Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Indeed. He may be right about it being possible to pull off a coup de main against Tasmania, or at least a part of it, but it's obvious he hasn't thought through what would happen next. Think Yorktown, or Kabul 1841*, or Stalingrad* . . . . Outnumbered, surrounded, nowhere to go, no help coming . . . :D

*But without the snow.
It might be possible. If you had 20 suicidal special operations personnel or "several parachute regiments".

Notwithstanding of course that Indonesia doesn't have the airlift capacity to deliver a single parachutist to Tasmania, let alone "several regiments", but anyway, why let reality get in the way of things?

Anyway. I'm off to single handedly enslave Indonesia this weekend. If any of you want to come, I'm afraid you'll have to open up a consulate first... :eek:nfloorl:
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
The reason you would take Tasmania, come up from the south, coz no one thinks anyone would try to invade the joint.

Been lotsa battles and wars won by taking objectives thought impossible to take and not worth worrying about.

I think its just the 14/20 tas regt or similar that is a reserve unit, a patrol boat if lucky, and maybe a PC3 on a good day to defend the joint. Its anyones for the taking, as would be Melbourne or Adelaide. Theres not much about in the southern states.

Youre then what is it? 150k from the mainland with nothing to do but wait for airstrikes from the north?

Take Hobart with 20 Special Forces troops, from a Sub. Parachute in a coupla regts of Infantry to Launny and Hobart. A few Antonovs loaded with gear. Then a few Sukois from long range tankers, 500 troops from a dodgy Antartic research vessel and viola! youre own piece of Australia.

Be a piece of cake, I shoulda been an Indonesian general.

Logistically it would be unachievable, even if you could actually get there form anywere, which you cant apart from New Zealand (and i soubt the Kiwi's hate the wallabies that much...). They might be able to get enough food locally but if they have to actually shoot at anyone theyregoing to be low on ammo pretty quick.

Anyway we could probably insert 3RAR in a matter of hours, the difference is we could actually supply them with all that handy stuff like bullets... then we could airlift in the best part of a brigade within a few days once we secured an airstrip. And you know if we wanted to take our time we could move 1 brigade down and give those indo's a real pounding. Pluss we would have total air superiority, even a squad of bugs out of point cook (assuming we still have some tankers as they are being retired without replacement ATM) would be a nightmare for everyone down south. This is all if someone actually landed adecent force on tassie, which thay cant anyway. So basicaly its unacieveable operation that would lead to the destruction of anything you sent down there. Perhaps not the best idea????
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
If you're going to invade, then you need to sieze and hold ground. light forces can do that for maybe 2-4 days while they wait for larger elements to kick in.

The logistics tail alone would mean that heavy forces would have to be in transit within 3 days of the light prelim invasion force starting out.

I'd be less than enthusiastic to be an Indon general trying to traverse JORN managed battlespace, as well as having to deal with subs coming from the west coast.

RAAF would have a field day picking off the invaders, they would be locked onto Tassie with nowhere to go and with only 2 airports to utilise. That makes targetting a dream for the defender. Similarly, trying to offload an invasion force in deep water means two spots as well.

I'd like to see any invader try and manage Bass Strait without any local knowledge.....

It would be a turkey shoot....

Logistics and momentum is the key - extended maritime invasion lines just don't work (esp once steam took over from sail). Look at history and see how they're all relatively short. Or look at Tawian. Thats 90km's and thats a nightmare scenario as it requires considerable overmatch. A 4-5000km invasion journey would be an unmitigated disaster. They can be harassed from air for 3/4's of the trip, they can be harassed by subs at a higher rate, and they would get picked off at changeover points. All of their power has to be organic, they cannot escalate as they have finite resources and they cannot afford to get into a protracted contact as again their munitions are restricted as the bulk of the weaponry is designed to be used for sieze and hold. So there will be limited weaponry at an organic level to defend the fleet from land based and long range defenders who can overwatch and re-arm from points outside the reach of the attackers.

