As AGRA has also suggested it would be a good thing for the guys who fly and operate the RAAF's fighters to make sure that the bureaucrats in DMO get the message re the cat bar. :shudder
Tas
Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
Tas
This is interesting, has the cannon been removed to save weight? Or has some other "equipment" been put in its stead. Given the position of the cannon and the importance of CoG to aircraft design maybe it is the latter? Or ballast even??
People are still being posted to SH positions so as far as the RAAF is concerned the project is still on track. The only thing that can be gained from cancelling the order is some cheap and short term political mileage over Brendan Nelson for the Govt. They couldn't be that petty and short sighted, could they? :shudder
The saga of the cat bar removal is a well known anecdote in the hornet world. I think we are finally starting to see the error of our ways by Australianising our aircraft. The classic Hornets we operate are vastly different to the US hornets because we have started with an Aussie version and then not carried out all the same mods as the USN/USMC. The RAAF has stated early on that the F-35's will have the same mods and updates as US aircraft so we keep up to date. Makes the process of managing your fleet easier to.
You would hope not but in politics anything is possible!
If the purchase is cancelled I hope the F-111 rundown is not past the point of no return. The loss of the F-111 by 2010, the reduction in the number of available classic Hornets and possible delays with the F-35, could see a 4 to 5 year period when the RAAF will have only around half the aircraft it needs to maintain pilot proficiency and morale in the air combat squadrons. I also worry that a temporary reduction in the size of the air combat force may give Treasury the idea that money could be saved by making the reduction permanent. :eek
This would certainly be the sensible way to go, IMO.
Tas
Barra according to wikipedia (yeah, I know don't trust wikipedia, but the information is referenced back to Boeing) :
"The Growler has more than 90% in common with the standard Super Hornet, sharing airframe, AESA radar and weapon systems such as the AN/AYK-22 Stores Management System. Most of the dedicated airborne electronic attack equipment is mounted in the space that used to house the internal 20 mm cannon and on the wingtips. Nine weapons stations remain free to provide for additional weapons or jamming pods."
This concludes my first semi comment
"The Growler has more than 90% in common with the standard Super Hornet, sharing airframe, AESA radar and weapon systems such as the AN/AYK-22 Stores Management System. Most of the dedicated airborne electronic attack equipment is mounted in the space that used to house the internal 20 mm cannon and on the wingtips. Nine weapons stations remain free to provide for additional weapons or jamming pods."
This concludes my first semi comment
Thanks for that Moebius, I am guilty of being to lazy to look for the info myself. Oh the shame.Barra according to wikipedia (yeah, I know don't trust wikipedia, but the information is referenced back to Boeing) :
"The Growler has more than 90% in common with the standard Super Hornet, sharing airframe, AESA radar and weapon systems such as the AN/AYK-22 Stores Management System. Most of the dedicated airborne electronic attack equipment is mounted in the space that used to house the internal 20 mm cannon and on the wingtips. Nine weapons stations remain free to provide for additional weapons or jamming pods."
This concludes my first semi comment
Makes sense remove the cannon and house EA equipment there. I hope they have improved access to this area, not much can be reached via doors 3 or 6 on a classic Hornet. Changing the RLCS overpressure valve is a bastard of a job at the best of times, lockwiring something you can't see at the extreme end of your reach. It's a good job to be supervising
"What haven't you got it yet" or the real killer "that lockwire is back to front, do it again". Wouldnt mind seeing one of those cutaway drawings of an EF-18G to see exactly what has been done to improve access, more doors I would assume.Good point Tas - fortunately someone is on to it!
DEFENCE UPDATE with Andrew McLaughlin
AUSTRALIAN AVIATION, MARCH 2008
It's all in the timing!
The review currently underway into the RAAF's air combat capability by new Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon was more or less expected given Labor's criticisms of the 2002 JSF and 2006 Super Hornet selection processes.
Interestingly, the review's timing does precede by some six to eight months the release of a new Defence White Paper due by the end of the year. But it should in no way be seen as a suggestion that the selected aircraft themselves are flawed. Instead, Defence insiders say a change of government was probably always going to result in high profile projects being reviewed.
When asked to give examples of projects which he felt were under performing during the PAC 08 naval conference and exhibition in Sydney in late January, Fitzgibbon named Navy's Seasprite helicopter and FFG frigate upgrade programs.
While the Seasprite is going nowhere in a hurry and at best won't be available until 2012, the FFG is more problematic. Three of the four ships have now been upgraded with the Mk 41 VLS (vertical launch system) for their surface-to-air missiles and new combat systems, while the fourth is currently being worked on. But the program has suffered from delays, and “Considerable risk remains to the delivery of contractually compliant capability to Navy, given the maturity of these systems,” the ANAO found last October.
