Royal Air Force (RAF-UK) Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Jambo_100
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Glad to have the costing cleared up 
AFAIK it is a single Adour, IIRC Dassault's nEUROn used the same engine but i'm fairly sure it's been chucked out for something based on the more powerful M88. So then would it be possible for something like the EJ2000 to be shoehorned in to Taranis?
IIRC the current plan is just concept demonstrator and giving the MOD/BAE all the relevant data for these current ops. So chances are it would be be bigger.
AFAIK it is a single Adour, IIRC Dassault's nEUROn used the same engine but i'm fairly sure it's been chucked out for something based on the more powerful M88. So then would it be possible for something like the EJ2000 to be shoehorned in to Taranis?
IIRC the current plan is just concept demonstrator and giving the MOD/BAE all the relevant data for these current ops. So chances are it would be be bigger.
If Taranis is about the size of a Hawk and is mean to be high subsonic, then the Adour engine will be fine. It depends if Taranis is meant to go supersonic - if not, then adding an EJ200 or similar would be a bit superfluous I expect. Unless they left the augmenter out ?
Even so- that's a big chunk of change to spend on an engine.
Even so- that's a big chunk of change to spend on an engine.
Adour is OK -
IF Son of Taranis is going to be the same size & IF we want to keep putting 1960s engines into newly designed airframes for decades to come. Adour has a poor thrust to weight ratio by current standards, a very poor T/W ratio compared to EJ200 or M88, & the higher T/W ratio of those newer engines carries no sfc penalty.
I've read that the French are looking at a non-afterburning M88 for Son of Neuron. I imagine that Son of Taranis would also remain subsonic, & use a non-afterburning engine.
IF Son of Taranis is going to be the same size & IF we want to keep putting 1960s engines into newly designed airframes for decades to come. Adour has a poor thrust to weight ratio by current standards, a very poor T/W ratio compared to EJ200 or M88, & the higher T/W ratio of those newer engines carries no sfc penalty.
I've read that the French are looking at a non-afterburning M88 for Son of Neuron. I imagine that Son of Taranis would also remain subsonic, & use a non-afterburning engine.
Some nice pictures tweeted by FlightAcesHigh (if you're on Twitter I recommend it) showing a A400M landing at RAF Brize Norton. Before anyone gets their hopes up, it's not ours. Ours aren't due to be coming until Sept 2014 apparently.
My understanding is that the RAF will - in the future - have an airlift component definitely including 8 C-17's & 22 A400M, but what's the plan with the C-130's?
AFAIK the plan is that the C130K's will be gone by the end of the year, leaving C-17/C130J so the A400M will effectively be phasing out the C-130J right?
If so, i'd like a couple more A400M's or another C-17. 8 C-17 & 22 A400M doesn't seem like a whole lot really, but i'm taking baby steps with the RAF so.
My understanding is that the RAF will - in the future - have an airlift component definitely including 8 C-17's & 22 A400M, but what's the plan with the C-130's?
AFAIK the plan is that the C130K's will be gone by the end of the year, leaving C-17/C130J so the A400M will effectively be phasing out the C-130J right?
If so, i'd like a couple more A400M's or another C-17. 8 C-17 & 22 A400M doesn't seem like a whole lot really, but i'm taking baby steps with the RAF so.
I am curious, would that leave a gap for a tactical airlifter of some sort? C27J, CN295 etc. or will the UK rely on helos to fill this requirement?
My own guess would've been an agreement, considering we're upping our complement of Chinooks up to 60 post-Afghan (or, the last order of 14 won't reach the RAF until then) so they will be playing a bigger role. But it's important to remember that the RAF does plan on using the A400M in a tactical transport context as well as a strategic airlifter. They do throw the terms around very freely on the A400M's profile on te RAF website but it specifically talks about how it'll also be used for transporting troops/equipment within theatre.
RAF - A400M
The RAF did buy 2 modified BAE 146 quick change transports "Acquired to help meet the UK's intra-theatre lift requirements inside Afghanistan".
Sounds cool and everything, but there's only 2 of them.
PICTURE: RAF takes delivery of BAe 146 C3 transports
RAF - A400M
The RAF did buy 2 modified BAE 146 quick change transports "Acquired to help meet the UK's intra-theatre lift requirements inside Afghanistan".