You're right. You should be the enemy general. ;)
 
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Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
Pluss we would have total air superiority, even a squad of bugs out of point cook (assuming we still have some tankers as they are being retired without replacement ATM) would be a nightmare for everyone down south.
Air strikes from the mainland would probably not even require tankers. F-111s routinely fly training missions over Tasmania's SW, operating out of Amberley in Queensland!

Besides, the small enemy force (which is all that could realistically be landed) would be subject to harrassment from the local population, both ARes units and armed civilians. Even though the current gun legislation that was brought in after Port Arthur removed a lot of weapons there are still a large number of well armed deer, roo, duck and competitive shooters in the state and deer and roo hunters in particular, have an excellent knowledge of the Tasmanian bush. The initial landing party would be hard pressed even to survive, yet alone hold ground until reinforcements could arrive. As mentioned by others such reinforcements would be unlikely ever to complete the trip as the RAAF and RAN would have comparatively easy pickings.

Tas
 

icelord

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Its about time we bought from the motherland!
HAHAHAHA

How come they complain about the costs of F-35 rising, and SH, yet the F22 is over double the F-35 cost, and is not politically viable atm.
You would think having the last PM who is best mates with the US president would have done more then a guy who's friends are in china...they did say ALL options were on the table right...I have a hot tip, chinese built planes!
 

winnyfield

New Member
The reason you would take Tasmania, come up from the south, coz no one thinks anyone would try to invade the joint.

Been lotsa battles and wars won by taking objectives thought impossible to take and not worth worrying about.
I don't think anything like rounding the Australian mainland and hitting Tassie has ever been done - Australia is a f**king big place (Sydney-Perth>London-Moscow).

The landing force at Incheon (perfect outflanking strategy) and Normandy didn't have to go as far. The British during the Falklands had a very small point to concentrate on and had the Atlantic to their backs from which it was a stright-line route. The only ppl who have capability to think of something like Tassie are the Americans.
 

winnyfield

New Member
You would think having the last PM who is best mates with the US president would have done more then a guy who's friends are in china...they did say ALL options were on the table right...I have a hot tip, chinese built planes!
Being friends with the US Prez doesn't count for much (we also like to think of ourselves as invaluable to the US but we're not). It's Congress that has control of procurement, they're the ones with restrictions on the sales (Cheny has tried many times to kill the MV-22 Osprey but to no avail). Best thing to do is to lobby members of Congress that control the purse strings and those with interest in F-22 production to ease up on the rules.

However, with the current problems with the F-15, more F-22s are likely to be approved and so there is less incentive (F-22 jobs) to let it get exported.
 

Jezza

Member
Being friends with the US Prez doesn't count for much (we also like to think of ourselves as invaluable to the US but we're not). It's Congress that has control of procurement, they're the ones with restrictions on the sales (Cheny has tried many times to kill the MV-22 Osprey but to no avail). Best thing to do is to lobby members of Congress that control the purse strings and those with interest in F-22 production to ease up on the rules.

However, with the current problems with the F-15, more F-22s are likely to be approved and so there is less incentive (F-22 jobs) to let it get exported.
And bet your bottom dollar they wont 100% USAF birds.
They will downgraded birds...............
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
I don't think anything like rounding the Australian mainland and hitting Tassie has ever been done - Australia is a f**king big place (Sydney-Perth>London-Moscow).

The landing force at Incheon (perfect outflanking strategy) and Normandy didn't have to go as far. The British during the Falklands had a very small point to concentrate on and had the Atlantic to their backs from which it was a stright-line route. The only ppl who have capability to think of something like Tassie are the Americans.
C'mon boys the whole things a joke. NO ONE (bar the USN) is going to be able to deal with the RAAF & RAN on the trip down the eastern sea board, It'll be the "great Tasman turkey shoot". Unless you deside to sail through the indian ocean, round the cape of good hope, passed the horn, across the pacific, passed the kiwi's and on to tassie you wont be able to aviod fighting the ADF within our sensor footprint. Allthough you would have lines of communication that streached, litterally, arround the globe. (Talk about a field day for a collins driver, he'd be an ace in a matter of days). Of cource we would probably be well aware of their intentions in advance of them arriving off Hobart, which would allow us to move assets south in advance. Its basically not gonna happen. Darwin would be a better prospect, allthough even that would not be much fun considering the sensor coverage and ADF presence.