With the air combat review, Fitzgibbon essentially has four choices: to continue the current plan to retire the F-111C and introduce the Super Hornet bridging capability from 2010, and then introduce the F-35 JSF from 2015 (or so); to cancel the Super Hornet deal and persist with the F-111C and the upgraded ‘classic' Hornets until JSF is ready; to still retire the F-111 force and make do with KC-30B tanker supported and stand-off missile armed classic Hornets (as per the former Coalition government's plan before the Super Hornet acquisition); or to go down a totally separate path such as request and, if approved, order the F-22.
A complicating factor is that time is running out for the F-111. If the F-111 is to be retained more than a few years, it will require ongoing upgrades to see it through to its revised life of type. Enhancements of the aircraft's ESM/EWSP system, the addition of J-class GPS guided weapons such as JDAM, and improved communications to give it a semi-networked capability will all be needed if the aircraft is going to successfully operate in a post 2012 combat environment. Further, refurbishment of discreet components throughout the aircraft will also be required on an ongoing basis. Upgrades take time, cost money, and result in reduced availability and capability during development and production.
And with only two years to go until the currently planned F-111 withdrawal, the training ‘pipeline' and support for the aircraft is being wound back to free up capacity for a smooth Super Hornet introduction. Once turned off, these are very difficult and very expensive to turn back on again.
Similarly, the deeper the RAAF goes into the Super Hornet acquisition process, the higher the currently estimated $500 million cancellation fee will be. In a recent interview, Chief of Defence Force Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston noted the risks of a drawn-out review. He said the RAAF would need to be “very nimble” to reverse the F-111 wind down process, which is well advanced (the last of the F-111G trainers, for example, were quietly retired last September).
Not surprisingly, the ever apolitical ACM Houston wouldn't be drawn on any political shenanigans behind the JSF and Super Hornet decisions, saying only, “I don't think I will go there.”
Fortunately, it appears as if the air combat review, at least, is being fast-tracked, with Australian Aviation understanding that it could be concluded as soon as May.
Meanwhile, it finally seems the Seasprite will soon be put out of its misery, with the DMO recently requesting urgent RFPs from Sikorsky and Eurocopter for up to 27 MH-60R/S or NFH 90 helicopters respectively to replace the Seasprite as well as the Seahawk under an accelerated Air 9000 Phase 8.
If the requirement is an urgent one, and one suspects it will be if Navy chooses to replace Seahawk and Seasprite at the same time, then Sikorsky with its proven MH-60R/S may be in the box seat due to ongoing delays with the naval variant of the NH 90. Such an acquisition would go against the goals of the Air 9000 rationalisation program. Conversely, it would provide an off-the-shelf and US interoperable solution in a shorter time scale.
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Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
Thanx Magoo...
Its refreshing to read a ballanced appraisal of the current political attitude re the RAAF's platform choices and aquisitions.
You wouldnt be pluging a 'college's' work would you?
Its refreshing to read a ballanced appraisal of the current political attitude re the RAAF's platform choices and aquisitions.
You wouldnt be pluging a 'college's' work would you?
Thanks for the detailed info Magoo. It provides an excellent summary of the situation the RAAF finds itself in. Thanks to AA and Andrew McLaughlin!Good point Tas - fortunately someone is on to it!
Tas
If you mean, am I plugging a colleague's work, then yep, always happy to plug a balanced view.Thanx Magoo...
Its refreshing to read a ballanced appraisal of the current political attitude re the RAAF's platform choices and aquisitions.
You wouldnt be pluging a 'college's' work would you?
You wouldnt be pluging a 'college's' work would you?
Defence journos rarely plug each others work....
Magoo is his own man.....
Strong RAAF presence in Hobart for Regatta
Eight RAAF aircraft are in Hobart for the Royal Hobart Regatta along with 4 naval helicopters which are visiting for the Regatta and Navy Week.
RAAF aircraft include 3 x FA-18B 2 seat Hornets (2 OCU), 3 x Hawk 127 lead in fighters (76 sqdn), 1 x C-17 Globemaster III transport and 1 x DCH-4 Caribou transport.
The C-17 and the Caribou have been providing flight experience for ADF reservists and cadets as well as impressing airport visitors with their short take off and landing capability.
Naval helicopters comprise 3 x AS-350BA Squirrels and 1 x A-109 Power.
Also visiting the city are the Anzac class frigate HMAS Parramatta, the submarine HMAS Collins and an army parachute display team.
Tas
Eight RAAF aircraft are in Hobart for the Royal Hobart Regatta along with 4 naval helicopters which are visiting for the Regatta and Navy Week.
