Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

t68

t68

Well-Known Member
On an aviation forum I visit. Someone is suggesting that the classic Hornet deal done with the Canadians does not include the engines. Has anyone heard this or can confirm this. Seems a bit odd buying used aircraft and the engines are not part of the deal and you are buying a number of the them as parts hulks.

What would the engines be worth as a stand alone purchase?
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Haven’t heard that and I would think opposition MPs here would be screaming about engines not included. The first jets arrived with engines. Not sure if the RAAF would need over 40 used engines for their remaining classics which I believe will be phased out over the next few years as F-35s arrive.
 
t68

t68

Well-Known Member
40 deg south said:
Airbus targets special ops helicopter project - Australian Aviation

New NH90s for Special Forces use being delivered. Unfortunately, no info on how they differ from a plain vanilla NH90.
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As rotary aircraft come under Army it should be moved there, but as for the article the way it’s written is that AAAvn is getting 12 new helicopters, I must have missed this announcement I mean I heard about the LUH and there was a collaboration between AU/FR about a version of NH-90 for the speacials have heard nothing else tho.
 
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Redlands18

Well-Known Member
t68 said:
As rotary aircraft come under Army it should be moved there, but as for the article the way it’s written is that AAAvn is getting 12 new helicopters, I must have missed this announcement I mean I heard about the LUH and there was a collaboration between AU/FR about a version of NH-90 for the speacials have heard nothing else tho.
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As far as i have always thought it was 28 for 5 AVN and the School and 12 for the Spec Ops role. Numbers sound about right. 16-18 at 5 and 8-10 at the School feels about right.
I am no expert so i may be wrong. But it puts the Aircraft numbers similar to the Tiger sqns at 1Avn
 
J

Jack Wyatt

Member
t68 said:
On an aviation forum I visit. Someone is suggesting that the classic Hornet deal done with the Canadians does not include the engines. Has anyone heard this or can confirm this. Seems a bit odd buying used aircraft and the engines are not part of the deal and you are buying a number of the them as parts hulks.

What would the engines be worth as a stand alone purchase?
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Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade – Parliament of Australia

Senate Estimates confirmed the sale of 18 aircraft and spares to RCAF with two aircraft to transfer in 2019.

Question 59 asked by Sen Rex Patrick

  • Hearing Date 30/05/2018
  • Overdue No
  • Asked Of Department of Defence
  • Proof Hansard Page/Written 15-16
  • Portfolio Question Number 64
  • Question Air Marshal Davies: The Canadian government submitted an expression of interest in September of last year for us to consider. In February this year they extended that to include some spares and software testing articles. We are going through a normal process through CASG disposals to be able to provide the Canadian government with aircraft to meet their request as we begin to divest our classic F-18s as we transition to F-35.
    Senator PATRICK: We propose a price to them and they may or may not accept that-is that how it works?
    Air Marshal Davies: I am not part of the CASG disposal system, but that is effectively the case. We've said that as our aircraft become available we would go through a negotiation process through CASG to then make aircraft and spares available.
    Air Vice-Marshal Roberts: We provided a letter of cost proposal in December last year for 18 aircraft and spares to Canada. So we put a proposal through our disposals area to them and agree on a sale price and scope with them.
    Senator PATRICK: When is it likely for them to pick up that offer?
    Air Vice-Marshal Roberts: They accepted our offer in December last year, but they have also put in a further request for some seven aircraft for system testing, training and spares.
    Senator PATRICK: So how much do we get per aircraft?
    Air Vice-Marshal Roberts: I'd have to take that on notice in terms of the actual price per aircraft. It is a general offer. It's not done per aircraft. But I can take that on notice and get back you to on the actual cost that we agreed with Canada.+ Expand Question
  • Answer
    1. We propose a price to them and they may or may not accept that-is that how it works?

    Defence provided a Letter of Cost Proposal (LoCP) to Canada for their consideration. In addition, all F/A-18A/aircraft are subject to final United States Government approval prior to sale to another country.

    2. When is it likely for them to pick up that offer?

    Pending finalisation of the agreement, two aircraft will be flown to Canada in the first half of 2019. The remaining aircraft will be transported, at Candian expense, as they become available.

    3. So how much do we get per aircraft?

    Final agreement on the price is yet to be reached by both Governments.


500th Centre Fuselage produced for F35 is an RAAF aircraft.
Northrop Grumman delivers 500th F-35 fuselage
 
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M

Morgo

Well-Known Member
https://venturaapdr.partica.online/...o-jointly-develop-uninhabited-combat-aircraft


Re Loyal Wingman - the above APDR article indicates a 3,700 km range with a two tonne payload. Surely this must be ferry range, not combat range?

Otherwise this means that from Christmas Island the whole of the SCS and the southern Chinese coast would be within unrefueled range of an aircraft carrying a load of 8x SDB, 4x NSM, or 2x LRASM.

Potentially a very significant capability indeed if fielded in numbers, which seems to be the intent.
 
aussienscale

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Morgo said:
https://venturaapdr.partica.online/...o-jointly-develop-uninhabited-combat-aircraft


Re Loyal Wingman - the above APDR article indicates a 3,700 km range with a two tonne payload. Surely this must be ferry range, not combat range?

Otherwise this means that from Christmas Island the whole of the SCS and the southern Chinese coast would be within unrefueled range of an aircraft carrying a load of 8x SDB, 4x NSM, or 2x LRASM.

Potentially a very significant capability indeed if fielded in numbers, which seems to be the intent.
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Yep would be range, not combat radius.

Weapons wise, this is just usual media speculation, everything official released from both Defmin/Gov and Boeing is that this platform will be ISR & EW.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves

Cheers
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
t68 said:
On an aviation forum I visit. Someone is suggesting that the classic Hornet deal done with the Canadians does not include the engines. Has anyone heard this or can confirm this. Seems a bit odd buying used aircraft and the engines are not part of the deal and you are buying a number of the them as parts hulks.