Jezza said:
And bet your bottom dollar they wont 100% USAF birds.
They will downgraded birds...............
A export versoin of the F35 or F22 will be more capable than practically any other contenders. 70% VLO (that number is a wild guess) is still 70% better than ANY other fighter on the market, and that doesnt even touch on the avionics/EW suite/EO suite/HUI/Radar ext ext ext. What capability the US platforms will have is irrelevent, what capabilities OUR platforms will have is the only thing that matters.
 

Grand Danois

Entertainer
The F-35 exports probably won't be degraded. There was a fuss about it recently regarding a change of "stealth terminlogy", but that seemingly applied to the US versions as well.
 

winnyfield

New Member
I'm skeptical of hostile incursion on the Australian mainland but here's a hypothetical question - if Indonesia goes extreme and starts turning on its minority population (eg. Chinese, West Papuans) also possibly invading PNG and pissing off their neighbours; Does the RAAF have the capability to unilaterally launch and sustain an air campaign against the Indonesian military and significantly curtail their operations so as 'to bring them to peace talks'? (think Kosovo and Operation Linebacker)

How effective are airstrikes in a tropical jungle anyway?
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
I'm skeptical of hostile incursion on the Australian mainland but here's a hypothetical question - if Indonesia goes extreme and starts turning on its minority population (eg. Chinese, West Papuans) also possibly invading PNG and pissing off their neighbours; Does the RAAF have the capability to unilaterally launch and sustain an air campaign against the Indonesian military and significantly curtail their operations so as 'to bring them to peace talks'? (think Kosovo and Operation Linebacker)

How effective are airstrikes in a tropical jungle anyway?
I'm sure it possesses some capability to do so, yes. But then such an operation would need to be UN Sanctioned anyway and we all know what happens when the UN tries to decide something:

Nothing...

With JDAM, LGB's and new generation targetting pods? I expect RAAF's capability to conduct airstrikes into jungle environments would be fairly high...
 

lobbie111

New Member
IMHO...First of all, we wouldn't need aircraft if Indoneasia invaded all we would need are warships up the top end as they have no serious air capability nor a serious naval ability (their frigates are rusting in their docks).

If we were to commence such and operation we would probably keep air strikes to minimum instead making full use of our ARH tiger capability. I don't think we will send many troops, 4RAR, maybe a Motorised Rgt. and the SAS for the initial assult. If it goes to hell we would put in 1st Armoured and and ASLAV Rgt. What I am saying is only an initial RAAF strike capability will be needed olny sustainment operations of globemasters and hercules. We would use caribous for intra theatre across indonesia whislt we will use the blackhawks and MRH90's for short range transport.
 

icelord

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
hey there were rumors about Australia acquiring F-22's right?? What happened?
Heads up, theres a reason hes only the IceKID...gotta catch up with the Lord:D

If Russia ever gets there act together with Logisitics, maintanence and on time they could rival some Euro companies when it comes to purchases...but not with the ADF!
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
If Somebody tries to take PNG that is an entirely different situation to domestic trouble within Indonesia. If somebody tried to take PNG I think you would find Australia would get very quick rubber stamping for what ever it needed to fix it.

They wouldn't need a massive navy nor a massive airforce. The annexed the east with less than what they have now.

If it was to happen in approximately 5 years time, Australia would have atleast one LHD (maybe two) operational, A few AWD operational. Tigers would be operational, Superhornets would be operational perhaps some F-35 operational, F-111 could proberly be somewhat operational. C-17's would be operational. Given enough time Australia would be able to secure several HSC's, a roro or two, wedgetail and a2a refuelers should be operational, some coalition support (brits, Kiwi and the rest of the usual crew), US support yes unless they are busy in Iran or China etc.

Proberly a full strength Brigade atleast. We would go all in. If its supported by some branch of the military then massive airstrike on them. Aircraft would be essential for recon.

If its a domestic thing within Indonesia proberly not as much and far more cautious.
 
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