Sounds cool and everything, but there's only 2 of them.
PICTURE: RAF takes delivery of BAe 146 C3 transports
Nice bit of into tweeted out by the defence correspondant for the Sunday Times, which will be neat if confirmed.
Good step forward for the Typhoon towards getting towards a more substantial multi-role capability.
6 Squadron Take Paveway to Typhoon
But this is the sort of progress we need for the RAF, with Tornado due to bow out in 2019 (March, I think) we're going to be having a big gap in capability. When the F35B gains IOC in the UK it'll have AMRAAM, ASRAAM and Paveway IV integrated on it, so when Tornado goes, based on the RAF's current armoury they will be missing the following if Tiffy doesn't get them
Thankfully, however, we know that Storm Shadow and Brimstone are being pushed for integration with Typhoon and IIRC he first flight of a Typhoon with Storm Shadow is due later in the year with full integration sheduled for 2015/2016 with a similar timeframe for Brimstone 2.
There's been a bit of chatter about how the lack of an AShM on the Typhoon does impact on it's export chances, labelling countries like India which would require such a capability. IMO it's something which should be persued considering the MOD isn't currently planning on getting one for the F35 (well, not NSM anyway), as should some form of ARM for the F35, i'd even advocate buying AARGM OTS from the US considering how quiet MBDA is on the matter. Hell, IIRC the requirement for Typhoon was dropped so unless it's picked up then the F35 is our only platform for it.
6 Squadron Take Paveway to Typhoon
Would rather it be a more crucial weapon as - IIRC - Paveway II can be deployed from Tranche 1 Typhoons, again, I think.
But this is the sort of progress we need for the RAF, with Tornado due to bow out in 2019 (March, I think) we're going to be having a big gap in capability. When the F35B gains IOC in the UK it'll have AMRAAM, ASRAAM and Paveway IV integrated on it, so when Tornado goes, based on the RAF's current armoury they will be missing the following if Tiffy doesn't get them
- Storm Shadow
- Brimstone (2)
- ALARM
- Paveway III
Thankfully, however, we know that Storm Shadow and Brimstone are being pushed for integration with Typhoon and IIRC he first flight of a Typhoon with Storm Shadow is due later in the year with full integration sheduled for 2015/2016 with a similar timeframe for Brimstone 2.
There's been a bit of chatter about how the lack of an AShM on the Typhoon does impact on it's export chances, labelling countries like India which would require such a capability. IMO it's something which should be persued considering the MOD isn't currently planning on getting one for the F35 (well, not NSM anyway), as should some form of ARM for the F35, i'd even advocate buying AARGM OTS from the US considering how quiet MBDA is on the matter. Hell, IIRC the requirement for Typhoon was dropped so unless it's picked up then the F35 is our only platform for it.
Interesting news coming out of Malaysia, apparently they want their next fast jet purchase to be maritime strike capable, resulting in models from BAE showing Harpoon integrated onto the Eurofighter.
Could be good for the UK, that's for sure, could then lead onto LRASM which is effectively Harpoon's replacement too.
EDIT: adding this Typhoon article, makes for good reading
http://media.aerosociety.com/aerospace-insight/2013/03/08/typhoon-the-best-is-yet-to-come/7851/
Could be good for the UK, that's for sure, could then lead onto LRASM which is effectively Harpoon's replacement too.
EDIT: adding this Typhoon article, makes for good reading
http://media.aerosociety.com/aerospace-insight/2013/03/08/typhoon-the-best-is-yet-to-come/7851/
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ALARM will be out of service by the time Tornado goes.
Oh wow, that's not nice to hear, considering Typhoon isn't going to get it and the F35B won't have it when it reaches IOC as things stand, that's a big gap.
There was the smallest of whispers about a version of Meteor being able to do it, apparently the Saudi's use ALARM on their Tornados so maybe they want to push it onto Typhoon too?
I dunno, nothing's being done about developing a solution. There's a lot to be said for buying HARM OTS for the F35B IMO, integration with the F35 is already on the cards and it'd be an effective force multiplier. F35B's conducting effective SEAD/DEAD allows us to bring our Typhoons into play, I keep thinking back to the MBDA graphic of SPEAR 3, there's a Typhoon loaded with 2 ASRAAM, 4 AMRAAM (Meteor in the future) & 16 SPEAR 3.