What would the engines be worth as a stand alone purchase?
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This article provides some clarification on the engines. Apparently the engine removal only applies to the first two used Hornets.

RCAF may not need seven of the 25 used Australian F-18s, says defence procurement chief
 
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R

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
aussienscale said:
Yep would be range, not combat radius.

Weapons wise, this is just usual media speculation, everything official released from both Defmin/Gov and Boeing is that this platform will be ISR & EW.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves

Cheers
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I suspect this Project is going to be a real Birth, Crawl, Toddle, Walk, Jog, Run Project and it will be well into the 2030s before we see a Aircraft in Sqn Service.
 
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rossfrb_1

Member
R

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
rossfrb_1 said:
In a confusing mix of current and future tense:
RAAF gets four new EW aircraft - Australian Defence Magazine
RAAF may have received or will receive 4 of those G550 aircraft no one wants to talk about.
I suspect more likely the latter case as previous projections suggested they would enter service in the early 2020s. Maybe the paperwork was finalised?
e.g. https://www.raafa.org.au/sites/default/files/Wings Summer17-V7.pdf
To be known as the MC-55A Peregrine.
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If they are already in service then the RAAF are doing a brilliant job of hiding them, as sooner or later they would be filmed by someone in the Public considering nearly all our Air Bases have some form of Public viewing access.
 
G

Gjwai

New Member
This could be RAN or RAAF, but I think the F-35A Integration puts this into Air Force territory.
Australia integrates AWD destroyer with F-35A during Diamond Shield

I would have thought that the integration of our newest ship with our newest fighter was pretty big news, I'm surprised this hasn't been reported more broadly.
(Maybe it has been and I'm looking in the wrong places). Controlling 30 airborne assets at once sounds massive, considering our size.
 
Tasman

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
Gjwai said:
This could be RAN or RAAF, but I think the F-35A Integration puts this into Air Force territory.
Australia integrates AWD destroyer with F-35A during Diamond Shield

I would have thought that the integration of our newest ship with our newest fighter was pretty big news, I'm surprised this hasn't been reported more broadly.
(Maybe it has been and I'm looking in the wrong places). Controlling 30 airborne assets at once sounds massive, considering our size.
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I agree that this is big news but the Australian media appears to have little interest in defence matters other than things that are controversial or problematic.

Joint operations involving all three services seems to have taken big strides forward in recent times, with the joint task force participating in Indo Pacific Endeavour 2019, involving all three services, being another outstanding example. IMO this makes so much sense for a small military like the ADF.

Tas
 
R

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Richo99 said:
This one slipped under the radar...

First new VIP aircraft for RAAF nears completion - Australian Defence Magazine

Interesting that the bbj's are being retained and upgraded for regional use. Seems like a reasonable offset against the costs of the new (leased) falcons.
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Now why wouldn’t they make a big announcement about brand new Government VIP Jets?
May have something to do with the imminent Election Date announcement:D
Flash new Luxery Jets should win a few votes.....not
 
t68

t68

Well-Known Member
Redlands18 said:
Now why wouldn’t they make a big announcement about brand new Government VIP Jets?
May have something to do with the imminent Election Date announcement:D
Flash new Luxery Jets should win a few votes.....not
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To be honest I’m not fussed about our PM or GG having VIP aircraft, it’s the price of soft diplomacy.

But what does annoy me is the cabinet minister and jnr minister abusing their position in regards for these flights for personal reason or doing the bishop of hiring a helicopter from Tullamarine-Geelong when it’s a short drive that really piss’s me off
 
S

SteveR

Active Member
t68 said:
To be honest I’m not fussed about our PM or GG having VIP aircraft, it’s the price of soft diplomacy.

But what does annoy me is the cabinet minister and jnr minister abusing their position in regards for these flights for personal reason or doing the bishop of hiring a helicopter from Tullamarine-Geelong when it’s a short drive that really piss’s me off
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I did some time at Russell Offices while my family was interstate and I know the burden that was on my wife and kids. Our federal MPs outside nearby NSW electorates have to be absent from their families for 1/3 of the year and for many their MP or ministers pay is far less than an equivalent commercial career. If a minister comes from WA, NT or north Queensland he/she has to spend hours on the plane away from family before and after every sitting and if they are a minister they have to spend much more time in Canberra or away from home on government business.

I see the politics of envy raised whenever we moan about our MPs or Ministers take a little bit of luxury to spend more to with their family.
 
J

jack412

Active Member
Some years ago. After the jurno's had a shot at running the VIP jet for the WA to Canberra shuttle, at times commercial flights were available. The jurno's were stuck in the back of a C-130 on a trip and didn't get to ride in the VIP jet. It seems it taught them the error of their ways. It's crickets chirping now.
 
t68

t68

Well-Known Member
SteveR said:
I did some time at Russell Offices while my family was interstate and I know the burden that was on my wife and kids. Our federal MPs outside nearby NSW electorates have to be absent from their families for 1/3 of the year and for many their MP or ministers pay is far less than an equivalent commercial career. If a minister comes from WA, NT or north Queensland he/she has to spend hours on the plane away from family before and after every sitting and if they are a minister they have to spend much more time in Canberra or away from home on government business.

I see the politics of envy raised whenever we moan about our MPs or Ministers take a little bit of luxury to spend more to with their family.
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I have no problem them travelling business class on regional routes to and from CBR, just don't like the abuse that they try to pass off as parliamentary duty , magically doing business when concerts and so fourth are on, I understand being away from home for long periods im gone for up to 240 nights a year and get no where near what they earn plus living away entitlements
 
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