighters will be different beasts. Both probably using the same engines but the Navy one will be designed for aircraft carriers with harsh landings and launches. What does Australia really need?
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Australia choose a USN Fighter over a USAF Fighter? Why not, been done before, the F-16 was the loser in 1982, though twin engines may have been the deciding factor at that time.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Redlands18 said:
Australia choose a USN Fighter over a USAF Fighter? Why not, been done before, the F-16 was the loser in 1982, though twin engines may have been the deciding factor at that time.
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The twin engine feature was also the reason the RCAF preferred the Hornet over the Falcon.
Mark_Evans said:
The US Navy and Air Force fighters will be different beasts. Both probably using the same engines but the Navy one will be designed for aircraft carriers with harsh landings and launches. What does Australia really need?
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The USAF NGAD will likely be larger so it should offer greater range, something the RAF would desire. The USN NGAD may have less exotic stealth technology so it may face less export restrictions. It is just too early to know what will be available.
 
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StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
John Fedup said:
The twin engine feature was also the reason the RCAF preferred the Hornet over the Falcon.

The USAF NGAD will likely be larger so it should offer greater range, something the RAF would desire. The USN NGAD may have less exotic stealth technology so it may face less export restrictions. It is just too early to know what will be available.
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NGAD is rumoured to be a 150 ton Rhodan sized affair, and likely to make LRIP pricing for F22 look cheap. I'm not ruling it out entirely but I think it's less likely.
 
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seaspear

Well-Known Member
In reading about some of these sixth generation aircraft they seem to be operated with accompanying drones as a system based approach ,Australia may be in a position to make such long range drones , the piloted aircraft come across as very large e.g. Tempest has been suggested to 22 metres in length but there is no official confirmation, a reason Australia may not have considered the stealth bomber was cost these sixth generation aircraft would have to budgeted for very carefully
 
ngatimozart

ngatimozart

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Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Enough of the fancy fleet stuff. NGAD (as far as the public are concerned), Tempest etc., are paper aircraft. No more flights of fantasy (pun intended).
 
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hauritz

Well-Known Member
I think the government has made it clear that unmanned combat aircraft will be the priority. The DSR made multiple references to developing the Ghost Bat, perhaps with US assistance, but no mention at all about replacing the SH. Theoretically the SH could stay in service until the end of the 2030s.

A lot could happen between now and then.

My theory is that there will be a wait and see approach to replacing the SH with a lot depending on how successful or otherwise the Ghost Bat program will be.

Wouldn’t discount the possibility that we won’t even be buying manned combat aircraft in the 2040s.
 
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Pusser01

The Bunker Group
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Mark_Evans

Mark_Evans

Member
A
Redlands18 said:
RAAF to deploy E-7A Wedgetail to support Ukraine effort - Australian Defence Magazine
The RAAF is deploying a E-7A and 100 personnel to Germany for 6 months to help protect the flow of Humanitarian and Military supplies into Ukraine. The aircraft nor any personnel will not enter Ukranian, Russian or Belorussian air space.
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Another chance to showcase the Wedgetail to the US. I understand the UK had to order two radar kits for the planes they did not end up going forward with. I wonder if they could be sold to the US to speed up the first two planes they want in action.
 
ngatimozart

ngatimozart

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Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Mark_Evans said:
A
Another chance to showcase the Wedgetail to the US. I understand the UK had to order two radar kits for the planes they did not end up going forward with. I wonder if they could be sold to the US to speed up the first two planes they want in action.
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You never know the Poms might change their minds re: Wedgetail. Stranger things have happened.
 
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