That's a world of pain right there.
kev 99
Member
If it's not SPEAR Capability 3 I'll buy a large selection of hats to eat.
Hell of a capability, 4 per bay.
Anyway in other news, the first of the RAF's new Chinook Mk6s took to the skies in Arizona on March 15th - just announced by Boeing.
That's one shining light in the SDSR, all the talk about the UK not having enough of a rotary lift capacity in Afghanistan and we still get +14 Chinooks effectively post-Afghanistan.
Anyway in other news, the first of the RAF's new Chinook Mk6s took to the skies in Arizona on March 15th - just announced by Boeing.
New RAF Mk6 Chinook completes first flight - News - Shephard
That's one shining light in the SDSR, all the talk about the UK not having enough of a rotary lift capacity in Afghanistan and we still get +14 Chinooks effectively post-Afghanistan.
The UK's pair of BAE 146 tactical transports have been released for service, not a bad little deal to be honest. 96 passengers or 10.6t of freight and the pair cost £47mn including both procurement and conversion.
PICTURES: Converted BAe 146s cleared for RAF operations
PICTURES: Converted BAe 146s cleared for RAF operations
The RAF's first Airseeker (RC-135) was unveiled by L-3 communications a few days ago, 3 weeks after being actually rolled out
UK's first RC-135 Airseeker rolled out, USAF reveals
IMO this is the sort of approach a cash-strapped air force like the UK should go for in regards to the more niche capabilities where we'll only need a handful of airframes (i.e US solutions), another situation of this would be the P-8. By all means go for a native solution, British jobs and all that, but economically there is a limit.
Hopefully Sentinel is due to remain in service post-2015. There was talk about how they were supposed to be gone as soon as Afghanistan is done, but the sort of work they've been doing and the capacity to plug in with allies like in Mali has caused there to be a rethink, the general idea around now is that it's another decision down to be taken in SDSR-2015. Not the best situation, but much more favourable than being axed before the SDSR even takes place.
For the record, i've only really started reading up on RAF ELINT/SIGINT capabilities.
UK's first RC-135 Airseeker rolled out, USAF reveals
They're going to No 51 squadron based at RAF Waddington. It's an interesting turn of events as currently we've got 2 Nimrod R1s which are being replaced by 3 Airseeker. The R1's appeared to be high in demand, IIRC there was chatter about their OSD being extended due to a deployment of one to Cyprus to support Op. Ellamy.
IMO this is the sort of approach a cash-strapped air force like the UK should go for in regards to the more niche capabilities where we'll only need a handful of airframes (i.e US solutions), another situation of this would be the P-8. By all means go for a native solution, British jobs and all that, but economically there is a limit.
Hopefully Sentinel is due to remain in service post-2015. There was talk about how they were supposed to be gone as soon as Afghanistan is done, but the sort of work they've been doing and the capacity to plug in with allies like in Mali has caused there to be a rethink, the general idea around now is that it's another decision down to be taken in SDSR-2015. Not the best situation, but much more favourable than being axed before the SDSR even takes place.
For the record, i've only really started reading up on RAF ELINT/SIGINT capabilities.
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A4kscooter
Member
The last Nimrod R1 was retired in June 2011.
Typical British solution scrap the capability before a replacement is available i.e. Harriers, Nimrod and the same seems to be happening with AAR as the VC10 are retired.
It is down to money but we live in an uncertain world and been an "armchair expert" would argue that intelligence gathering capabilites should be a priority and having no Nimrod MPA, Nimrod R1/Airseeker and potentially losing Sentinel and Shadow aircraft is sheer madness.
Typical British solution scrap the capability before a replacement is available i.e. Harriers, Nimrod and the same seems to be happening with AAR as the VC10 are retired.
It is down to money but we live in an uncertain world and been an "armchair expert" would argue that intelligence gathering capabilites should be a priority and having no Nimrod MPA, Nimrod R1/Airseeker and potentially losing Sentinel and Shadow aircraft is sheer madness.