RAAF aircraft include 3 x FA-18B 2 seat Hornets (2 OCU), 3 x Hawk 127 lead in fighters (76 sqdn), 1 x C-17 Globemaster III transport and 1 x DCH-4 Caribou transport.
The C-17 and the Caribou have been providing flight experience for ADF reservists and cadets as well as impressing airport visitors with their short take off and landing capability.
Naval helicopters comprise 3 x AS-350BA Squirrels and 1 x A-109 Power.
Also visiting the city are the Anzac class frigate HMAS Parramatta, the submarine HMAS Collins and an army parachute display team.
Tas
diggumsbang
Member
i have lived in country WA all my life and used to regularly drive past RAAF base pearce on my way up north. Could someone please inform me as to why there is no dedicated F/A-18 fighter squadron based here, only Hawk 127 LIFT's. would it be a fair argument that when/if we eventually acquire the SuperBugs and or JSF F-35 pearce might get a squadron? i know that WA is home to around 50% of the nations naval firepower, but we lack air defence... our vast mineral reserves of iron ore, gold, oil, gas etc are the cornerstone to our nations economy. the economic and military strengths of china and india are in need of what we have. would be great if anyone could shed some light as to why we dont have a dedicated air defence squadron in wa, would be awesome to hear your input
weasel1962
New Member
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The EA discussion points were part of an information session given at Avalon in Apr 2007 by Boeing.
I can confirm that the EA-18G has been extensively briefed to senior RAAF personnel by both Boeing and the US Navy.
Whether we get any or not is another matter...at around US$150m a pop, they aint cheap!
Although the F/A-18Fs and F-35s will have a strong integral EW capability, there is no formal requirement for a dedicated electronic attack aircraft for the RAAF.
Correct. The EF-111 also operated without ALQ-218s, just the Mk.1 version of the ALQ-99 plus a few other discreet and non-integrated jammers.weasel1962 said:
Magoo
weasel1962
New Member
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Hornet display at Royal Hobart Regatta
Three RAAF FA-18B Hornets (I presume from the tail markings that they are from 2 OCU) gave a great display at today's Royal Hobart Regatta. two navy Squirrels and a Jet Provost Mk5 from Top Gun Tasmania also entertained the crowd.
I have posted some photos in the DT Picture Section (available when approved) and they can also be seen on my blog at:
http://tasmansblog.blogspot.com/
The C-17 Globemaster that was also to give a display was a no show. I wonder if it has been recalled for despatch to East Timor following today's crisis?
Tas
Three RAAF FA-18B Hornets (I presume from the tail markings that they are from 2 OCU) gave a great display at today's Royal Hobart Regatta. two navy Squirrels and a Jet Provost Mk5 from Top Gun Tasmania also entertained the crowd.
I have posted some photos in the DT Picture Section (available when approved) and they can also be seen on my blog at:
http://tasmansblog.blogspot.com/
The C-17 Globemaster that was also to give a display was a no show. I wonder if it has been recalled for despatch to East Timor following today's crisis?
Tas
Nice pics Tas - looks a like a magic view you have there from your dining room - Very nice...
Re the Hornets, just because they have 2OCU tail markings doesn't mean much at the moment - they come out of HUG and are assigned to the various units as required. So in effect, the jets belong to 81WG until HUG is finished and they can be re-allocated to the squadrons.
Cheers
Magoo
Re the Hornets, just because they have 2OCU tail markings doesn't mean much at the moment - they come out of HUG and are assigned to the various units as required. So in effect, the jets belong to 81WG until HUG is finished and they can be re-allocated to the squadrons.
Correct.Tasman said:
Cheers
Magoo
Thanks Magoo
Barra indicated earlier that they were from 3 Squadron but the tail markings suggested 2 OCU. Your comment explains the anomaly.
Cheers
Tas
Nice pic Tas, did one of them do the handling display? The RAAF has a pilot whose "secondary duty" is to perform the handling display routine at airshows etc. Tough gig hey! The current pilot is a 2OCU jock.
Magoo is correct re sqn allocations with Hornets. 81WG refer to them as "grey tails" ie. the sqn markings on the jet are irrelevent. Transfer of a/c between sqn's is fluid and only requires transfer of maintenance paperwork/camm2 rights and removal of some sqn owned items and thats it. Literally takes ten minutes. I thought I noticed the Hobart regatta on 3SQNs weekly program, but I may be wrong.
Re East Timor, the C-17s prove there worth again. Can never have to much airlift I say. Last time the poo hit the fan in ET I got stranded in Tindal for an extra 3 days, not much fun after you have been there a month already and looking forward to going home.